Dele

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Not sure really how some of you judge football performances. Dele has been good this season.

He has played a different role as a box to box in a midfield 3, with a focus on defensive duties. With Lo Celso and Ndombele back available again, this should allow Dele to play further up the pitch, to use his movement to create space for Son and Kane.

If Dele is in and around the box; he will get goals.
They literally are entrenched into the most bizarre form of negative bias I think I've ever seen with a player, go check out the ratings for the Wolves game, tells you all you need to know (same score as PEH who played 8min + the added time), I mean PEH bossed it with his grand total of 5 passes, 0 duels, 0 tackles, 0 headers, 0 key passes he made in this time, right? Right?
 
2nd most tackles by any player on the pitch
most key passes made by any player on the pitch

But yeah apart from this and the assist for the goal what does he actually do?
I think you have a fair amount of good stuff to say on the whole. But on Dele I am surprised by your continued commitment to a player that has been so far off the pace and standards required for a long time now. You accuse people of having a bizarre form of negative bias towards him. Looking at it from the reverse angle I would say that you have a greater bizarre form of positive bias towards him. He isn’t good enough anymore
 
I think you have a fair amount of good stuff to say on the whole. But on Dele I am surprised by your continued commitment to a player that has been so far off the pace and standards required for a long time now. You accuse people of having a bizarre form of negative bias towards him. Looking at it from the reverse angle I would say that you have a greater bizarre form of positive bias towards him. He isn’t good enough anymore
He's been arguably our best player so far this season.

So to my post above do you think being the most creative player on the pitch whilst also putting in the most tackles is a bad thing?

Do you think that his performance warrants the same rating as PEH with his ONLY contribution in the 6mins plus injury time of 5 passes and a penalty miss? Are you saying this is an accurate reflection of their two performances and that there is in no way whatsoever any form of bias on show?
 
He's been arguably our best player so far this season.

So to my post above do you think being the most creative player on the pitch whilst also putting in the most tackles is a bad thing?

Do you think that his performance warrants the same rating as PEH with his ONLY contribution in the 6mins plus injury time of 5 passes and a penalty miss? Are you saying this is an accurate reflection of their two performances and that there is in no way whatsoever any form of bias on show?
By the same token though is it right to give PEH 2/10 because he didn’t have much influence on the game in the 6 mins he was on? I would say that is more to do with the flawed concept of ranking a player who has only just got on the pitch.
But back to Ali. Has he been our best player this season? Whilst it is early to judge and nobody has really covered themselves in glory I would argue that Lloris, Sanchez, Dier and maybe even Tanganga and Skipp have been more effective. Note that these are mainly defensive players who have been put under pressure ironically due to the inability of the more attacking players,of which Ali is one, to retain the ball and be effective in the opposition half.
I don’t dislike Dele as I think he tries but he is so far removed from the player of 16/17 it’s incredible
 
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Such a shame what’s happened to him . This is now the 3rd manager that looks as though they can’t get a tune out of him …

It’s time to call it a day and let him go
 
By the same token though is it right to give PEH 2/10 because he didn’t have much influence on the game in the 6 mins he was on? I would say that is more to do with the flawed concept of ranking a player who has only just got on the pitch.
But back to Ali. Has he been our best player this season? Whilst it is early to judge and nobody has really covered themselves in glory I would argue that Lloris, Sanchez, Dier and maybe even Tanganga and Skipp have been more effective.
I don’t dislike Dele as I think he tries but he is so far removed from the player of 16/17 it’s incredible
I don't think players who come off the bench for 5mins or whatever should be rated at all (if they happen to assist or score a last min goal then great but still wouldn't warrant a score of more than 2 in my book, they can be lorded for the assist or goal though). Where do you stand on my question of bias being played out here though, you haven't answered the question put to you. Was PEH's 5 passes on par with Dele's performance or not? Is this biased or not?

You make good shouts on Sanchez and Dier and would happily include them in that conversation. I would disagree with Tanganga and Skipp as any sort of contender, although both have put in one MoTM game each so far which has been pleasing.

He can't be the player of 16/17 (a 2nd striker) if he's not playing 2nd striker. Wonder if you would be making the same comparisons of Kane if he were playing in goal now?
 
I don't think players who come off the bench for 5mins or whatever should be rated at all (if they happen to assist or score a last min goal then great but still wouldn't warrant a score of more than 2 in my book, they can be lorded for the assist or goal though). Where do you stand on my question of bias being played out here though, you haven't answered the question put to you. Was PEH's 5 passes on par with Dele's performance or not? Is this biased or not?

You make good shouts on Sanchez and Dier and would happily include them in that conversation. I would disagree with Tanganga and Skipp as any sort of contender, although both have put in one MoTM game each so far which has been pleasing.

He can't be the player of 16/17 (a 2nd striker) if he's not playing 2nd striker. Wonder if you would be making the same comparisons of Kane if he were playing in goal now?
I agree that it’s daft to rate players who have just entered the pitch. When you look at journalists ratings in general anyway half the time you suspect that they didn’t watch the game at all.

I appreciate that he has been used further back this year but when Dele has played further up in recent seasons he has been wasteful, slow and ineffective on the whole. He has often slowed our attacks down allowing opponents to regroup, has often been disposed and looked generally sluggish. He was never quick but he was sharp. I just don’t see him getting back to what he was wherever he plays.

And in answer to whether people show bias towards him I don’t see it. If such bias exists then maybe it’s in frustration at how good he once was. But those days are long gone. And in any case we can all be guilty I guess of being a bit bias. Not meaning to be rude or anything but whilst it’s often good to have the courage of your conviction and stand by your viewpoint do you ever think that maybe when most people’s opinions on a subject are contrary to yours as they appear to be with Dele at present that maybe the bias might be closer to home and that it might be time to reassess your position on the matter?
 
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The best thing Alli has done this year is making a few blocks after giving the ball away.

He has been poor overall and was god awful today. Standing next to Silva while he jumped up for a free header is pathetic.

He offers nothing. Should never start for us again. Can be used in the ECL and League Cup until we can sell him in January.
A bit harsh but I don’t think you’re wrong

Good pass to Harry for his goal on Thursday but little else of note although the effort is there
 
Apart from the assist, I thought he gave the ball away quite a bit, and didn't look particularly robust when challenged. I miss the 'nasty' Dele, he's not the same player since that seems to have been coached out of him.
This might NOT be a popular view but I thought he got physically fucked by Poch and mentally fucked by Jose

Nuno giving him a chance and I can see why but it’s not working yet and a big no from me for the NLD
 
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I agree that it’s daft to rate players who have just entered the pitch. When you look at journalists ratings in general anyway half the time you suspect that they didn’t watch the game at all.

I appreciate that he has been used further back this year but when Dele has played further up in recent seasons he has been wasteful, slow and ineffective on the whole. He has often slowed our attacks down allowing opponents to regroup, has often been disposed and looked generally sluggish. He was never quick but he was sharp. I just don’t see him getting back to what he was wherever he plays.

And in answer to whether people show bias towards him I don’t see it. If such bias exists then maybe it’s in frustration at how good he once was. But those days are long gone. And in any case we can all be guilty I guess of being a bit bias. Not meaning to be rude or anything but whilst it’s often good to have the courage of your conviction and stand by your viewpoint do you ever think that maybe when most people’s opinions on a subject are contrary to yours as they appear to be with Dele at present that maybe the bias might be closer to home and that it might be time to reassess your position on the matter?
100% agree on player ratings, be they on here or in media.

There are loads I've already said about him over other seasons, I won't bring them up here as I fear it's a tad boring and been done to death. So for the sake of freshness, this season is a sound starting point, where he's been played as a clear number 8.

Within this role Nuno's had us play in the opening games of the season a more compact team, more defensive. I feel this was because he didn't have the players available to him to play any other way (Lo Celso, Kane, Ndombele nowhere near the team early doors). He then has had further injuries and COVID related red tape that's impacted his selection but in the last couple of games we've been pressing far higher up the pitch and have started to see more of the ball than our opponent, this ahs coincided with the better players now becoming available for selection but I'd argue still not ready and maybe still in a type of pre-season mode (hence Kane, Ndomble & Lo Celso being selected in the Kangeroo cup for example, again just a theory).

So, in this early phase of a more defensive compact approach, Dele's defensive numbers he has put up have been better than our defensive expect PEH playing also number 8 on the other side of the pitch by comparison. In addition to this he's been getting up and down the pitch more that PEH and has been linking with our attackers (this may be part of the plan BTW, eg have PEH hang back while push Dele up when we have the ball).

Now we've started to see a change in our game, more proactive, pressing higher etc maybe Dele is pushed out of his 8 and his asked to stay higher up the pitch. This is only evidence once so may not transpire, but against Wolves, he was the most advanced player on our team. Was a clear tactic by Nuno as we overloaded the left had side of the pitch in our build-up, which left a lot of space out on the right which was largely where dele was found.

Time will tell if Nuno uses him elsewhere but I also think he's versatile enough to play deep (as demonstrated in the first few games as he is pushed up like against Wolves (where he was the most creative player on the pitch). I don't have a crystal ball on what the longer-term vision Nuno has with how we play but feel that Lo Celso has a large say in the matter, who I think is struggling or at least I'm struggling to fit his piece of the puzzle in the picture. Right now Dele is the fitter, more secure and more versatile player of the too.

I just think people have always struggled with understanding midfielders, their roles and whether they are performing well in them or not. Seen it with high-profile players such as Modric, Dembele, Pogba, Phillips etc. If they aren't designated a specifically well-defined one-dimensional role such as a DM that patrols in front of the defence or is an advanced playmaker they tend to get all the flack.

I'm highly critical of how poor our midfield is without Ndombele playing, Dele is part of that, he can't progress the ball from deep (without Ndombele no one can). This isn't anyone's individual fault though, I don't go around killing them for it, it's just not in any of these players skillsets either dribbling the ball through a crowded midfield or hitting a pinpoint long ball (Winks can do it if he's not pressed, which is why we don't see it because we are still pressed and perhaps oppo know this so would allow the ball to be passed to him then press him as part or their traps). (Skipp has shown he can in a lower level, so there's potential to come from this ball progression part of the game in the future but it's not now that's for sure).

He's been our most constant performer this season, he may (Wolves game is a reference) become one of our most versatile, as a consequence he's been our best player in this very early phase of the season.
 
100% agree on player ratings, be they on here or in media.

There are loads I've already said about him over other seasons, I won't bring them up here as I fear it's a tad boring and been done to death. So for the sake of freshness, this season is a sound starting point, where he's been played as a clear number 8.

Within this role Nuno's had us play in the opening games of the season a more compact team, more defensive. I feel this was because he didn't have the players available to him to play any other way (Lo Celso, Kane, Ndombele nowhere near the team early doors). He then has had further injuries and COVID related red tape that's impacted his selection but in the last couple of games we've been pressing far higher up the pitch and have started to see more of the ball than our opponent, this ahs coincided with the better players now becoming available for selection but I'd argue still not ready and maybe still in a type of pre-season mode (hence Kane, Ndomble & Lo Celso being selected in the Kangeroo cup for example, again just a theory).

So, in this early phase of a more defensive compact approach, Dele's defensive numbers he has put up have been better than our defensive expect PEH playing also number 8 on the other side of the pitch by comparison. In addition to this he's been getting up and down the pitch more that PEH and has been linking with our attackers (this may be part of the plan BTW, eg have PEH hang back while push Dele up when we have the ball).

Now we've started to see a change in our game, more proactive, pressing higher etc maybe Dele is pushed out of his 8 and his asked to stay higher up the pitch. This is only evidence once so may not transpire, but against Wolves, he was the most advanced player on our team. Was a clear tactic by Nuno as we overloaded the left had side of the pitch in our build-up, which left a lot of space out on the right which was largely where dele was found.

Time will tell if Nuno uses him elsewhere but I also think he's versatile enough to play deep (as demonstrated in the first few games as he is pushed up like against Wolves (where he was the most creative player on the pitch). I don't have a crystal ball on what the longer-term vision Nuno has with how we play but feel that Lo Celso has a large say in the matter, who I think is struggling or at least I'm struggling to fit his piece of the puzzle in the picture. Right now Dele is the fitter, more secure and more versatile player of the too.

I just think people have always struggled with understanding midfielders, their roles and whether they are performing well in them or not. Seen it with high-profile players such as Modric, Dembele, Pogba, Phillips etc. If they aren't designated a specifically well-defined one-dimensional role such as a DM that patrols in front of the defence or is an advanced playmaker they tend to get all the flack.

I'm highly critical of how poor our midfield is without Ndombele playing, Dele is part of that, he can't progress the ball from deep (without Ndombele no one can). This isn't anyone's individual fault though, I don't go around killing them for it, it's just not in any of these players skillsets either dribbling the ball through a crowded midfield or hitting a pinpoint long ball (Winks can do it if he's not pressed, which is why we don't see it because we are still pressed and perhaps oppo know this so would allow the ball to be passed to him then press him as part or their traps). (Skipp has shown he can in a lower level, so there's potential to come from this ball progression part of the game in the future but it's not now that's for sure).

He's been our most constant performer this season, he may (Wolves game is a reference) become one of our most versatile, as a consequence he's been our best player in this very early phase of the season.

Hmmm...

Some interesting points and yes, it is about seeking to understand how and what a manager mat be asking of players within a system..

There is also the very accurately pointed out most players can only play a certain way. The very best can adapt but most are what they are and it's a question of how good.

Skipp is one case in point. Can he go from top Championship player to above average PL midfielder? Jury out but good signs amd a long way to go.

On Alli, he has so many possible facets to his game but we remember the aggressive, instinctive goalscorer who played with gay abandon. Those days are long gone and I don't think we are going to see a better version, whatever the change in position. I just can't see the necessary improvement or quality. I get your point about how he might be being asked to play and that he does seem to have some of the energy back.

Ndombele is a fcuking joke mate. I will separate the talent from the application. Pogba, De Bruyne and Kante are the best 3 midfielders in the PL in my book. People slate Pogba but more often than not he is on it physically. You might criticise the mindset but no lack of professionalism. The other 2 need no reference.

In terms of talent Ndombele could be in a quartet but it's a trio.

So yes you are right that he alone can receive, carry, caress, cajole and control but we get what? In the main a diet (wish he would go on one) of mostly indigestible and average fare. I bloody hate seeing such talent go to waste at the best of times but at our club it is akin to treachery.

So a good read mate and some well considered points but ultimately if our players performed closer to their potential it would be so much easier.

In that regard we are as poor as any team because we have enough to be quite a bit better.
 
Deli played his best football when he had Alderweireld pinging balls over his shoulder and he plays his best football in and around the box. Unfortuently, the last two managers having been playing him as a CAM which he is not. We see him more in our box then the oppositions. He’s got some serious stamina though, able to run for the entire game so I can see why Nuno likes him in the team but unfortuently with Skipp there as well, we have two players who are just maintaining the game and not overly contributing to it. Too bad Ndombele and Deli couldn’t meld into one, that would be a serious player. He needs a very particular setup to make it work for him and I agree that perhaps next summer, unless we see a dramatic turnaround, we should be looking to sell.
 
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