For all of you, Poch needs time

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Obviously he hoped something would change but it hasn't. Players who want to leave are not 100% committed to Tottenham. Fact, as Benitez would say. That causes disharmony in the squad and that sentiment spreads and we get the malaise that we have now. Poch has never been in this situation, and he is learning what a shitty place it is to be in. He has to take the blame for tactics, selections etc but I do feel sorry for him because so many important players want to move on at the same time

If Poch leAves tomorrow and a new manager comes in next week, the contract issues with Alderweireld, Vertonghen and Eriksen still remain. Rose still wants to leave, Wanyama is finished, Dier is still sulking because he wasn't allowed to join Man Utd a few years ago. It's a fucking mess and no wonder Harry looks so jacked off with it all. He is not happy because he is on the inside, he sees what is happening.

Yes I think Poch has to go but whoever takes over has to have the balls to change the shape and personnel of the team immediately and the fans will have to accept that we are taking a step backwards in the short term for the overall benefit in the long term.
But like you say, if he leaves now then nothing will change because the team situation will be the same and we'd have the same problem with whoever comes in?
 
but I do feel sorry for him because so many important players want to move on at the same time
Question here is why? We just bought two quality midfielders for 100M and a LB most people wanted for years

I highly doubt it’s the chairman.....we have a history here. The “bad eggs”, Townsend, Dier Janssen, Rose, Toby, Eriksen, Trippier, Walker....

All fallen foul at some point.
f Poch leAves tomorrow and a new manager comes in next week, the contract issues with Alderweireld, Vertonghen and Eriksen still remain. Rose still wants to leave, Wanyama is finished, Dier is still sulking because he wasn't allowed to join Man Utd a few years ago. It's a fucking mess and no wonder Harry looks so jacked off with it all. He is not happy because he is on the inside, he sees what is happening.

Yes I think Poch has to go but whoever takes over has to have the balls to change the shape and personnel of the team immediately and the fans will have to accept that we are taking a step backwards in the short term for the overall benefit in the long term.

This will all come down to if the players are in revolt with the current manager or not.

I don’t believe half a squad turn into cunts overnight at the same time.
 
This will all come down to if the players are in revolt with the current manager or not.

I don’t believe half a squad turn into cunts overnight at the same time.

I don't think they are in revolt with the manager. They simply want to leave for their own reasons. Eriksen wants the easy life in sunny Spain, Alderweireld and Vertonghen want one last big payday, Rose has wanted to leave and go back up north for 2 or 3 years. Like I said Dier hasn't been the same since he was denied a move to Man United the club he supported as a boy. They haven't turned into cunts but they are not 100% committed which in turn creates problems with the group as a whole because there are others who are 100% committed who don't want to go anywhere else at the moment.
 
Question here is why? We just bought two quality midfielders for 100M and a LB most people wanted for years

I highly doubt it’s the chairman.....we have a history here. The “bad eggs”, Townsend, Dier Janssen, Rose, Toby, Eriksen, Trippier, Walker....

All fallen foul at some point.

This will all come down to if the players are in revolt with the current manager or not.

I don’t believe half a squad turn into cunts overnight at the same time.

Good post but losing Pochettino solves little because many of the players that would nearly definitely be moved on by a new manager are going to be moved on (or leave) by Pochettino regardless.

What seens irrefutable is that harmony and togetherness are not as they should be for reasons unknown.
 
Question here is why? We just bought two quality midfielders for 100M and a LB most people wanted for years

I highly doubt it’s the chairman.....we have a history here. The “bad eggs”, Townsend, Dier Janssen, Rose, Toby, Eriksen, Trippier, Walker....

We made 4 signings in the summer but only one is currently making a contribution and he himself looks like he needs time to get used to the pace and intensity of the PL. It's frustrating that we didn't buy 4 players in the summer and all 4 immediately acclimatised and made instant impacts. Again whether it's Poch or someone else they going to have to be patient to see the best of these four. 6 months, 12 months, 18 months who knows.

Still, no matter who the new signings were was never going to change the minds of players who are committed to leaving as soon as they can.
 
We made 4 signings in the summer but only one is currently making a contribution and he himself looks like he needs time to get used to the pace and intensity of the PL

He had a whole pre season no? Wasnt that the key?
Poch didnt play Lo Celso....gently gently gently....yaaaaaawn

It's frustrating that we didn't buy 4 players in the summer and all 4 immediately acclimatised and made instant impacts. Again whether it's Poch or someone else they going to have to be patient to see the best of these four. 6 months, 12 months, 18 months who knows.

Still, no matter who the new signings were was never going to change the minds of players who are committed to leaving as soon as they can.

They wont make an impact in a system that cant see us break down relegation fodder and now 4th division oppo.
I said last year, put whatever RB you want in the history of the game into this side, and our attack will still be shit. Guess what....
 
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I can't hear the phone ringing Daniel. I'm ready and waiting
 
It’s quite apparent to me the that the fault lies with the players, the chairman, the ground move, the World Cup, Man City and our managerial definition and NOT Pochettino. When are you fickle fake so called supporters going to understand that this is the greatest spurs manager of a generation and that it’s a privilege that he has chosen us.
 

ShutUpPatrik

Supporter
Now I'm a big fat dynamo!
But like you say, if he leaves now then nothing will change because the team situation will be the same and we'd have the same problem with whoever comes in?
But at the same time, getting someone new in would allow him to look at the situation with new, fresh eyes. And it would also account for a massive reset in the group process since any beef that a player might have had with Poch/Jesus/Toni/whoever is out the door and you can start from scratch. Any new manager could sit down with one of the boys on an outgoing and have a discussion with them and get them to agree to at least perform to their best ability.

The problems would remain yes at the very least in the short term but it could pay off in the long term. But replacing a manager is always a gamble and that we even have it as a possibility is probably something that Levy is losing a lot of sleep over. Particularly if the rest of the board is on his ass about it. I'm not advocating for his sacking/him walking but with the situation we are in it would be foolish to not consider it happening.
 
Good post but losing Pochettino solves little because many of the players that would nearly definitely be moved on by a new manager are going to be moved on (or leave) by Pochettino regardless.

What seens irrefutable is that harmony and togetherness are not as they should be for reasons unknown.
Yeah exactly Toby has refused a new contract so has Eriksen that’s nothing to do with Pochettino Vertonghen wants one but for some reason isn’t getting one and Rose I’m not sure? Each of those players are getting picked to play regularly when some might say they shouldn’t but the problem is not with the manager.
 

ShutUpPatrik

Supporter
Now I'm a big fat dynamo!
Yeah exactly Toby has refused a new contract so has Eriksen that’s nothing to do with Pochettino Vertonghen wants one but for some reason isn’t getting one and Rose I’m not sure? Each of those players are getting picked to play regularly when some might say they shouldn’t but the problem is not with the manager.
But it isn't like we haven't tried re-signing them to new deals. It was only a couple of weeks ago that we offered Eriksen a 200 grand a week guaranteed deal that he just sent back unsigned. We were willing to break our wage structure for defenders for Toby but he/his team backed off at the last second. Rose has made it clear he wants to move up north etc.

I get that for some it is easier to blame to backroom office/owners but I think in reality that this is a complex situation were every part is at fault somewhat, but with reasons backing up their decisions. Levy/Enic could have been quicker on the ball with re-signing them or less stringy with pay. But they probably have orders from further north about how far they can go with that. The players could have accepted the terms offered but they are of course going to look for the best possible deal for themselves, and Poch could be more ruthless with players that he feels aren't committed enough. But that would mean probably exiling a decent chunk of players that he probably feels a substantial amount of loyalty towards and that might be something he struggles with.

To quote Run DMC, it's tricky.
 

WookieD

wharrgarbl 💫
I think we might need a complete overhaul. Poch has completely fucked it with his comments last season. How can anyone below him believe in the project/philosophy after Poch publicly stated he would leave if he won the CL final? He has completely undermined everything he has worked towards and created doubt in everyone involved in pitch side operations. If the boss is fucking off, what am I doing here?

As for Eriksen etc. Again, why would they commit long term with such uncertainty. Poch, for me, has absolutely fucked it. Really, really stupid. As with most things in management, think it but don’t say it.
 

Zest

Freedom from Samsara
4 seasons in a row of utterly toilet August/September performances...

Einstein "The definition of insanity, is doing the same things, over and over, and expecting different results".

The first few seasons, the belief was deep enough, and the reserves on metabolic energy (spleen qi etc) were higher. Now they look just drained.

Emotionally, knowing people want to leave, who are probably moaning about the excessive intensity demanded of them, is a simmering furnice which either needs tending, or will burn Poch and everybody when it tips out...

Bielsa was wrong completely, about suffering in training so you don't suffer on the pitch, you simply shut down the metabolic signals for a time, then instead the players just get injured, as we are now seeing more and more...

Learn your lessons Poch, or the cycle ends this season.

My worry, chiefly, is that Pochs reaction will be "double sessions"... because that will help!
 

Borodin55

Carpe Diem
4 seasons in a row of utterly toilet August/September performances...

Einstein "The definition of insanity, is doing the same things, over and over, and expecting different results".

The first few seasons, the belief was deep enough, and the reserves on metabolic energy (spleen qi etc) were higher. Now they look just drained.

Emotionally, knowing people want to leave, who are probably moaning about the excessive intensity demanded of them, is a simmering furnice which either needs tending, or will burn Poch and everybody when it tips out...

Bielsa was wrong completely, about suffering in training so you don't suffer on the pitch, you simply shut down the metabolic signals for a time, then instead the players just get injured, as we are now seeing more and more...

Learn your lessons Poch, or the cycle ends this season.

My worry, chiefly, is that Pochs reaction will be "double sessions"... because that will help!

Please Sir, What's a 'simmering furnice' ?? :thumbdown:
 
But it isn't like we haven't tried re-signing them to new deals. It was only a couple of weeks ago that we offered Eriksen a 200 grand a week guaranteed deal that he just sent back unsigned. We were willing to break our wage structure for defenders for Toby but he/his team backed off at the last second. Rose has made it clear he wants to move up north etc.

I get that for some it is easier to blame to backroom office/owners but I think in reality that this is a complex situation were every part is at fault somewhat, but with reasons backing up their decisions. Levy/Enic could have been quicker on the ball with re-signing them or less stringy with pay. But they probably have orders from further north about how far they can go with that. The players could have accepted the terms offered but they are of course going to look for the best possible deal for themselves, and Poch could be more ruthless with players that he feels aren't committed enough. But that would mean probably exiling a decent chunk of players that he probably feels a substantial amount of loyalty towards and that might be something he struggles with.


To quote Run DMC, it's tricky.
Yeah it could very well be a build up of numerous problems and they’re coming to a head
Contracts renewed
Players not wanting to stay and us not getting rid
Loyalty to certain players definitely the CL final is the obvious example Moura should have started that game irrespective of who else was available!
We ain’t Man Utd Ferguson in his pomp would pick a team to win not because of who he was Man Utd was what mattered not the player we haven’t got nor will have that aura.
 
I hope Poch is able to turn things around but, in my experience, when team motivation (or lack of it) rears its ugly head, it's usually fatal to the manager's relationship with the players and the only thing that resolves the situation is a new manager and a fresh start.

While Poch has been successful, he hasn't built on that success and we've more or less had the same team for the last five years and achieved the same results (top 4 finish with the occasional cup run) and it seems that the players have stopped playing for him.
 

Zest

Freedom from Samsara

Truth stings eh...

If you knew my history with this, you would not be such a fucking twit over it.

On SpursCommunity, I used to get pelters, two seasons ago (or three maybe), but when my injury predictions started coming true, folks just like you started shutting the fuck up...

In time, if I can be bothered, I will explain in posts in a way you will start to understand.

We are made from matter, which is finite in crucial aspects, it is clear that some of these crucial aspects are not being addressed, which coupled with intensity of training makes this current situation inevitable (again I made a thread on SpursCommunity at the start of Pochs third season over this, as it was clear back then what happens, that I worried he was another 3 season manager, given his clear burn out techniques).

Look at his stars - Luke Shaw (Injury ravaged, burnt out), Danny Rose... they all try soo hard for him, they burn out due to inadequacy of key metabolic elements and lack of sophisticated enough alkaline mineral recovery techniques.

IMO... But it's a fact :disdain:
 

Borodin55

Carpe Diem
Truth stings eh...

If you knew my history with this, you would not be such a fucking twit over it.

On SpursCommunity, I used to get pelters, two seasons ago (or three maybe), but when my injury predictions started coming true, folks just like you started shutting the fuck up...

In time, if I can be bothered, I will explain in posts in a way you will start to understand.

We are made from matter, which is finite in crucial aspects, it is clear that some of these crucial aspects are not being addressed, which coupled with intensity of training makes this current situation inevitable (again I made a thread on SpursCommunity at the start of Pochs third season over this, as it was clear back then what happens, that I worried he was another 3 season manager, given his clear burn out techniques).

Look at his stars - Luke Shaw (Injury ravaged, burnt out), Danny Rose... they all try soo hard for him, they burn out due to inadequacy of key metabolic elements and lack of sophisticated enough alkaline mineral recovery techniques.

IMO... But it's a fact :disdain:
WTF :thumbdown:
 

VirginiaSpur

Supporter
"Intelligent but stupid" - Ahab
Truth stings eh...

If you knew my history with this, you would not be such a fucking twit over it.

On SpursCommunity, I used to get pelters, two seasons ago (or three maybe), but when my injury predictions started coming true, folks just like you started shutting the fuck up...

In time, if I can be bothered, I will explain in posts in a way you will start to understand.

We are made from matter, which is finite in crucial aspects, it is clear that some of these crucial aspects are not being addressed, which coupled with intensity of training makes this current situation inevitable (again I made a thread on SpursCommunity at the start of Pochs third season over this, as it was clear back then what happens, that I worried he was another 3 season manager, given his clear burn out techniques).

Look at his stars - Luke Shaw (Injury ravaged, burnt out), Danny Rose... they all try soo hard for him, they burn out due to inadequacy of key metabolic elements and lack of sophisticated enough alkaline mineral recovery techniques.

IMO... But it's a fact :disdain:
Oh please, tell me your fucking history with "Qi", you goddamned fraud.
 
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