Dele

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But he plays at a slow mental pace, his Achilles. Plus he's been sluggish physically for too long to be a 'work in progress', unless he reads my thread in Off Topic on diet foundations to re-ignite that metabolic spark, he's not got the exquisite passing and movement we've seen from LoCelso and NDombele, they unlock Kane and Son much more than Dele is showing capable of, in this team and style.

Shame.
This is it really. Tanguy and Lo Celso are just better releasing the ball in the quick transition style.

Unlike the N’Dombele situation, I’m convinced Jose has no real beef with Dele, he’s just come to the conclusion (correctly in my view) that the squad is full of other players who suit this style better.

he gave Dele More chances than everyone and the team was Unbalanced by it. Dele just hasn’t been able to adjust his role as the team has evolved. He’s lost out just like Winks and Sanchez, whilst someone like Dier has won. It happens.
 
That's NOT commentary mate. That's NOT a breakdown of thoughts. It's no more than a throwaway comment (from a poster that notoriously gets into longwinded posts about players). Because he's an obsession subject of yours, it's triggered you into repeating what you've already written about him.
:mourwhat:

I've no issue in your opinions Toddles, I disagree with you in most areas about him but I enjoy debating them with you. However, he doesn't get mins anymore, there's nothing further to debate that hasn't already been debated. So, forgive me please, I don't wish to spin wheels over him again. Let's wait until there's something concrete to evaluate. Maybe this will be a significant run of games in Kangeroo Cup, FA Cup and EL, rather than just the one or two apps so far or maybe he moves on. But until then it's all been said and done.
Deal, but that in bold ain't gonna happen.

I do have a question though. What would it take to change your opinion of this player? That's not to say that factual things that happened in the past didn't happen but to say, perhaps, you may have had it wrong about the player. For example, if we sell to ManU and it became a Sanchez situation and they got rid to Inter and it because like an Eriksen situation and they got rid to Birmingham City and they got rid to Southend and they got rid to Dagenham and Redbridge and they got rid to Barrow etc etc ad infinitum until he was playing non-league on the Isle of Man. Clearly to a reasonable person upon reflection they would realize they had it wrong. What would make you say you had it wrong? Choose wisely and do me a favor and actually answer this one.
 
Seriously "tap-in's" and "goal hanging"........................OK!!! let's just end this here.


What is obvious watching the highlights reel for Alli is the slow inextricably accumulation of muscle bulk and the loss of fluity as the boys frame becomes a man's. Not sure what our fitness people do for a living but I think it is obvious that it puts a strain on knees and hamstrings. Its happened to Eric Dier and Harry Kane also its weird and it needs to be addressed because I think its behind some of the issues our players have had. Moussa Sissoko is designed by nature to function with the level of muscle he carries im not sure you optimise any of the other three by mimicking him.
 
:mourwhat:


Deal, but that in bold ain't gonna happen.

I do have a question though. What would it take to change your opinion of this player? That's not to say that factual things that happened in the past didn't happen but to say, perhaps, you may have had it wrong about the player. For example, if we sell to ManU and it became a Sanchez situation and they got rid to Inter and it because like an Eriksen situation and they got rid to Birmingham City and they got rid to Southend and they got rid to Dagenham and Redbridge and they got rid to Barrow etc etc ad infinitum until he was playing non-league on the Isle of Man. Clearly to a reasonable person upon reflection they would realize they had it wrong. What would make you say you had it wrong? Choose wisely and do me a favor and actually answer this one.
Well yeah, if he ends up playing for Dagenham and Redbridge next season then I could say, you know what I was wrong about him. But that still doesn't change what he achieved prior.

(The fact though Eriksen is going through a difficult period doesn't mean I or anyone else was wrong about him too, he was simply fantastic for us and proved himself as one of Europe best midfielders. Coutinho (who I never rated as highly as Eriksen but I still rated very highly) is equally going through a tough spell ever since leaving Liverpool but is he seen as a shit? The fact that he went for a ton of money and to Barca and then to Bayern I bet stands him in good stead on how he's viewed but that still doesn't detract from how he played or not played because he spent a lot of the time on the bench. Will Eriksen be viewed as a shit player or a very good player when he hangs up his boots? Will Sanchez go down as a shit player or a very good player? What about Ozil, shit or good?)

There are lots and if's and butts in what you say and will take +10yrs to playout and then evaluate, so not sure you will get an answer from me until his career is over, in order to evaluate it. But I'm not going anywhere.

I'd prefer to watch him play and see what he does and comment on what I see and what happens. I would also prefer to do this with a run of mins to gain a picture, rather than just a good performance against a poor side (Happy to comment if he's selected against several poor sides, not just the once if that makes sense).
 
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What is obvious watching the highlights reel for Alli is the slow inextricably accumulation of muscle bulk and the loss of fluity as the boys frame becomes a man's. Not sure what our fitness people do for a living but I think it is obvious that it puts a strain on knees and hamstrings. Its happened to Eric Dier and Harry Kane also its weird and it needs to be addressed because I think its behind some of the issues our players have had. Moussa Sissoko is designed by nature to function with the level of muscle he carries im not sure you optimise any of the other three by mimicking him.
I get what you are saying but it's really hard to evaluate in just these terms e.g you bring up Kane, who's arguably having his best-ever season which would debunk that theory.

Neither of them is in the realms of Adama Trarore, who I think is simply too big but flip the coin and it could be argued that he's built to be a devastating 45min player, perhaps this is a deliberate decision within his camp???

When I look at Dele I don't see a lad carrying too much bulk, yes his gone from a wirey cross-country type runner to someone with a bigger physique but I wouldn't say it's something that would affect his performance negatively. What may have a bigger impact was/is his hammies??? So specifically dose he still have the ability to bring a high ball down by jumping and raising his leg (big hamstring stretch) above an opponent? This I'd say was a classic Dele thing, a deep ball played over the top of a defence that he would bring down with one touch and shoot (or lay off) with the next touch.
 
Tbh. the medical department from Spurs was a disaster back then and Dazza was one of the biggest victims back then. Anderton was a fine player for us, and doesn't really deserve to be ridiculed for his problems, partly even caused by the club.
AZSpurs What did you disagree with here? That the medical department was a disaster? Or that he was a victim of bad medical treatment?
 


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When I look at Dele I don't see a lad carrying too much bulk, yes his gone from a wirey cross-country type runner to someone with a bigger physique but I wouldn't say it's something that would affect his performance negatively. What may have a bigger impact was/is his hammies??? So specifically dose he still have the ability to bring a high ball down by jumping and raising his leg (big hamstring stretch) above an opponent? This I'd say was a classic Dele thing, a deep ball played over the top of a defence that he would bring down with one touch and shoot (or lay off) with the next touch
I do see a bit bulk in the wrong areas. His shoulders and pecs are unnecessarily large for a footballer, especially in comparison to the rest of his physique. If you look at Son, he's got monster thighs but practically flat chested. You can see this with PEH too, he's got a bit of girth to him, but it's more abs, lats etc.

Dele by contrast has twig legs but visibly large pecs, he works in the gym to have large pecs, I guess for aesthetics.

But as you said, it doesn't impact his ability to do his signature run from a long ball and score, he did it only last season against Bournemouth twice in one game.

What's shocking is his all around game is GONE. Completely gone. I was watching a Kane highlight video the other day, and Dele was involved in so much, he could genuinely thread a pass, score curlers from outside the box, had a good touch, everything was there. He's so shit now, the ball bounces off his knees, indecisive in making a pass, pressing is half-hearted.

I think he's just a child at heart, and he's found a new "passion" with all this esports crap, found new cool "friends" and possibly even become a gaming addict. He's clearly enjoying the fame among the tiktok watching crowd.
 
I do see a bit bulk in the wrong areas. His shoulders and pecs are unnecessarily large for a footballer, especially in comparison to the rest of his physique. If you look at Son, he's got monster thighs but practically flat chested. You can see this with PEH too, he's got a bit of girth to him, but it's more abs, lats etc.

Dele by contrast has twig legs but visibly large pecs, he works in the gym to have large pecs, I guess for aesthetics.

But as you said, it doesn't impact his ability to do his signature run from a long ball and score, he did it only last season against Bournemouth twice in one game.

What's shocking is his all around game is GONE. Completely gone. I was watching a Kane highlight video the other day, and Dele was involved in so much, he could genuinely thread a pass, score curlers from outside the box, had a good touch, everything was there. He's so shit now, the ball bounces off his knees, indecisive in making a pass, pressing is half-hearted.

I think he's just a child at heart, and he's found a new "passion" with all this esports crap, found new cool "friends" and possibly even become a gaming addict. He's clearly enjoying the fame among the tiktok watching crowd.
I agree as I raised the issue guess I would. The poster sited Kane as a reposte to the idea but I don't think that follows, I used Sissoko as an example of a man with the natural inclination to muscle Harry's body may function fine also with this level of density. For me the decline in Dele and Eric coincided with the insta fashion for model footballers. Eric has actually lost a bit of "cut" of late and seems more mobile I watch the goal he scored on his debut and its like a different human being. I think the point you make about Dele's upper body work may well be worth them looking at.
 
Hopefully Dele starts today and with a good performance then given a start against Palace as well. We have a lot of games coming up and it would be nice for Dele to contribute.
 
would like him to start as well, but not sure where he fits in
could play as second striker or just off the CF
can't see him out wide
maybe just doesn't fit into Jose's 4-3-3 system
 
I do see a bit bulk in the wrong areas. His shoulders and pecs are unnecessarily large for a footballer, especially in comparison to the rest of his physique. If you look at Son, he's got monster thighs but practically flat chested. You can see this with PEH too, he's got a bit of girth to him, but it's more abs, lats etc.

Dele by contrast has twig legs but visibly large pecs, he works in the gym to have large pecs, I guess for aesthetics.

But as you said, it doesn't impact his ability to do his signature run from a long ball and score, he did it only last season against Bournemouth twice in one game.

What's shocking is his all around game is GONE. Completely gone. I was watching a Kane highlight video the other day, and Dele was involved in so much, he could genuinely thread a pass, score curlers from outside the box, had a good touch, everything was there. He's so shit now, the ball bounces off his knees, indecisive in making a pass, pressing is half-hearted.

I think he's just a child at heart, and he's found a new "passion" with all this esports crap, found new cool "friends" and possibly even become a gaming addict. He's clearly enjoying the fame among the tiktok watching crowd.
If you stood next to him you will be amazed how skinny he is, it's not bulk mate, just definition. You have to trust me on this. I was no more than 5 feet away from him just before lockdown 1.0. The only adjective to describe him is "skinny" as my Mrs would attest to.

I completely disagree that his game is gone. When he was doing all that stuff in Kane's highlight vids you refer to, he was also miss-controlling the ball, doing nutmegs and flicks that weren't coming off and missing sitters. How he's been used had changed significantly, but he was still doing what he has always done but they are such low % or high-risk things that just as before they didn't come off, the difference is that when he's deployed deeper he doesn't get the chance to attempt those things with regularity, so you're left with two attempted nutmegs/flicks that didn't come off = "didn't do anything", "he's shit" vs 6 attempted flicks/nutmegs and one of them came off and we scored (everybody loves him because it came off). More to it than just this but basically this is how I see it in microcosm.
 
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If you stood next to him you will be amazed how skinny he is, it's not bulk mate, just definition. You have to trust me on this. I was no more than 5 feet away from him just before lockdown 1.0. The only adjective to describe him is "skinny" as my Mrs would attest to.

Yeah - that confused me too.

He has a footballers physique. Defined and toned. He's hardly bulky. And his shoulders and pecs certainly aren't out of the ordinary.

Nor are they reasons for why his performances have declined.
 
Dele and Eric coincided with the insta fashion for model footballers
I agree with Dele, but Eric is the opposite of fashionable. He plays chess with Jan, drinks Mate with Hugo and the Argentinians, and reads about Brexit. He doesn't do the childish crap Dele does.

He just had a lot of injuries, and he'd been gaining weight over several years. Seems to be a thing with some people where by age 23/24 they start to pile on the pounds. He's worked to trim down but when he takes off his top you can see he's not exactly packing a six pack.

We actually have a number of "fatties" in the starting 11, Toby, Dier, Ndombele, Kane, Davies, and Bergwijn are all not as cut as they could be. When you see someone like Lamela, Aurier, Salah, Grealish etc, you can almost see individual stands of muscle. If they got really shredded it would add a little snap to their movements.
 
it's not bulk mate
I didn't say he was bulky, just a little extra in the upper body. He should work on core strength, glutes, and quads. Keep himself nimble but add a bit of stability, lower CG and add a bit of power.

As for his game overall, yes, he did often lose control of the ball in the past, but the ratio of failed to succeeded actions on the pitch is compeletely off. I'm not just talking about flicks and tricks, he used to do a lot of simple through balls from the middle to Kane. He should be ideal for our counter attacking side getting on to long balls, like he did against Chelsea, Everton and Bournemouth.

I can accept he's not very disciplined but he did use to press a lot for us, I remember in our 3-1 win against Sarri's Chelsea, he maked Jorginho out of the game. He also set Son on off on the counter for his wonder goal.
 
I hope for his sake he will pull a Ndombele. Lots of potential but he’s past the point of where natural talent can get you. Now he needs to knuckle down and take it to the next level. Still not sure how he fits into our team but he was playing epic football for a few games at the beginning of Mourinhos tenure so if anyone can make it work, it’s him
 
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