It will start the ball rolling all over Europe Spain/Portugal, Sweden/Norway/Denmark.
Maybe but leagues in other countries are more sustainable so might not be as necessary.
Interesting proposals.
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It will start the ball rolling all over Europe Spain/Portugal, Sweden/Norway/Denmark.
Belgium isn't a real country anyways. If they want to merge then by all means, let them.Its the beginning of the European super league. Honestly shocked to see so many content with this occurrence. This is the proverbial leak in the dam...once you allow UEFA the precedent of recognizing non-national leagues there is only one direction they're interested in moving.
:vertna:Belgium isn't a real country anyways. If they want to merge then by all means, let them.
Belgium is fucking weird, man. Look it up; it's not a real country, or rather it wasn't before it was drawn up in the aftermath of the Napoleonic to contain France.:vertna:
So at which point in time must a nation have had autonomy and defined borders to qualify as "real" then?Belgium is fucking weird, man. Look it up; it's not a real country, or rather it wasn't before it was drawn up in the aftermath of the Napoleonic to contain France.
Belgium in that sense has a bit in common with the entirely fictitious nations drawn up in Africa and the Middle East by the Colonial Powers and the victorious Allied powers after WW1 and WW2.
My understanding is that it's a belief that is widespread among the Belgians themselves, and that many feel that it is inevitable that the country splits in two.
In particular, I remember an interview with Vertonghen a number of years back, when they asked him about the great amount of Belgian talent coming through the Premier League, and in particular how his relationship with Eden Hazard was now that they were playing for rival clubs, and his response was basically "I don't know Eden very well at all, we don't even speak the same language. He's basically French while I am Flemish."
Language was just an example.So at which point in time must a nation have had autonomy and defined borders to qualify as "real" then?
I don't think, as Americans, we really ought to be using language as a defining characteristic of nation status.
To be fair, you're not talking about topics that are very different than what other conglomerated states decendant from the HRE have gone through. Italy and Germany didn't have overly developed "national" identities until very recently, and still have disparate regional cultures often times resentful of the collective national association. Spain is fairly fractured as well with Basques and Catalans. Nationalism, in general, in Europe is very different and largely a product of modern nations which are quilted together from historically separate feudal kingdoms.Language was just an example.
As far as how long it takes, I think the answer to that is longer than it has taken so far, considering Belgians frequently consider the idea of a Belgian national identity to be a joke, or at least very hollow. Belgitude - Wikipedia
I mean, this is a country in which the political and ethnic separatists that want to secede from the country to create an entirely new country is not an ethnic minority, but rather the Flemings who are the dominant cultural and economic force in the country. It's almost like Shanghai announcing that the Han would break away from China to create a new nation...
No, I'm saying Belgium isn't a real country because Belgians themselves largely don't consider it to be one, and the idea of a Belgian national identity they also consider to be largely a joke.To be fair, you're not talking about topics that are very different than what other conglomerated states decendant from the HRE have gone through. Italy and Germany didn't have overly developed "national" identities until very recently, and still have disparate regional cultures often times resentful of the collective national association. Spain is fairly fractured as well with Basques and Catalans. Nationalism, in general, in Europe is very different and largely a product of modern nations which are quilted together from historically separate feudal kingdoms.
Saying Belgium isn't a country because they don't sing the national anthem at teeball and wave flags from their pickups...nah.
I think you're overstating the "lack of National identity", my main point. A 10 on the nationalism scale in Europe would barely rate a 5 on the US nationalism scale. Belgium is probably a 6 on the Europe scale, but they don't find the idea of a Belgian state as some sort of joke.No, I'm saying Belgium isn't a real country because Belgians themselves largely don't consider it to be one, and the idea of a Belgian national identity they also consider to be largely a joke.
Those other things you've mentioned just simply haven't happened yet in Belgium, so you can't make the argument that it's inevitable and therefore we should treat the situation as being similar, which it isn't.
There is a very real probability that Belgium will be dissolved within the next 8-12 years because of the issues that I've mentioned. With that issue looming on the horizon, I'm really not interested in carrying forward the conversation. I'm pretty comfortable with my position, and I think it's based in fact and their own self-determined national feelings.I think you're overstating the "lack of National identity", my main point. A 10 on the nationalism scale in Europe would barely rate a 5 on the US nationalism scale. Belgium is probably a 6 on the Europe scale, but they don't find the idea of a Belgian state as some sort of joke.
Its a different culture, but saying they aren't a real country? No way.
What ever happened to @Belgian_Spur ?
Surely they must be. They have their own waffles after all.Belgium isn't a real country anyways. If they want to merge then by all means, let them.
I smell a wager there.There is a very real probability that Belgium will be dissolved within the next 8-12 years because of the issues that I've mentioned. With that issue looming on the horizon, I'm really not interested in carrying forward the conversation. I'm pretty comfortable with my position, and I think it's based in fact and their own self-determined national feelings.
If either you or I are still active on this forum 12 years from now...I smell a wager there.
Don't be a quitter.If either you or I are still active on this forum 12 years from now...
What, do you really want to reignite the powder keg of Europe?All the former Yugoslav states forming a single league?