Get on the record now: Pochettino's margin of error

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What is the lowest acceptable league finish in Pochettino's first season that allows him to stay on?


  • Total voters
    116

Louisiana Hotspur

Özil: looks shite.
Before anyone even starts about this being a negative thread, first of all, relax, it's just for fun and I expect good things from Poch like most of us. But it's also not meant to be negative. I want people to be on record before the season starts, acknowledging that we are giving this manager some leeway and time to build even if the transition isn't always rosy. But just how much leeway theoretically?

*for consistency's sake assume we exit with a halfway run in the cups and Europa.
 
Given the results it would require to finish outside of the top seven, I think it would require some extremely poor performances from the players we have on hand. Hell, even with all the shenanigans of last year we finished sixth, Man U were absolutely shockingly poor at home and still managed seventh, and Newcastle put up something like 17 or 18 points in the second half of the season and still managed to grab ninth. As such, I think eighth or worse and he sees the door. Absolutely no excuse to not finish in the top seven with the squad we have.
 
We'll be in 3rd or 4th for most of the season, drifting out to 5th when we fail to address our problems in January. LFC will be the media whipping boys with an under performing, disjointed team, with Rodgers being sacked having been 5-0 up against Burnley with 7 minutes to go, and losing 7-5. Lovren 6 og's and a Dean Marney penalty. And I'll really laugh.
 
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Given the results it would require to finish outside of the top seven, I think it would require some extremely poor performances from the players we have on hand. Hell, even with all the shenanigans of last year we finished sixth, Man U were absolutely shockingly poor at home and still managed seventh, and Newcastle put up something like 17 or 18 points in the second half of the season and still managed to grab ninth. As such, I think eighth or worse and he sees the door. Absolutely no excuse to not finish in the top seven with the squad we have.
I agree that finishing outside of the top 7 would be pretty poor but I'll give him a bit more leeway and say top half, especially if we don't bring in anymore players. I just don't think the board is going to cut him loose unless we show absolutely no ability this season and, while outside of the top 7 is poor, a bottom half is just unacceptable.
 
I agree that finishing outside of the top 7 would be pretty poor but I'll give him a bit more leeway and say top half, especially if we don't bring in anymore players. I just don't think the board is going to cut him loose unless we show absolutely no ability this season and, while outside of the top 7 is poor, a bottom half is just unacceptable.

If you think of it from the angle of the results it would require to finish in those positions, rather the actual position, that's where I think eighth would be untenable. Think of all the matches we screwed up in last year, the two points out of a possible 24 we picked up against the top four, the 45% count of goals conceded due to own goal or error - and we somehow still managed to pull sixth. Liverpool surprised most, Everton showed stunning improvement in one year under a new coach, and we still finished sixth.

It would take something drastic for us to finish outside of the top seven with this squad, almost a concerted effort of sabotage. So I don't think it's the position specifically that would do him in, but rather the sheer quantity of shocking results that would do so. If de Boer is still at Ajax at that point, and we do that poorly with this squad, I don't think Poch has much of a chance.
 
Agree with some of the above poster. This season I'm looking for improvement from both a team perspective, but also from individuals, in terms of how they perform. With better performances I can't see any way we'll drop out of top 7, as the difference in squad quality is too big from the top 7 to the rest, with a possible exception in Newcastle.

If the latter have the season of the century and finish above us despite a good, offensive season from us, a 8th can be accepted.
 

tricky

Supporter
Man up and LOL
Even relegation.

I have set the bar low this season.

Anything else is a bonus.

It also helps to upset typical Internet melters when you say it publicly, so double win for me come next May.
 
Agree with some of the above poster. This season I'm looking for improvement from both a team perspective, but also from individuals, in terms of how they perform. With better performances I can't see any way we'll drop out of top 7, as the difference in squad quality is too big from the top 7 to the rest, with a possible exception in Newcastle.

If the latter have the season of the century and finish above us despite a good, offensive season from us, a 8th can be accepted.

Perhaps, since I think it would also require fantastic seasons from the rest of the top seven. Liverpool is set for some incredible turmoil; as they've gone from a non-Europe-competing strong first eleven to CL, losing their best player, bringing in a pile of attacking players to build a "squad," and being expected to produce on all fronts; Man U is still a question mark; and it remains to be seen whether Everton can produce something like that again. As said before, it would just be an incredibly unlucky season for all of the above to click into gear, as well as a surprise midtable side jumping us in the process. So yes, I suppose were that to happen, firing the manager would be difficult to do.

But again, if de Boer is still there at Ajax, with a year less on that expensive contract of his, I think that's some context that has to be considered.
 

jimmyriggle

Blatant
Not that I'll be frothing from the mouth if we finish below 8th, but as people said, even last year's cluster fuck had us finishing 6th.

The premier league is now quite clearly split between an elite of 6 or 7 teams and then the rest. However, I don't think it's beyond a club like Newcastle to have another freak season of doing well, so I'll go with 8th. I don't want us sacking a manager yet again, but with this squad anything lower than that and something seriously wrong will have happened. The only caveat I have is if we have an enormous injury list or some sort of tragedy/ points deduction happens.


For the record I'd take 16th place and a Europa league win all day.
 
We were shite last season. Double shite in fact. And we still got sixth, so that's the minimum for me. Stupid that it's not an option on the poll given out last manager with just half a season got sacked for finishing there...

The problem I see is that Citeh, Chelski, and Woolwich will all certainly finish ahead if us. So we'd need both Manure and Lolerpool to screw up in order to get fourth...they both have decent managers.
Let's hope we win a cup and put on a good show in the league.
 
While there's a temptation to set the bar low out of desire for managerial stability, if we were losing week in, week out, people would start to care less about managerial stability and more about managerial competency. So I'm going with cahspur cahspur as his point about the actual results that would take us to lower than that is accurate.

As much as we just want a managerial appointment to be successful for once (or what seems like "for once"), I'm not sure what would have to happen for a manager to finish say, tenth, but still show that something promising is being developed. I suppose a number of games where we played like Gods and pummelled the shit out of some teams, especially one or two big teams. Then you could say that the makings are there and we need to give the manager time to build consistency. That seems even less likely to happen than just finishing tenth in a bog standard way though.

It would still be a clusterfuck to see him sacked though obviously. I highly doubt he'll let us fall down to eighth or below.
 

Tomo

Supporter
I think in many ways we are unlucky, two seasons ago everyone at the top was average, average enough that man united could play shit every game and still win the title.

Now we have mourhino, rogers, Martinez, pelegrini,van gaal and a seemingly rejuvenated wenger at the helm of our rivals.

Chelsea - Mourinho now has a proper team that has balance with Costa and fabregas

Woolwich - stability combined with a few recent great purchases

Man city- brilliance combined with experience

Man united - the genius of van gaal over the mediocrity of moyes.

Liverpool- good manager and good signings I don't think Suarez loss will destroy then as much as people think

Everton - weaker squad than us but more stable and really good manager.

I think we will come either 5th or 6th, would like a good cup run this year.
 

ILSpur

ESL founding member
During the absolute clusterfuck of the 2013-2014 season, we still managed to come in 6th. We had injuries on top of injuries, two managers, bland tactics, a team with practically 1/2 of the players never having any real competitive action together under their belt, and an apparent many-season low in terms of attitude and morale.

If we don't get at least 7th, I can't see how we could really justify the results.

That being said, one of the most important things for me is going to be HOW we play. We all want results and we all want to fight our way to the top, but the reality is that there are going to be bad losses, unfair ties, and the like. I personally think that the biggest reason people lost faith with AVB so quickly was due to how bland and nonchalant we looked during his time at the helm. If we get a bad loss or tie but we look positive and work hard, many sins are forgiven.
 
I voted 17th out of stubborn pedantry more than anything else. I'm desperate for us to keep a manager and core squad for three full seasons no matter what.

In reality I'd almost certainly be looking for his exit if we finished that low but my theory stands that we shouldn't sack him even if we have a poor season.
 

Millbanks

Spurs - Champions Cup of Europe Winners 2011
We need European football, regardless. To not have that, given we are not a shoe-in for top 4 if we have a season out of Europe, would be a major loss for us, in my opinion.

I've gone for 7th, which I would reluctantly accept, depending on cup runs and who wins FA cup etc to decide whether 5th, 6th and 7th qualify for Europa.

I know a lot of people hate it, but I love watching Spurs as much as possible, and to not be involved in the midweek games would be a big step back.
 

Louisiana Hotspur

Özil: looks shite.
So essentially almost everyone expects we'll finish 6th, but we sack another manager if we finish 8th in his first season?

I certainly understand the logic though looking at last season's table. It would take a perfect storm to even go 8th: similar results from Spurs, a very strong surge from a mid-table team, improvement by United (expected), and no one up table from us slipping up and pulling a "United."

Fuck it. Let's win Europa.
 

Guido 🇺🇦

"Legacy Fan"
8th so long as we:
1. Give 100%. I expect each and every player that puts on the Lillywhite shirt to give everything he has for his team mates, for his manager, for the club and for the fans. I will clap them off the pitch if they give everything they have but still loose, no shame in that. This is a minimum.
2. Signs of us playing attractive football again
3. No spankings
4. He conducts himself with dignity, doesn't act like a cunt with the press or on the sidelines. Oh and when we sing your name give us a wave there's a good fella.
 

Millbanks

Spurs - Champions Cup of Europe Winners 2011
If we finished below 7th, I would be highly unsatisfied, but sacking the manager would depend on our general play over the season, rather than the end result. Season 2, top 5 ideally, and then pushing for Champions League over the next 2 seasons in conjunction with the new stadium.

We are nearing a time where we will have to compete or the money spent on the club will not be warranted.
 
I cast my vote for 8th, however, like many other people have said it really depends on style of play.

I truly believe that LVG isn't going to turn around United in a season and that Liverpool is going to fall off. I think our biggest competition for the position we all want is Everton.

On a separate note, I think that Newcastle is actually going to be really good this year, and that from 4th to 8th will be within 8 points. We're going to have to play well out of the gate, and we need a win against Liverpool in that 3rd game. It'll take a ton of pressure off our squad and manager, and allow them to focus on what they are doing well vs what the flaws of the system are. Let Poch worry about the flaws, and let the players worry about whether or not their executing his plans perfectly. I think that a 6th place finish is quite possible, and 7th would bother me a lot, but it wouldn't be the end of the world. Especially if we're scoring against the majority of our competition and lot allowing clean sheets against us. 8th is where I really come along and say the gap is too much to overcome given that we have great players and on paper see no reason to finish lower than 6th.
 
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