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This is VERY important that Carragher has posted this, I delighted he has, I'm delighted with how he's worded this too.
Just read the Kane thread, complaint after complaint about the lack of respect Kane gets, much of it targeted towards him as a "cheat". FIFA dicks up and down the country have been put in their place, especially those from LFC with this from Carragher. Will it stop them? Of course not. Will it have made some of them think? 100% as most don't possess a single independent thought of their own.
FYI, here's a tiny bit more of it, a whole extra 1 min lol.........
That's a fine article, thanks for rescuing it from the paywall. I don't know the hack but that a good bit of writing, better than anything I've read on The Grauniad for some time. Is The Times good for sport?
I have something (a bit lengthy) to say about this bit "We would certainly not call Kane an orthodox No 9 any more, but not a false nine either" but I'm busy at the minute, I'll get back to you all on it.
Bet you can't wait
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It'sThat's a fine article, thanks for resuing it from the paywall. I don't know the hack but that a good bit of writing, better than anything I've read on The Grauniad for some time. Is The Times good for sport?
I have something (a bit lengthy) to say about this bit "We would certainly not call Kane an orthodox No 9 any more, but not a false nine either" but I'm busy at the minute, I'll get back to you all on it.
Bet you can't wait
Very good jorno IMO. Not worth the paid sub but I've got a free (one article per week/month??). Tend to not bother clicking on any unless they are his. Can't stand The Times, can't stand the self-appointed or should that be self-anointed greatest jorno of all time forever and ever Henry Winter.
I saw the Carragher piece on TV the other night and felt it was something we needed from an "unbias" pundit. IE, one who's not on our side.
There is a huge difference between diving and making the most of a foul. Especially in todays shocking referee world where you have to go over to get the foul.
There is a huge difference between diving and making the most of a foul. Especially in todays shocking referee world where you have to go over to get the foul.
I have asked for an had a strong desire to see what we now see from Kane for years. It has been apparent for years that he has a fantastic ability to spot runs and hit runners perfectly with accurate passes, but his selfish, goal-hungry style of play, the English number nine approach, has held him back. His hard work defensively was something we saw a lot of in his breakthrough season, but appeared to have been mostly stifled since.
How ironic that it took Mourinho, the manager that I (used to?) loathe, to bring out the best of our talisman.
If Kane continues playing like he does currently, I might just start worshipping him as my God and saviour.
It was actually really helpful these idiots flagged themselves up. It made it easier to work out what people to stick on the ignore list when I joined up!
IMO he's NEVER been a classic No9. First my definition of this is a CF that plays between the width of the posts, he's NEVER done this, he has always taken the CB's for a walk, usually out wide. I recall Shearer back in 2016(??) banging on about how much better he would be if he played like he used to (not acknowledging that Spurs don't play 1990's style football, it's why in the main I can't stand his analysis as it's based on his days not what's being played today).
He was a 10 before he came as 9 but he was never a typical 9. We had Dele playing ahead of him in the early days, he started to drop deep 3yrs ago.
The notable difference is now we play more on the counter (but think back to Dortmund games and we've done that before too, with Kane and Sonny tearing them apart) and we have more than one pacey player running behind (not just Son).
I've railed against the term "false nine" on many occasions, the way its presented as a cunning stroke of tactical genius when in fact all it means is that you don't have a striker available. Last season for example, with Kane and Son out we were forced to play Lucas Moura in the role. It wasn't a clever plan designed to catch the opponent unawares, it was simply us making do. He duly did his best but it wasn't great, certainly not something you'd ever want to see if more conventional alternatives were available.
Imagine that, god forbid we had a centre-back crisis and were left with no choice but to shove Højbjerg in there as a stop-gap. No pundit or poster would dream of calling him a "False 5" (I know that's his squad number but you get the point). Everyone, not least our opponents, would see it for what it was, an emergency stop-gap, not a stroke of creative guile by a cunning manager.
We have Spain to thank for this daft expression – Del Bosque wasn’t convinced by his striking options (a familiar shortcoming for anyone who follows the national team) at the 2012 Euros and decided to play Fabregas in that position, with the press coining the term falso nueve. Even then it seemed they were dressing up a bad situation in new clothes but still, it worked brilliantly, mainly because the rest of the team was perfectly drilled in the quick pass-and-move style that Fernando Hierro had introduced as director of football after a dismal 2008 European Championship.
Of course, other teams got used to being swarmed by non-strikers and midfielders and learnt to counter it, subsequent attempts to cover up for the lack of a proper goal scorer haven’t fared so well.
That said, a few years back the Spanish sports press coined another awful new term which might be appropriate here – the delantero defensivo, or “defensive striker”. It was used to describe Karim Benzema’s role at Madrid, where as often as not he was the provider for Ronaldo (and Bale to a lesser extent), doing what Harry is for us at the minute, albeit in a different way – laying the ball off with his back to the goal, dragging defenders out of position with clever movement, drawing fouls and so on.
I don't think people in Britain really appreciated what he was doing, how he was playing. That would explain the grief he got (and still gets) there from those who bizarrely think he's shit. Not so here - most Madridistas think he's the dog's cojones. Well, not my father-in-law who jumps on his every mistake with the delight that those on here express whenever Harry Winks fails to be the new Pirlo, but most, certainly.
I wonder if Jose had that in mind when he said “Maybe Harry Kane will change the way people look at strikers”?
It's hard not to listen to the premier leagues all time top scorer when he talks about scoring goals in the premier league.
I get what you're saying, but Shearer was and still is one of the most prolific strikers we've ever seen. He could score goals in the 6 yard box or smash one for 25 yars out. He could bully defenders or he could lose them. You dread to think just how dominant United would have been back then if they got him. And he may well have got a lot more goals than he already got.
I not doubting his ability as a player. I very much am when it comes to him as a pundit, he's woeful IMO.
I get what you're saying, for me though the term false 9 was invented for a player like Messi, kind of made it easier to describe a unique talent, a talent hard to pigeon hole. Most of football is viewed and communicated via positions, those positions used to have numbers, people could see those numbers and where/how they played within a system.
A special player doesn't always fit into those pigeon holes, the cause of this could be purely tactical from the coach or because of the player, I's argue it's both. There are also shifting styles of play too, the classic number 10 role (Baggio, Platini, Laudrup, Zico, Cruyff etc) also kind of no longer exist as styles morph into new (or old ones), so new names get invented as a means to eulogise and communicate to the masses, which in turn creates debates about the role/player/system.
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What always strikes me with him is he's grumpy as fuck and I think he probably has a bit of a superiority complex. I feel that's why Hoddle failed as a top class manager sometimes. He was supposedly better than half the players he was coaching despite being 20 years older.
Telegraph article today
Lockdown offered Kane a chance to rest and Mourinho a chance to think - both look better for it
JASON BURT
Harry Kane is re-inventing what it means to be a centre-forward. Not a number nine; not a false nine; not a number 10. Not even a nine and a half. This is something different from the Tottenham Hotspur striker and England captain who is becoming the best striker in world football in the thirds.
It is hard to think of another forward player who, combined, is so effective defensively; in midfield and yet still is so prominent in attack. In Tottenham’s impressive win over Manchester City at the weekend Kane was leading the number of tackles won, spent more time in his own half than City’s, did not have a shot on target, was booked and yet emphatically deserved to be named man of the match.
Kane affected the game with both goals. There was the clever movement as he stepped towards the ball, drawing both of City’s centre-halves with him, to create the space for Son Heung-min to run into and open the scoring. His presence unsettled City and he knew that and used it. Then Kane dropped into his own half to collect possession and run at the City goal before his typically finely weighted pass allowed substitute Giovani Lo Celso to beat Ederson.
That assist took Kane’s total in the Premier League to nine – four more than any other player in the top five European leagues – to add to his seven goals. Since Jose Mourinho became Spurs’ head coach Kane has 45 goal contributions – scoring 27 times with 18 assists – in just 34 games in all competitions.
In the Amazon Prime documentary series “All or Nothing” Mourinho made a gesture like an explosion to describe the impact he felt he could make on Kane and, so far, that has been the case although not probably in a way that the player expected.
Certainly the structure that Mourinho has created around Kane has made a significant difference. Spurs do, undeniably, defend deeper and press far less with the key being the forward runners – against City it was Son and Steven Bergwijn – who can occupy the opposition’s back-line, run in behind and allow Kane to drop off.
“When the puzzle around him is perfect for him, he’s fantastic,” Mourinho said after the City win and the use of the word “puzzle” was deliberate given before the transfer window closed he had spoken about how a “squad is a puzzle” and he needed more pieces to complete it. By praising Kane, Mourinho is praising himself.
Who can blame him? Few teams have taken advantage of the unique circumstances of lockdown as much as Spurs. Mourinho lived with his coaching staff before ‘Project Restart’ began, he was even reprimanded for breaking the government rules but has used the time wisely to work on team shape and organisation and taking advantage also of fans not being allowed into stadia. Would they have easily accepted the style of play?
The football is not complicated. It is not thrilling. It does not need time on the training pitches once the basic principles are instilled on what is called a ‘low block’ (defending deep) so breaks down less often that the intricate patterns demanded by Pep Guardiola. It is, though, hugely dependent on key players performing and chief among those is Kane who, at 27, is reaching new heights with his game intelligence and management.
Maybe Robert Lewandowski is a better, pure number nine but he does not do what Kane does. Neither does Erling Haaland or Sergio Aguero or Kylian Mbappe or any of the best strikers in the world. There is a comparison with Wayne Rooney in his prime at Manchester United when he dropped deeper, worked hard for the team and was a creator as well as a goal-scorer and, going further back, maybe even Marco Van Basten who arguably started the debate over whether a striker could be a “nine-and-a-half” - a hybrid of the classic centre-forward and a creative attacking midfielder.
Kane is taking that in a new direction with the work he does in his own penalty area, the way he receives the ball in difficult situations deep in his own half but also the space he is able to find to spring attacks, the quality of his passing and doing this without compromising his ability to still score goals at an impressive rate.
Kane has clearly bought into what Mourinho is doing. Maybe it is not, ideally, the kind of football he wants to play but for now it is winning football and we know he has not hidden the fact he has reached a point in his career when he wants to be able to win trophies and not just personal accolades. Alan Shearer’s all-time Premier League scoring record is in Kane’s sights. He has 150 Premier League goals and if he maintains his present rate Kane should beat Shearer’s total of 260. Similarly, with 34 goals for England, he should pass Rooney’s mark of 53 goals.
But while those landmarks would be remarkable what do they mean without silverware? The obvious conclusion would be that Kane was at the wrong club and stayed there too long. “I’ve always said if I don’t feel we are progressing as a team or going in the right direction, I’m not going to stay there for the sake of it,” Kane said in an Instagram Live Q&A during the first lockdown and it is starting to feel like now or never when it comes to him and Spurs.
By accepting this Kane is also making himself a better player and a more unique player. He wears the number 10, he is titularly a number nine. But he is actually both and neither of those. We need to find a new name for the role of Harry Kane 2.0.
A striker for all seasons
Harry Kane is redefining the role of striker and thriving in Jose Mourinho's Tottenham puzzleLockdown offered Kane a chance to rest and Mourinho a chance to think - both look better for it
JASON BURT
Harry Kane is re-inventing what it means to be a centre-forward. Not a number nine; not a false nine; not a number 10. Not even a nine and a half. This is something different from the Tottenham Hotspur striker and England captain who is becoming the best striker in world football in the thirds.
It is hard to think of another forward player who, combined, is so effective defensively; in midfield and yet still is so prominent in attack. In Tottenham’s impressive win over Manchester City at the weekend Kane was leading the number of tackles won, spent more time in his own half than City’s, did not have a shot on target, was booked and yet emphatically deserved to be named man of the match.
Kane affected the game with both goals. There was the clever movement as he stepped towards the ball, drawing both of City’s centre-halves with him, to create the space for Son Heung-min to run into and open the scoring. His presence unsettled City and he knew that and used it. Then Kane dropped into his own half to collect possession and run at the City goal before his typically finely weighted pass allowed substitute Giovani Lo Celso to beat Ederson.
That assist took Kane’s total in the Premier League to nine – four more than any other player in the top five European leagues – to add to his seven goals. Since Jose Mourinho became Spurs’ head coach Kane has 45 goal contributions – scoring 27 times with 18 assists – in just 34 games in all competitions.
In the Amazon Prime documentary series “All or Nothing” Mourinho made a gesture like an explosion to describe the impact he felt he could make on Kane and, so far, that has been the case although not probably in a way that the player expected.
Certainly the structure that Mourinho has created around Kane has made a significant difference. Spurs do, undeniably, defend deeper and press far less with the key being the forward runners – against City it was Son and Steven Bergwijn – who can occupy the opposition’s back-line, run in behind and allow Kane to drop off.
“When the puzzle around him is perfect for him, he’s fantastic,” Mourinho said after the City win and the use of the word “puzzle” was deliberate given before the transfer window closed he had spoken about how a “squad is a puzzle” and he needed more pieces to complete it. By praising Kane, Mourinho is praising himself.
Who can blame him? Few teams have taken advantage of the unique circumstances of lockdown as much as Spurs. Mourinho lived with his coaching staff before ‘Project Restart’ began, he was even reprimanded for breaking the government rules but has used the time wisely to work on team shape and organisation and taking advantage also of fans not being allowed into stadia. Would they have easily accepted the style of play?
The football is not complicated. It is not thrilling. It does not need time on the training pitches once the basic principles are instilled on what is called a ‘low block’ (defending deep) so breaks down less often that the intricate patterns demanded by Pep Guardiola. It is, though, hugely dependent on key players performing and chief among those is Kane who, at 27, is reaching new heights with his game intelligence and management.
Maybe Robert Lewandowski is a better, pure number nine but he does not do what Kane does. Neither does Erling Haaland or Sergio Aguero or Kylian Mbappe or any of the best strikers in the world. There is a comparison with Wayne Rooney in his prime at Manchester United when he dropped deeper, worked hard for the team and was a creator as well as a goal-scorer and, going further back, maybe even Marco Van Basten who arguably started the debate over whether a striker could be a “nine-and-a-half” - a hybrid of the classic centre-forward and a creative attacking midfielder.
Kane is taking that in a new direction with the work he does in his own penalty area, the way he receives the ball in difficult situations deep in his own half but also the space he is able to find to spring attacks, the quality of his passing and doing this without compromising his ability to still score goals at an impressive rate.
Kane has clearly bought into what Mourinho is doing. Maybe it is not, ideally, the kind of football he wants to play but for now it is winning football and we know he has not hidden the fact he has reached a point in his career when he wants to be able to win trophies and not just personal accolades. Alan Shearer’s all-time Premier League scoring record is in Kane’s sights. He has 150 Premier League goals and if he maintains his present rate Kane should beat Shearer’s total of 260. Similarly, with 34 goals for England, he should pass Rooney’s mark of 53 goals.
But while those landmarks would be remarkable what do they mean without silverware? The obvious conclusion would be that Kane was at the wrong club and stayed there too long. “I’ve always said if I don’t feel we are progressing as a team or going in the right direction, I’m not going to stay there for the sake of it,” Kane said in an Instagram Live Q&A during the first lockdown and it is starting to feel like now or never when it comes to him and Spurs.
By accepting this Kane is also making himself a better player and a more unique player. He wears the number 10, he is titularly a number nine. But he is actually both and neither of those. We need to find a new name for the role of Harry Kane 2.0.
I’m not so impressed. Why focus on that aspect if his game instead of his amazing vision, passing, defending? I feel it just highlights what Kane is doing to the opposition which will help them wise up to it going forward and avoid it, so not sure the attention is as positive as it might seem.
Yeah, he comes across a bully in the studio to me. An example of this was when we played Chavs in one of the semi-finals/or finals under Poch. Jenus was absolutely spot on with his analysis IMO, Jenus was articulate, detailed. Shearer just responded with a cutting quip about possession means nothing, Chelsea won because they were better. There was zero analysis from him, zero explanation to back up what he was saying. What followed were fanboys on Twitter taking pleasure from Shearer publicly disrespecting a fellow colleague.
(There is always a very misguided rhetoric about possession teams being beaten by one that sits deep. They are usually passed off as a "masterclass" by the winning coach. When in reality so few of these games are masterclasses, they were pure luck. Us beating City at the weekend I don't mind that being called a "masterclass" because City was genuinely shut out the game and created almost nothing. But contrast that to last years game and that's as far away from masterclass as it gets, it was out and out luck. Just as Conte's win over us was).
I believe at that moment the BBC lost a very promising analyst in Jenus, who up until then was across many games offing great insight to what teams were doing and also offered possible things they should do to change it. He now has by and large toed-the-line in punditry and become just like so many others, all though it would seem to have to bow down to Sheraer's take that the winners were best and in his day he did this so everyone else must do the same.
I love Hoddle as a studio pundit but can't stand him on co-comms, I think this is just his voice and delivery and I find him on co-coms overly harsh on Spurs, he joined the Spurs are good brigade just as we had peaked and were on the wane, which still irks me somewhat (whilst simultaneously loving Chelsea). His sometimes over critical tone is I think a watered-down version of how he was supposed to be with his players when he was a manager when you rightly say he would then go on to demonstrate whatever it was by doing it himself. There's a great clip somewhere of him taking a Swindon training session and the players fucking up a free-kick, so he just starts taking them and ultimately not teaching/coaching them but the feeling was he was humiliating them or at least making them feel they were shit.
I'm going to clumsily take this back to the number ten.
A prophet has no honour in his own country' (John 4:44
A prophet has no honour in his own country' (John 4:44
He focussed on it, because other chumps have started making noises about him being a diver.
Carragher put that to bed.
If I'm honest it came across like Carragher wanted to make refs "wise up" to Kane. He added all this "I love him for it" to not be so transparent.
I'd even say Carragher tried to imply that legitimate actions are unsporting or as if it were part of the dark arts. Shielding the ball from oaf defender's and winning a foul for example.
I'd even say Carragher tried to imply that legitimate actions are unsporting or as if it were part of the dark arts. Shielding the ball from oaf defender's and winning a foul for example.