For all of you, Poch needs time

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Tomo said:
He had time, he got us 4 top 4 finishes and nearly won the league and Champions League on basically no money while competing against money bag clubs like City, Chelsea and not to mention huge clubs like. Liverpool and United.

We now have a squad that is in some areas past it and needs surgery, that’s a long term process. Unless you have a manager that you think we could realistically get who can ‘take us to the next level’ I am not sure where you are going.
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The greatest nearly man in world football.

Seriously please stop going on about revenue because it is so ignorant it beyond belief.

It’s doesn’t matter that the likes of United, Woolwich Chelsea or Liverpool have greater revenues than us. We have had a greater squad than those clubs for the majority of his time at the club.

We have one of the most valuable squads in world football - we couldn’t purchase such a team and yet here it is so how do you account for that then?

We have the A.Madrid , Dortmund model whereby we have adopted an alternative path to building an elite team. And it worked it’s just that we didn’t have an elite manager than Dortmund had with Klopp or Madrid with Simeone to capitalise on this.

It’s been a squandered by a manager who clearly isn’t good enough at the elite level - time and time again he always falls short. Much like Redknapp he has been vastly elevated above his ability and it’s interesting to see how the claims about him being responsible for the likes of Kane, Ali, Eriksen but seemingly bears any accountability for the new generation.
 
Lickher said:
All you fucks talk about 'the players should be loyal' 'the players aren't loyal' 'we need players loyal to the club' then one bad start to the season and you call for Poch's head.. he has more than earnt loyalty and patience from the fans, you folk have got short attention spans just want to fuck shit up and see a shiny new thing in the dugout!
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Watch out everybody we have a new realest bestest fan here.

So progressive, so enlightened, he transcends us simple supporters.
 
JohnH said:
Mum 'jokes'? Point proved, just a child.

For the record my Mother died 2 months ago.
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I apologize for what I said, we clearly have a difference of opinion. I can say with certainty Poch is our best option by far at the moment and I think there is a lot to say for the fact the man has earned the patience and respect of the fans. Never in a million years did I think I would see this great club in a Champions League final and for all that glory and now these reactions , it hurts my soul that people can have such little respect for Poch and what he has achieved with the club and the players.
 
theromanianjackass said:
Parody are your posts you smartass donkey. How is the manager at fault if a player decides he wants to leave the club?
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He is not - his job is to get the best out of that player whilst they are there like Redknapp did with Modric.

And which player are you talking about exactly? None of them are playing to anywhere near best with major regression with likes of Ali, Eriksen and Dier.
 
theromanianjackass said:
Parody are your posts you smartass donkey. How is the manager at fault if a player decides he wants to leave the club?
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Because they get to fa cup semi final and he announces vorm is in goal infront of them?
Or they see a teammate score a hat trick in a semi then see a man who can barely walk start in place of him.
They are the sort of managerial decisions that might make a player think i ain't winning fuck all with him in charge i am off
 
I dreamt tonight that Man United lost 5-0 to Villa at home.. And the fans were screaming for Ole to f*** off. Which isn’t much of an unlikely scenario.

So even if we’re on a poor form, it could have been worse.
If we get top 4 and some good cup results I’m happy for Poch to stay.
 
The Hood said:
The greatest nearly man in world football.

Seriously please stop going on about revenue because it is so ignorant it beyond belief.

It’s doesn’t matter that the likes of United, Woolwich Chelsea or Liverpool have greater revenues than us. We have had a greater squad than those clubs for the majority of his time at the club.

We have one of the most valuable squads in world football - we couldn’t purchase such a team and yet here it is so how do you account for that then?

We have the A.Madrid , Dortmund model whereby we have adopted an alternative path to building an elite team. And it worked it’s just that we didn’t have an elite manager than Dortmund had with Klopp or Madrid with Simeone to capitalise on this.

It’s been a squandered by a manager who clearly isn’t good enough at the elite level - time and time again he always falls short. Much like Redknapp he has been vastly elevated above his ability and it’s interesting to see how the claims about him being responsible for the likes of Kane, Ali, Eriksen but seemingly bears any accountability for the new generation.
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And who developed this squad. the likes of Rose, Verts even Dembele where a complete mess under AVB and Sherwood, he got rid of the deadwood and developed our players. People have very short memories.

Not only that but so many of our player like Dier, Dele and Eriksen with clear flaws in their games for the most part due to our way of playing got around it. Even Toby alluded a few seasons back about the team needing to be at 100% or it was average which I thought was harsh at the time but I understood the point he was making.

If you want to know how good our team is player for player talk to a neutral fan, all fans overrate their squads and we are the same. Not saying we don’t have world class players and for me Kane is truly world class.

This is not some golden team handed to an idiot, this is a team built up and improved dramatically both individually and collectively and now it’s coming to the end of its cycle with players aging or wanting new challenges.

We have bought late in the day and it could take a quarter to half a season to truly see the benefits of Lo Celso, Ndombele and Sessegnon. But rebuilding is hard and while yes Klopp is a brilliant manager we wouldn’t be replacing Poch with Klopp but rather Poch with Howe which for me ain’t an improvement.

Had we started the rebuild 2 seasons ago when we should of we wouldn’t be here but we had a giant stadium to build and pay for. We are now playing catch up and it’s clear it’s taken it’s toll on the coaching staff and players alike.
 
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Karl August said:
I dreamt tonight that Man United lost 5-0 to Villa at home.. And the fans were screaming for Ole to f*** off. Which isn’t much of an unlikely scenario.

So even if we’re on a poor form, it could have been worse.
If we get top 4 and some good cup results I’m happy for Poch to stay.
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It could happen if it weren't for the fact that Aston Villa play at the emirates today ;)
 
The Hood said:
The greatest nearly man in world football.

Seriously please stop going on about revenue because it is so ignorant it beyond belief.

It’s doesn’t matter that the likes of United, Woolwich Chelsea or Liverpool have greater revenues than us. We have had a greater squad than those clubs for the majority of his time at the club.

We have one of the most valuable squads in world football - we couldn’t purchase such a team and yet here it is so how do you account for that then?

We have the A.Madrid , Dortmund model whereby we have adopted an alternative path to building an elite team. And it worked it’s just that we didn’t have an elite manager than Dortmund had with Klopp or Madrid with Simeone to capitalise on this.

It’s been a squandered by a manager who clearly isn’t good enough at the elite level - time and time again he always falls short. Much like Redknapp he has been vastly elevated above his ability and it’s interesting to see how the claims about him being responsible for the likes of Kane, Ali, Eriksen but seemingly bears any accountability for the new generation.
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Kane, Winks and Dele cost 5M.

People seriously banging on about other teams spending are deliberately ignoring the fact that we haven’t had to spend the 300M they would have cost any other team.

So why the fuck shouldn’t we have a lower spend. If Salah came from the Scousers academy, do people think they’d have spent 40M on a striker?

Poch had 34M worth of back up strikers.

He threw them in the bin.
 
theromanianjackass said:
He needs time because rebuilding takes time. And the process has already been delayed. Last summer when we didn't get in anyone. We have players who said loud and clear that they want out. Our first team still relies on those players after 2 seasons, can you believe it? We can't and won't replace them in a single transfer window. We have just replaced Dembele with someone who still needs time to adjust to a much more demanding league. Add in the fact that three of our summer signings are out (two injured, another loaned back to a club that doesn't even use him anymore) and there's the result. We're still using the last season's players. The same players that got us in the UCL final yes, but the same players who had an atrocious run of results at the end of the season. I don't know how people expect different results when the players are the same.

Poch needs time. One season, two seasons, we have to stick with him. He needs our support, the fans' support. I don't think another manager can perform significantly better with the crop of players we have now, because the players are not in it with their heart, they are not playing for the badge anymore. You can't recommit a player to a club if his head has been turned.
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This season’s end is enough time. Improve on last season or replace him!
 
Tomo said:
And who developed this squad. the likes of Rose, Verts even Dembele where a complete mess under AVB and Sherwood, he got rid of the deadwood and developed our players. People have very short memories.

Not only that but so many of our player like Dier, Dele and Eriksen with clear flaws in their games for the most part due to our way of playing got around it. Even Toby alluded a few seasons back about the team needing to be at 100% or it was average which I thought was harsh at the time but I understood the point he was making.

If you want to know how good our team is player for player talk to a neutral fan, all fans overrate their squads and we are the same. Not saying we don’t have world class players and for me Kane is truly world class.

This is not some golden team handed to an idiot, this is a team built up and improved dramatically both individually and collectively and now it’s coming to the end of its cycle with players aging or wanting new challenges.

We have bought late in the day and it could take a quarter to half a season to truly see the benefits of Lo Celso, Ndombele and Sessegnon. But rebuilding is hard and while yes Klopp is a brilliant manager we wouldn’t be replacing Poch with Klopp but rather Poch with Howe which for me ain’t an improvement.

Had we started the rebuild 2 seasons ago when we should of we wouldn’t be here but we had a giant stadium to build and pay for. We are now playing catch up and it’s clear it’s taken it’s toll on the coaching staff and players alike.
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Vertonghen a complete mess under AVB? Is that the same Vertonghen that was in the PFA team of the year in his first season under AVB. Dembele? I must have imagined his and Sandro’s partnership being one of the best in the league - I must have also missed Pochettinho playing Bentaleb and Mason ahead of him for a whole season. I also like how you claim how Rose was a mess under the previous managers and completely ignore that he is a mess now. Perhaps before questioning other people’s memories you check if yours are correct first because there is an awful lot of false history there.

And if I wanted to know what about the quality of our team I wouldn’t go to a opposing supporter - the bias would be apparent. I would look at reports from parties like the CEIS that have our squad as one of the most valuable in the game. This whole painful rebuild narrative is also week ( unsurprisingly you are simply parroting his words). We have a team packed full of talent that shouldn’t be losing to the likes of Newcastle at home or lost 15 games out of the last 36.

He inherited much of these players as well and the remainder given by a structure he didn’t have much input in. He has been given an embarrassment of riches and yet we are the only top 6 side not to have won anything during his tenure whilst mediocre Woolwich, Chelsea and United sides.

The level to which people are overrating this guy is quite something. It’s like trying to make out that Tim Henman was on a par with Agassi and Sampras. It’s beyond delusion
 
Tomo said:
When then that is far more concerning than the manager. However I would like to add the two years we did hardy fuck all in the market where two years we where building a £1bn stadium. I’d imagine we will improve in the market going forward.
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1 year (2 windows) without signings; not 2 years.
 
The Hood said:
Vertonghen a complete mess under AVB? Is that the same Vertonghen that was in the PFA team of the year in his first season under AVB. Dembele? I must have imagined his and Sandro’s partnership being one of the best in the league - I must have also missed Pochettinho playing Bentaleb and Mason ahead of him for a whole season. I also like how you claim how Rose was a mess under the previous managers and completely ignore that he is a mess now. Perhaps before questioning other people’s memories you check if yours are correct first because there is an awful lot of false history there.

And if I wanted to know what about the quality of our team I wouldn’t go to a opposing supporter - the bias would be apparent. I would look at reports from parties like the CEIS that have our squad as one of the most valuable in the game. This whole painful rebuild narrative is also week ( unsurprisingly you are simply parroting his words). We have a team packed full of talent that shouldn’t be losing to the likes of Newcastle at home or lost 15 games out of the last 36.

He inherited much of these players as well and the remainder given by a structure he didn’t have much input in. He has been given an embarrassment of riches and yet we are the only top 6 side not to have won anything during his tenure whilst mediocre Woolwich, Chelsea and United sides.

The level to which people are overrating this guy is quite something. It’s like trying to make out that Tim Henman was on a par with Agassi and Sampras. It’s beyond delusion
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He ain’t Sampras but he sure ain’t Tim Henman. And if he was given an ‘embrassment or richest’ one wonders what the fuck AVB and Sherwood were doing with them.

And the reason why Bentaleb played ahead of Dmebel because he was playing poorly under AVB/Sherwood and didn’t start that well for Poch, injuries also a factor but Dembele didn’t play his best for us as a club until Poch and until Poch’s second/third season.

As for Vertonghen yes he did have good games under AVB and sometimes heroic game with Rose constantly out of position during AVB’s tenure. He also was pretty obviously deeply unhappy during AVB reign which was mentioned even on the forum and his performances could be erratic but given AVB’s reign was collapsing its perhaps understandable.
 
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