Giovani Lo Celso

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Exactly this. I've said before that if he didn't have a number of caps for Argentina he wouldn't be rated by some half as much. He's a decent player. But that's all he is for me.
That's fine with me. We have a noticeable shortage of decent players. We're still a couple of players short of decent first 11, so that puts him ahead of a lot of other players in the squad.
 
Well like Winks he doesn't really score or assist for a start. Certainly not in the PL where it really matters anyway.

This has been talked about so much. If he is making the key pass to create chances who cares if it is the last pass that leads to a stat?

Today watch how many times he started the play that led to chances, that is equally important as an assist. It is the kind of thing that Winks cannot do.

Focus on goals and assists for a player who is asked to do what GLC does misses so much. It is a dumb way to evaluate a player when there is so much else that goes into what he does.

Do you really think if he taps the ball to Kane 5 times a year and Kane picks out the top corner with worldies that GLC is all of a sudden a better player? That is why looking only at stats and not what actually happens is stupid.
 
That's fine with me. We have a noticeable shortage of decent players. We're still a couple of players short of decent first 11, so that puts him ahead of a lot of other players in the squad.

And is why I've always said I would keep him. Just want more from him more often and it's a head scratcher why some rate him as highly as they do.
 
This has been talked about so much. If he is making the key pass to create chances who cares if it is the last pass that leads to a stat?

Today watch how many times he started the play that led to chances, that is equally important as an assist. It is the kind of thing that Winks cannot do.

Focus on goals and assists for a player who is asked to do what GLC does misses so much. It is a dumb way to evaluate a player when there is so much else that goes into what he does.

Do you really think if he taps the ball to Kane 5 times a year and Kane picks out the top corner with worldies that GLC is all of a sudden a better player? That is why looking only at stats and not what actually happens is stupid.

He doesn't have to assist or get many goals if other parts of his game are brilliant, but for me, they're not. Personally he's almost like Wijnaldum in that he does a job for his team but you shouldn't really expect too much more from him. I see someone that's neat and tidy enough, safe, runs about... I'm just not getting the hype.
 
Where is the Gio that was constantly going on driving runs beating 2 or 3 players and looking threatening?

I'm still not convinced he should be used in the pivot alongside Hojbjerg. Hopefully we get a manager in who knows what he's doing and can figure him out.
 
I'm still not convinced he should be used in the pivot alongside Hojbjerg. Hopefully we get a manager in who knows what he's doing and can figure him out.

I agree with that the 4-2-3-1 is not our best formation at all. We shouldn't use it and it doesn't work for either Gio or Ndombele. I am not sure it is good for PEH either unless we bring in a player who can take on defensive responsibility, break the press with passing and running and be able to be the main distributor from deep. I am not sure there are a ton of guys like that, maybe Bissouma can play that role, SMS could when he was at his peak not sure he is there now.
 
I agree with that the 4-2-3-1 is not our best formation at all. We shouldn't use it and it doesn't work for either Gio or Ndombele. I am not sure it is good for PEH either unless we bring in a player who can take on defensive responsibility, break the press with passing and running and be able to be the main distributor from deep. I am not sure there are a ton of guys like that, maybe Bissouma can play that role, SMS could when he was at his peak not sure he is there now.
I like Bissouma. He has got fire in his belly, decent feet, beautiful athleticism and surges forward with the ball now and again. But surely I can't be alone in thinking that the bulk of his passing is ultra-cautious and downright loose?
 
I like Bissouma. He has got fire in his belly, decent feet, beautiful athleticism and surges forward with the ball now and again. But surely I can't be alone in thinking that the bulk of his passing is ultra-cautious and downright loose?

I haven't found that to be the case but I also would like to see him playing with better players than Alzate, Lallana, MacAllister, Gros in MF passing up to Maupay, Trossard and Welbeck.

I will certainly look for it now that you have mentioned it though.
 
I haven't found that to be the case but I also would like to see him playing with better players than Alzate, Lallana, MacAllister, Gros in MF passing up to Maupay, Trossard and Welbeck.

I will certainly look for it now that you have mentioned it though.
I know Brighton's approach is all a bit methodical, but I am not sure it explains what I see in relation to Bissouma. I would like to see him under a coach that wants his team to play forward faster, but even then, it might be asking a bit much of him.
 
Had a slow start to the game but worked his way into it and was really instrumental in our midfield winning the ball back a lot and started a lot of our attacks.

A good day at the office for him.
 
I thought he had a decent game yesterday, but can be more consistent. The games before this were poor and worrying. I would like to see what he can do if he stays fit and whether he can improve under a new manager.
 
I thought he was one of our best players today, he made good tackles and interceptions. He always looked to transition the ball forward. I’ve been disappointed by him this season and even recently he’s been underwhelming but I thought he had a very good game today. Too many people have an agenda when it comes to players in our squad. I can’t stand Dele but I thought he was good today as well. Some people look at players with their confirmation bias hoping to be proven right.
 
He's better than Winks. That's silly, Winks is barely a Premier league player.

But GLC on the most part is barely above "meh"

That's not to say he doesn't have talent or good games. But there are times where eve if you put flashing lights on him you'd be hard pressed to see him or what he's doing.

There's often too much of that from our squad these days.
 
I thought he was one of our best players today, he made good tackles and interceptions. He always looked to transition the ball forward. I’ve been disappointed by him this season and even recently he’s been underwhelming but I thought he had a very good game today. Too many people have an agenda when it comes to players in our squad. I can’t stand Dele but I thought he was good today as well. Some people look at players with their confirmation bias hoping to be proven right.
Meh... he had a WTF moment for sure at one point. He was on the right in our defensive third, had a ton of space in front of him and instead of taking it, passed the ball backwards to Tanganga I believe. Anyone else remember that?
 
RESPECT THE COCK RESPECT THE COCK Doc Doc

You two understand football better than me, so confirm if my theory on GLC is accurate-

I've watched a lot of player highlights from him at Real Betis, and he was able to really drive his team forward.
In the PL, he shows his good touch and coordination, but can't seem to control games or get assists.

Is the issue that he's too one footed? In La Liga he got away with it as the intensity and pace of the game is not as high, so he had enough time to move the ball onto his left foot. But gets closed down too quickly in PL.
 
RESPECT THE COCK RESPECT THE COCK Doc Doc

You two understand football better than me, so confirm if my theory on GLC is accurate-

I've watched a lot of player highlights from him at Real Betis, and he was able to really drive his team forward.
In the PL, he shows his good touch and coordination, but can't seem to control games or get assists.

Is the issue that he's too one footed? In La Liga he got away with it as the intensity and pace of the game is not as high, so he had enough time to move the ball onto his left foot. But gets closed down too quickly in PL.
You can't really expect any midfielder to run a game in the way you would like in a side that is so lazy and disorganised without the ball, and where the off-ball movement is so pathetic. He's not in the best of shape from a fitness POV, but I think that's true of most of our players. It's never easy to watch a player who is so one-footed, but it is not the end of the world. I haven't watched much of Everton this calendar year, but James only uses his right foot for standing on, and he has vision to wipe his arse with, and superior technical quality. From what I have seen of GLC in a Tottenham shirt, he doesn't see the passes and is not showing he has the technique to pull off the really difficult stuff in the opposition's half. James can ping balls all over the place, for example.
 
He's better than Winks. That's silly, Winks is barely a Premier league player.

But GLC on the most part is barely above "meh"

That's not to say he doesn't have talent or good games. But there are times where eve if you put flashing lights on him you'd be hard pressed to see him or what he's doing.

There's often too much of that from our squad these days.

I've never once said he isn't better than Winks. But I don't think he does an awful lot more than Winks does most of the time, despite having more natural ability.

I've also never once said I would actually look to sell Lo Celso. I'm on the fence with him, but if we also sell those I'm on the fence with we'd be left with about 3 players.

There's a good player (nowhere near world class right now) in Lo Celso. But he should be doing more and needs to be doing more. Hopefully a good pre-season and a new manager will get more out of him. Perhaps if we make him feel like one of the more important players in the team it will bring more out of him more often. I'd rather keep him than Ndombele if I had to choose between the two.
 
I am not specifically jumping on his case nor am I suggesting to sell him. But after the season got wrapped up, I took a look at stats.

Across two full seasons with Spurs he has 3676 minutes (equivalent of 41 full games; ~20,5 per season).
Out of which 2435 has come from EPL (27 full games) - that is just 35,5% of the total chances.

I would not add goals and assist numbers, as he has played also in deeper positions. But what I saw this season, he was not really spectacularly good or outstanding. He is clearly an upgrade on Winks and Sissoko, I think we can all agree with this but given he cost us 48 million - 16mEUR of loan fee + 32 mEUR to make it permanent (as far as I know, you can correct me). That makes him our 2nd most expensive puchase ever.

I'd say that on general terms he has been extremely bad return for that kind of investment.
Of course this season turmoil nor the injuries have helped his case, but still. For 48 million you would expect at least certain starter and one of the bright spots for the squad. Up to now he has been neither.

Hope he can turn things around in future of course. At least age could be on his side, given he just became 25.
 
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