Levy: How long's his surname...I can make an extra £2 a letter remember.
Gil...sorry son, you're costing me money
Is Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink still playing?
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Player Djed Spence
- Thread starter The Fighting Cock
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Levy: How long's his surname...I can make an extra £2 a letter remember.
Gil...sorry son, you're costing me money
Is Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink still playing?
"Some people" love to dream up conspiratorial bullshit.
If have an issue with the function of DOFs then that a different discussion, but their job is to take the lead over players....... IF Conte has subsequently OK'd it (which despite initial reservations, he did) - even if he did put a little distance between him & the player (self preservation) - then the rest it moot.
Klopp didn't want Salah, but the opinion of their recruitment team prevailed. Not a peep from Klopp since.
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imagine to judge a player who hasn't played from 6 months at his first 2 appearances in a different league
Hate to break it to you, but....
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They do that with the coach's input and if Conte was fully on board, why distance himself from the club over this signing? That doesn't make sense.
Because Conte was not fully on board and he wanted everyone to know that he wanted a ready made player in that position and not a “club signing” ie a youngster that needs time to develop. Not turning down a signing doesn’t mean Conte actually wanted him.
The player he actually wanted just arrived at a price of £40m.
Conte had his footballing reasons for not picking Spence and it wasn't the political statement that many suggested it was imo.
I hope Spence learns and improves on loan, defensively he was extremely raw before we signed him and despite training every day with Conte and the coaches he doesn't seem to have improved. He's 22, only 18 months younger than Royal, the penny needs to drop for him soon.
I hope Spence learns and improves on loan, defensively he was extremely raw before we signed him and despite training every day with Conte and the coaches he doesn't seem to have improved. He's 22, only 18 months younger than Royal, the penny needs to drop for him soon.
Don't you think he should have got the player he wanted in the summer, instead of a player he didnt want?
Is there any evidence that Conte wanted Porro, certainly in the summer?
We weren't linked big on right wing backs at all were we?
To be frank, there are a lot of players who haven’t improved under Conte. Conte does not seem to be this super coach with the secret sauce of winning the premier league, he has only one formation / one tactic and if that doesn’t work then he’s lost. It feels like the game has moved on since the days of his last success at Chelsea.
Turning to Spence, with a manager who was only willing to sign an 18 month contract I think the club are well within their rights to look to buy players for the future and who will develop after he has gone. Not all signings can be “right here, right now” signings but you need to mix short and long term.
this is the only signing that Conte has distanced himself from, so you can infer the others are his choice. He’s had practically a whole team added during his time and can’t get a tune out of them.
maybe this post should be for the Conte thread, but I get frustrated people still think that Conte is a coaching / tactical genius when he seems to be just a homesick child with no plan b on the pitch.
Never called him a genius of any type, tactical or otherwise.
I don't agree players haven't improved from where they were under Nuno. Dier and Davies were a complete mess under Nuno, Conte came in and got good performances out of them. Got two new players in who weren't favoured at Juve and did the same. Kane improved, was engaged under Conte in a way he wasn't under Nuno. The whole team improved and got 4th when we were an absolute mess before.
And to be clear I don't think Conte does anything particularly dramatic with players in terms of their core attributes as it's not possible - these are pretty much set in terms of technical ability, their physical attributes, football intelligence etc.
But what he does do is provide a pragmatic tactical system, gives players clear instructions what their role within it is, builds their confidence and pushes them incredibly hard to work hard, get fit, and improve their mentality and attitude - things that can be improved. And he does it in a incredibly driven and intense way.
We have clear evidence of this not just from last season but also this season for the first 10 games.
Then I think two things happened - we started getting injuries to key players, Romero, Benta, Son, Kulu, Rich amongst others, and his own health suffered and the death of people close to him deeply affected him. At this point I think he took his eye off the ball, lost some of his intensity which transferred itself to the players and we've seen a drop in form and results.
I also think he deserves some criticism for his reluctance to rest players like Son and Kulu when both are clearly out of form and some of his substitutions don't always make sense (to me at least).
I agree the club should pursue young potential. And I also think if that potential can follow Conte's instructions closely, work hard, show a fantastic attitude and mentality they'll get their chance, as Skipp and Sess did last season, and Sarr has this season. That's what managers look for and want, do as I ask and show me a great attitude and mentality. I don't think for a minute Conte cares about who signed who and why, he's playing plenty of players who weren't signed during his time. Why would he? He wants to win over and above everything else, his whole football career has been about intensity, hard work, mentality and will to win.
Spence also had two players to contend with which made life harder for him but I do think if he had Emerson's mentality and attitude he would've played more. I don't think the penny's dropped with him yet, hopefully it will in France.
And calling him a homesick child doesn't advance what you're saying at all, bit petty really.
What's the plan b of Pep, Klopp and Arteta btw?
Plan b? Those teams attack in multiple directions but generally threaten through the middle and have going wide and crossing the ball as one way but not the main way for getting the ball into the area. Conte’s obsession with wing backs and crossing makes us very predictable And easy to defend against.
Spurs under Poch would threaten through the middle through Dele and Eriksen but also then had wide players to provide an alternative route to goal or at least stretch the defence. We don’t do that with 2 DM/box to box types deployed. Conte chooses no threat through the middle and plays Kulu out wide even though his preferred and probably best position is no.10.
that is what I mean by no Plan B. He won’t shuffle players positions or make timely subs when his route 1 to goal isn’t working.
Spence is probably still finding form and confidence after sitting out a season and finding out Conte rated him worse than Emerson and Doherty.
Saying that, what was the point in bringing in a win now Manager like Conte then trying to give him youngsters to work with?
Spence may not end up a failed signing but signing him when he was signed for a coach like Conte was an epic fail. Most likely driven by budget.
Saying that, what was the point in bringing in a win now Manager like Conte then trying to give him youngsters to work with?
Spence may not end up a failed signing but signing him when he was signed for a coach like Conte was an epic fail. Most likely driven by budget.
I hear you but don't really agree. Just because we play wing backs that doesn't mean it's our only route to goal at all. We've scored 5 goals recently against Fulham, Preston and City that came through the middle of the pitch. In fact our two wide forwards actually tuck inside and play as inside forwards which gives space for our wing backs to stretch the pitch. Conte has been criticized by many on here for asking Son to play this exact role.
We could go 433 for example but I don't think our centre halves are good enough and would be exposed - Toby and Jan they are not.
Even under Poch at times and often during our best season under him (2017) we played an almost identical system. The difference is we had far better players then and far less injuries, plus a manager who was fit, healthy and focussed and without personal tragedy affecting him.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38447903 (look at our line up and formation here for example).
I understand and agree to some extent that Conte could be more flexible but I think he's still trying hard to embed his system, not all the players have fully nailed it yet and he doesn't want to fuck around too much as a result. People might wonder how long he needs but it took Poch until his third season before he nailed it, it's taken Arteta 3 years, Klopp took 3 years, even Pep with an open cheque book took 2 years to fully nail it at City. This is Conte's first full season and with a squad that still needs to be improved. And as I pointed out, his system works well in terms of results and points when he has most of his key players fit and he is fully focussed.
I agree his subs could be improved at times amongst other things.
We need him back, healthy and fully focussed, there's still over a third of the season to go and we need to replicate our early season form and form of last season.
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"Input" yes; but don't confuse a DOF with a head scout........ DOF is above the manager in the recruitment pecking order... So long as the working relationship is harmonious, there will be a degree of give and take.
No-one claimed he was "fully on board"! (......As per my example; Klopp wasn't fully on board with Salah either).
"Fully" on board isn't always a pre-requisite....... Especially not with a young player..... There's not an immediate demand to roll him out as a starter; just an agreement to coach the kid........ If Spence is thought not to be good enough after a genuine attempt to coach him (after longer than 6 months and roughly 10 mins of gametime would have been nice mind!), then Conte gets to play that card next time he and Fab are at somewhat of an impasse over the recruitment of a particular player.
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There seems to be a bit of a crossover with the people complaining about the Spence signing and those complaining about the lack of long term strategy...
We should always have one eye on medium to long term transfers and with that in mind you have to accept that these players won't always hit the ground running- sometimes the manager will be able to use them straight away, sometimes they'll need to be sent on loan until they develop further, sometimes they will be duds - it is what it is. Conte probably would have considered Sarr a club signing as well if he had come in that summer, doesn't mean the deal shouldn't have been done.
We should always have one eye on medium to long term transfers and with that in mind you have to accept that these players won't always hit the ground running- sometimes the manager will be able to use them straight away, sometimes they'll need to be sent on loan until they develop further, sometimes they will be duds - it is what it is. Conte probably would have considered Sarr a club signing as well if he had come in that summer, doesn't mean the deal shouldn't have been done.
Spence is no Salah, so in the end Conte was stuck with a player that's not good enough for a position he really needs quality in. I'm sure doing such a thing would disrupt the working relationship, it has in the past with other coaches we've had.