For all of you, Poch needs time

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He needs time to bed in the new signings, no doubt.

He shouldn’t need any time to understand that Wanyama, as good as he once was, is now a washed up player who has no business being on the pitch. His last appearance of note was Ajax away where he was dragged off at HT after letting them rip us to shreds in the middle, why is he still involved in the match day squads, never mind being our first choice sub for a big away game?

Why are we still playing the midfield diamond despite it being blindingly obvious that our ageing defense and limited midfielders cannot manage games in that system? If you want to score a goal all you have to do is walk past our midfield.

Why are Lucas, Dier and Davies being completely ignored while the people taking their minutes are playing like shit? Why is Eriksen still trusted to produce magic in these circumstances? Why aren’t Skipp, Parrott and Tanganga getting involved if he doesn’t trust the seniors on the bench?

Some of these things don’t need time to change, they need to change right now. He keeps going on about this being a weak squad and in need of a rebuild but he’s wheeling out Wanyama and Eriksen? Just stop playing them. He is being so stubborn that it can only end in disaster. Where is the Poch who so coolly threw Kaboul, Adebayor, Capoue, etc out of the first team? He’s either gone soft and isn’t willing to be brutal with his own players (as opposed to AVBs leftovers) or he is not actually looking at the reality of our performances. Time isn’t going to change who he is. If he can’t whip the team into shape in a moment like this then he never will. He has to deliver big changes immediately before the season gets away from us.
 
Kekerinho

Kekerinho

ENIC COCKROACHES OUT
He needs time because rebuilding takes time. And the process has already been delayed. Last summer when we didn't get in anyone. We have players who said loud and clear that they want out. Our first team still relies on those players after 2 seasons, can you believe it? We can't and won't replace them in a single transfer window. We have just replaced Dembele with someone who still needs time to adjust to a much more demanding league. Add in the fact that three of our summer signings are out (two injured, another loaned back to a club that doesn't even use him anymore) and there's the result. We're still using the last season's players. The same players that got us in the UCL final yes, but the same players who had an atrocious run of results at the end of the season. I don't know how people expect different results when the players are the same.

Poch needs time. One season, two seasons, we have to stick with him. He needs our support, the fans' support. I don't think another manager can perform significantly better with the crop of players we have now, because the players are not in it with their heart, they are not playing for the badge anymore. You can't recommit a player to a club if his head has been turned.
 
All you fucks talk about 'the players should be loyal' 'the players aren't loyal' 'we need players loyal to the club' then one bad start to the season and you call for Poch's head.. he has more than earnt loyalty and patience from the fans, you folk have got short attention spans just want to fuck shit up and see a shiny new thing in the dugout!
 
Tomo said:
He had time, he got us 4 top 4 finishes and nearly won the league and Champions League on basically no money while competing against money bag clubs like City, Chelsea and not to mention huge clubs like. Liverpool and United.

We now have a squad that is in some areas past it and needs surgery, that’s a long term process. Unless you have a manager that you think we could realistically get who can ‘take us to the next level’ I am not sure where you are going.
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The greatest nearly man in world football.

Seriously please stop going on about revenue because it is so ignorant it beyond belief.

It’s doesn’t matter that the likes of United, Woolwich Chelsea or Liverpool have greater revenues than us. We have had a greater squad than those clubs for the majority of his time at the club.

We have one of the most valuable squads in world football - we couldn’t purchase such a team and yet here it is so how do you account for that then?

We have the A.Madrid , Dortmund model whereby we have adopted an alternative path to building an elite team. And it worked it’s just that we didn’t have an elite manager than Dortmund had with Klopp or Madrid with Simeone to capitalise on this.

It’s been a squandered by a manager who clearly isn’t good enough at the elite level - time and time again he always falls short. Much like Redknapp he has been vastly elevated above his ability and it’s interesting to see how the claims about him being responsible for the likes of Kane, Ali, Eriksen but seemingly bears any accountability for the new generation.
 
The Hood said:
The greatest nearly man in world football.

Seriously please stop going on about revenue because it is so ignorant it beyond belief.

It’s doesn’t matter that the likes of United, Woolwich Chelsea or Liverpool have greater revenues than us. We have had a greater squad than those clubs for the majority of his time at the club.

We have one of the most valuable squads in world football - we couldn’t purchase such a team and yet here it is so how do you account for that then?

We have the A.Madrid , Dortmund model whereby we have adopted an alternative path to building an elite team. And it worked it’s just that we didn’t have an elite manager than Dortmund had with Klopp or Madrid with Simeone to capitalise on this.

It’s been a squandered by a manager who clearly isn’t good enough at the elite level - time and time again he always falls short. Much like Redknapp he has been vastly elevated above his ability and it’s interesting to see how the claims about him being responsible for the likes of Kane, Ali, Eriksen but seemingly bears any accountability for the new generation.
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And who developed this squad. the likes of Rose, Verts even Dembele where a complete mess under AVB and Sherwood, he got rid of the deadwood and developed our players. People have very short memories.

Not only that but so many of our player like Dier, Dele and Eriksen with clear flaws in their games for the most part due to our way of playing got around it. Even Toby alluded a few seasons back about the team needing to be at 100% or it was average which I thought was harsh at the time but I understood the point he was making.

If you want to know how good our team is player for player talk to a neutral fan, all fans overrate their squads and we are the same. Not saying we don’t have world class players and for me Kane is truly world class.

This is not some golden team handed to an idiot, this is a team built up and improved dramatically both individually and collectively and now it’s coming to the end of its cycle with players aging or wanting new challenges.

We have bought late in the day and it could take a quarter to half a season to truly see the benefits of Lo Celso, Ndombele and Sessegnon. But rebuilding is hard and while yes Klopp is a brilliant manager we wouldn’t be replacing Poch with Klopp but rather Poch with Howe which for me ain’t an improvement.

Had we started the rebuild 2 seasons ago when we should of we wouldn’t be here but we had a giant stadium to build and pay for. We are now playing catch up and it’s clear it’s taken it’s toll on the coaching staff and players alike.
 
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theromanianjackass said:
He needs time because rebuilding takes time. And the process has already been delayed. Last summer when we didn't get in anyone. We have players who said loud and clear that they want out. Our first team still relies on those players after 2 seasons, can you believe it? We can't and won't replace them in a single transfer window. We have just replaced Dembele with someone who still needs time to adjust to a much more demanding league. Add in the fact that three of our summer signings are out (two injured, another loaned back to a club that doesn't even use him anymore) and there's the result. We're still using the last season's players. The same players that got us in the UCL final yes, but the same players who had an atrocious run of results at the end of the season. I don't know how people expect different results when the players are the same.

Poch needs time. One season, two seasons, we have to stick with him. I don't think another manager can perform significantly better with the crop of players we have now, because the players are not in it with their heart, they are not playing for the badge anymore. You can't recommit a player to a club if his head has been turned.
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He's had enough time. Next...👀
 
The Hood said:
The longest serving Premier league manager needs time?

You cannot make it -I love the excuse wheel, I can’t wait to see what absurd excuse it will land on the next.
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He had time, he got us 4 top 4 finishes and nearly won the league and Champions League on basically no money while competing against money bag clubs like City, Chelsea and not to mention huge clubs like. Liverpool and United.

We now have a squad that is in some areas past it and needs surgery, that’s a long term process. Unless you have a manager that you think we could realistically get who can ‘take us to the next level’ I am not sure where you are going.
 
Lickher said:
I apologize for what I said, we clearly have a difference of opinion. I can say with certainty Poch is our best option by far at the moment and I think there is a lot to say for the fact the man has earned the patience and respect of the fans. Never in a million years did I think I would see this great club in a Champions League final and for all that glory and now these reactions , it hurts my soul that people can have such little respect for Poch and what he has achieved with the club and the players.
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FFS .....No you can't. That's just your opinion. Why do people constantly try to pass off their viewpoint as factual. We also do not know how things would turn out if someone else was appointed, it's just pure speculation so do not try to pretend otherwise.

In my opinion
He's had enough time and the squad is disintegrating in front of our eyes. We need someone to come in with a fresh look at what's happening and shake things up.
Familiarity breeds contempt
 
JohnH said:
He's had enough time. Next...👀
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We needed 2 transfer windows to replace one player Dembele with one not ready yet for the PL on the evidence of his performances. You can imagine the time needed, on this rate none of us will be around. Therefore turn the page.
 
JohnH said:
A very eloquent post...🙃

The CL final was the final straw for me. So before the start to this season, the same as many others.
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The CL final, mate we ain’t bloody Liverpool or Barca, we have no divine right to even ever get to a final and it’s not something I imagined we’d ever do. If people think getting rid of Poch and we will fly to trophies like the Champions League then we’d better hope the likes of Simeone are ready to take over.
 
Lickher said:
All you fucks talk about 'the players should be loyal' 'the players aren't loyal' 'we need players loyal to the club' then one bad start to the season and you call for Poch's head.. he has more than earnt loyalty and patience from the fans, you folk have got short attention spans just want to fuck shit up and see a shiny new thing in the dugout!
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Watch out everybody we have a new realest bestest fan here.

So progressive, so enlightened, he transcends us simple supporters.
 
JohnH said:
Posted on another thread.

Poch Current Form.
36 games, 16 wins, 5 draws, 15 losses.
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That's shockingly poor for a team with top 4 aspirations let alone challenging for titles.

You can spin it all you want but a lot of responsibility rests with Poch. Losing almost half your games for this long a period is unacceptable and we have become a soft team that is easy to beat
 
Incomplete_usernam said:
I am not "lying" what I am saying is, whilst he is our owner and in the position he is in, business will always come first.

The lie that our fans tell themselves is that him being a fan means that his goal is for us to win trophies at any cost and that's his goal for us.

That simply isn't the case, the job comes before the passion with Levy, it always has and always will.
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It would be interesting if a shady Sheik came in and offered twice the market value for the club. I don't doubt that Levy would be reluctant to sell, not wanting to see the club fall into the wrong hands and end what must be a dream job for him, but at the end of the day of course he would sell. It's his job and if he didn't do it properly then someone else would be appointed that would. He's not a monster, just a man doing his job the best he can
 
High intensity play requires a complete buy-in from everyone involved. That buy-in has been missing (with exceptions) since last Christmas. If you look at Klopp and Guardiola and their management cycles, they just move on before the players start to rebel. They understand that they can't manage the same club in the same way for a dynasty because the levels they demand are built for short to medium term success.

Our players are now starting to rebel and he doesn't seem able to come up with a long term solution (a series of "clear-the-air" talks isn't long term). Add to the mix what seems to be a naughty step for certain players and other reasons that he can't control (salary / contract shenanigans), it's no wonder the pressers have been pissy at best.

Big month ahead but if we don't have the new blood bedded in by the end of November then I think it's going to get messy.
 
Mick Cooper said:
They are obviously poor- because the the club was so much better before their arrival, we were battering everything in our path.
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But the point is that we got found out. Playing pretty much the same starting 11 and tactics for 4 seasons has left us rather predictable; and this is compounded with Kane's lack of pace. We are unable to take defenses by surprise and we are unable to provide service to Kane when he does finally make it into the box.

Of course, dropping Kane is not the answer.

We need to learn how to defend, lure teams into attacking and then smash them on the counter whilst they struggle to adopt their defensive formation.

Unless Alli and Eriksen hit a run of form, we simply are not good enough to open up well organised defenses on a regular basis. We cannot rely every game on Son / Moura or Kane to dribble round 2 players and pull off a 30 yard strike to save the day. I want to see some simple tap-ins created by clever passing.
 
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