Harry Winks

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Winks was basically marking De Bruyne - the hardest job in England -, constantly being dragged to the left of the central midfield. He had help from Lo Celso, his pair in the pivot, coming from the right. Also, Dele Alli - again - worked super hard without the ball. Our defense was never exposed because of the team hard work.

Fair to say City wasted many chances, but, as you can see watching the full match replay, most of them came from individual mistakes - a bad pass from Sanchez, that silly penalty from Aurier -, or even referee mistakes, like a clear faul on Lo Celso (not given) that lead to that City counter ended with Gundogan miss.

Also, that anticipation and sprint that got us to play against 10 men... Look, I've seen a lot of people comparing Winks with early Carrick. But honestly, I also see a lot of Cambiasso in him.
 
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Ciro said:
Winks was basically making De Bruyne - the hardest job in England -, constantly being dragged to the left of the central midfield. He had help from Lo Celso, his pair in the pivot, coming from the right. Also, Dele Alli - again - worked super hard without the ball. Our defense was never exposed because of the team hard work.
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That's 100% true and that's what people usually forget about rating performances. When we are deeply fucked in terms of possession like against City, the work done without the ball gets more important than in other games. And in fact, Winksy had big problems holding his position and covering the pitch during last half year of Poch reign. It seems Jose changed it. Shame his shooting isn't the best, but still, he's gonna be, and in fact already is, great box to box midfielder.
 
he played well on sunday, But he was not playing his normal role
he was not taking the ball from the back four, felt he had a lot of help from GLC & GLC was the one moving the ball
not sure why he was better today, yet if he plays with Dier (who should be the DM) winks is not good enough
maybe its just that city missed their chances that shews my thoughts
 
rusty said:
he played well on sunday, But he was not playing his normal role
he was not taking the ball from the back four, felt he had a lot of help from GLC & GLC was the one moving the ball
not sure why he was better today, yet if he plays with Dier (who should be the DM) winks is not good enough
maybe its just that city missed their chances that shews my thoughts
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I think most of us here underestimate the fact City had a player sent off. But i gladly take the 3 points.
 
Park Lane Mark Twain said:
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Interesting point he makes about how he was in the mixed zone after the Champions League final.

From his celebrations, we can see that he's passionate, the question is, how is he able to transfer that in the dressing room, and on the pitch in order to benefit the whole team throughout the match, and not just provide great pictures after a goals been scored.
 
rusty said:
maybe its just that city missed their chances that shews my thoughts
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This is it in a nutshell. He made several fine interventions. He also tried to shift the ball quicker at times, which I appreciated. However, there were several occasions where he was ball-watching/not closing angles/letting City players get a run on him. City made a mess of some wonderful chances, so it gets overlooked.
 
Most of City chances came from individual mistakes - bad pass from Sanchez, Aurier penalty - or even referee mistakes - that miss from Gundogan it´s a counter from City that shouldn´t be allowed to go on, as Lo Celso was fouled on the other side of the pitch. Also, it´s not like they played with ten men out of nothing. In fact, by that time they should be playing with 9.
 
Spursdem said:
If you hate Harry WInks, you hate Spurs.

If you hate Erik Lamela, you hate Spurs.
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So, is hating someone different than believing they are just not good enough? My inclination is that you think it's the same thing, or at least that is the idea you are trying to project.

I don't hate Lamela, and I never have. But my view now is the same as it has always been. He's not good enough. His desire to do well, and his passion for the club and community is good. But he's nowhere near good enough for Spurs. Compare his quality to Bergwijn, Son and Alli, and he's no match. Even Moura, who I believe is not good enough to be anything more than a normal 70th-minute substitute, is quite far ahead. My view is that we should be adding another attacker in the summer (someone who can play striker and AM possibly), and let Erik go.

I'm conflicted on Winks. I think he's good enough to be a squad player (a rotation option, if you will) but he probably shouldn't be getting starts against the likes of City and Liverpool. For me, he's a good option to cover for injuries, occasional starter to give midfielders a rest, and option to fill out the squad in cup matches. Being homegrown obviously adds value to him.
 
Danius said:
So, is hating someone different than believing they are just not good enough? My inclination is that you think it's the same thing, or at least that is the idea you are trying to project.

I don't hate Lamela, and I never have. But my view now is the same as it has always been. He's not good enough. His desire to do well, and his passion for the club and community is good. But he's nowhere near good enough for Spurs. Compare his quality to Bergwijn, Son and Alli, and he's no match. Even Moura, who I believe is not good enough to be anything more than a normal 70th-minute substitute, is quite far ahead. My view is that we should be adding another attacker in the summer (someone who can play striker and AM possibly), and let Erik go.

I'm conflicted on Winks. I think he's good enough to be a squad player (a rotation option, if you will) but he probably shouldn't be getting starts against the likes of City and Liverpool. For me, he's a good option to cover for injuries, occasional starter to give midfielders a rest, and option to fill out the squad in cup matches. Being homegrown obviously adds value to him.
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Very well put
 
Danius said:
I'm conflicted on Winks. I think he's good enough to be a squad player (a rotation option, if you will) but he probably shouldn't be getting starts against the likes of City and Liverpool. For me, he's a good option to cover for injuries, occasional starter to give midfielders a rest, and option to fill out the squad in cup matches. Being homegrown obviously adds value to him.
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Which is weird as he's usually always one of our best players against those sort of clubs.

If his name was fancy and we'd signed him from Spain, he'd be rated higher.

Winks isn't perfect and of course he can be upgraded but man, the shit that gets aimed at him is beyond ridiculous at times.

"Poor defensively" - a go to one whenever we concede a goal and he happens to be on a pitch. Sissoko never once got the same bile and he's no better defensively.

"Doesn't pass forward" - despite facts confirming he's the most progressive passing midfielder u23 in the whole of Europe..

Are the two main ones.

I think what it is though is that people are trying to base and critique his game on how they FEEL he should be playing as opposed to judging him on the role he is meant to be playing, which is that of a player who's aim is to take the ball, make sure we keep it and give it to Lo Celso, Ndombele, Dele etc. To try and advance with it.
 
He was outstanding on Sunday, and what I loved was his reaction at the final whistle, he went to all sides of the stadium, with fists pumping and sheer delight for the win, another one of our own. He's maturing nicely.
 
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