English talent

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Still not convinced Southgate is the man to use these players, he is a good defensive coach but when you have Foden, Grealish, Bellingham etc you need to be playing to your strengths and not sure he can do that.
He’s a good manager but not an experienced tactician. He could do with having someone like Wenger as his number 2 to promote a more attacking style - the Yang to his defensive Ying

I think he’s a thoughtful and reflective person so he is more likely to consider a more proactive style than say a staunch, ‘stuck in his ways’ dinosaur like Jose. But a number 2 is a must IMO
 

Tomo

Supporter
He’s a good manager but not an experienced tactician. He could do with having someone like Wenger as his number 2 to promote a more attacking style - the Yang to his defensive Ying

I’d take Wenger as full manager TBH. International level has a much lower standard of management to where Mancini looks brilliant which is understandable as the glory and money is in club management.

Wenger would be able to utilise our attacking talents effectively and at international level he will never face a Guardiola or Klopp level manager. It would be a shame for England to waste another generation of brilliant talents. We did it with Hoddle, did it with Scholes and Gerrard and we don’t want to be doing it with Foden and Bellingham.
 
Yeh, Chelsea are doing this a lot. Should be banned or a limit on the number like loans
I do agree with you but, in the end, those players who do join them for the money also "deserve" that their careers get halted.
Chelski does not have a good youth development track record and the world knows it. The same goes with Real Madrid. Yet top-talent lines up to join them.
 
I do agree with you but, in the end, those players who do join them for the money also "deserve" that their careers get halted.
Chelski does not have a good youth development track record and the world knows it. The same goes with Real Madrid. Yet top-talent lines up to join them.
They have a great record of getting loans and higher wages for the players on those loans.

They do also have quite a good record of youth to first team both at Chelsea and elsewhere

Real Madrid also have a good record of youth to first team, just not at RM.
 
Still not convinced Southgate is the man to use these players, he is a good defensive coach but when you have Foden, Grealish, Bellingham etc you need to be playing to your strengths and not sure he can do that.

I think he's already shown that he isn't. But he does deserve to go on his terms though. You can't argue with his record, or the fact that he's actually got the players looking like they enjoy playing for their country instead of it being a chore. He's done wonderful, but his style just isn't suited to where our main potential in the team lies.
 

CSWY

Supporter
Up The Spurs! Slava Ukraini! 🇬🇧🇺🇦🇬🇧🇺🇦🇬🇧🇺🇦
Sad to see nobody from Spurs really in that bracket.

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Yeh, Chelsea are doing this a lot. Should be banned or a limit on the number like loans
Buy back clauses should be banned. If you believe in a player, keep him and give him a shot. If you sell a player, you sell him. If you sign him back, fine, but it should have to be a competitive signing.
 
The player has to consent to the repurchase, right?
They'd be signing a new contract so I would guess? Unless they're somehow contractually obligated per the original agreement, which could be entirely plausible I guess?

Either way, they just allow these clubs to utilize the rest of the football world as minor league farm clubs. I'm not a fan of loans, either. If you want a player, play them, otherwise you let them go.
 
They'd be signing a new contract so I would guess? Unless they're somehow contractually obligated per the original agreement, which could be entirely plausible I guess?

Either way, they just allow these clubs to utilize the rest of the football world as minor league farm clubs. I'm not a fan of loans, either. If you want a player, play them, otherwise you let them go.
Not to wind you up, but where's the "it's inevitable, football is a fallen game, we must accept our cynical overlords" attitude about this as opposed to making a closed shop of European competition?
 
Not to wind you up, but where's the "it's inevitable, football is a fallen game, we must accept our cynical overlords" attitude about this as opposed to making a closed shop of European competition?
Oh don't get me wrong, banning loans and buy backs isn't going to fix football. Not in the least. But it forces clubs like Chelsea to pay market prices rather than gaming the system. They, however, can and will pay that market price, and it won't really make much of a difference but maybe a little more of the money trickles down.

Equalizing player development is another hallmark of a closed system, though.
 
Oh don't get me wrong, banning loans and buy backs isn't going to fix football. Not in the least. But it forces clubs like Chelsea to pay market prices rather than gaming the system. They, however, can and will pay that market price, and it won't really make much of a difference but maybe a little more of the money trickles down.

Equalizing player development is another hallmark of a closed system, though.
I more meant that if we can make positive progress in this regard, why not have a more robust sense of the possible in making progress elsewhere?
 
I more meant that if we can make positive progress in this regard, why not have a more robust sense of the possible in making progress elsewhere?
Don't want to derail another thread on yet again the same topic.

To summarize, centuries of free market capitalism proves that in a free and open market the system only functions for wealth aggregation. It doesn't matter what obstacles you put in the way, the market will find a way to accomplish its natural tendency towards wealth aggregation. To think thank football is immune to this because its sport is naive.
 
Don't want to derail another thread on yet again the same topic.

To summarize, centuries of free market capitalism proves that in a free and open market the system only functions for wealth aggregation. It doesn't matter what obstacles you put in the way, the market will find a way to accomplish its natural tendency towards wealth aggregation. To think thank football is immune to this because its sport is naive.
There's a slipperiness to the way you use "free market capitalism" that drives me crazy, but you're right, best just to leave it.

For whatever it's worth, I think buybacks and sell-on clauses and the like end up aiding player power, lubricating their ability to move freely. Reasonable people can disagree on whether that's an important value or not, I suppose.
 
One name I missed out originally is that former Chelsea lad that's at Southampton, Livramento. Looks a very good prospect. He only has Walker, James, Trippier, Alexander-Arnold, Justin, Cash and Lamptey to compete with in regards to his England prospects.
 

Airfixx

Death to petro-murder-ball sports-washing.
I think he's already shown that he isn't. But he does deserve to go on his terms though. You can't argue with his record, or the fact that he's actually got the players looking like they enjoy playing for their country instead of it being a chore. He's done wonderful, but his style just isn't suited to where our main potential in the team lies.

What do you mean?

FA won't sack him before the WC..... Will they bin him off if we don't win? .....Or will they give him another 'vote of confidence" contact extension before the tournament as is somewhat common FA behaviour?

Even though I don't think we can explicitly expect a WC win. I would very much like a fresh start after the tournament regardless. On the flipside; win it and they'll let him stay as long as he likes.
 
What do you mean?

FA won't sack him before the WC..... Will they bin him off if we don't win? .....Or will they give him another 'vote of confidence" contact extension before the tournament as is somewhat common FA behaviour?

Even though I don't think we can explicitly expect a WC win. I would very much like a fresh start after the tournament regardless. On the flipside; win it and they'll let him stay as long as he likes.

I mean he's very, very unlikely to be sacked, so he deserves to leave when he wants to, on his own terms. Whether that's in 6 months or 18 months. A poor tournament is all it takes sometimes for a manager to be sacked but Southate, based on what he's done since he took the job, I don't think that goes for him.

He's an intelligent enough bloke so hopefully he knows the next step is making us into more of an attacking force.
 

Airfixx

Death to petro-murder-ball sports-washing.
I mean he's very, very unlikely to be sacked, so he deserves to leave when he wants to, on his own terms. Whether that's in 6 months or 18 months. A poor tournament is all it takes sometimes for a manager to be sacked but Southate, based on what he's done since he took the job, I don't think that goes for him.

I don't see why it shouldn't and certainly not alongside the principal tha he can leave when he wants.... Fair enough, if we come close again, maybe the FA choose to keep him but as far as I'm concerned international management is a cyclical job and any manager should be reviewed based upon how they fair at that tournament..... Which is why it was ludicrous they way they gave him a new deal on the run up to the last WC.

He's an intelligent enough bloke so hopefully he knows the next step is making us into more of an attacking force.

.........Or he might think "EC final is pretty good; if it ain't broke don't fix it".
 
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