there's no such word, so whats the point looking it up?
unless you mean the shampoo product
-
The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...
Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports
unless you mean the shampoo product
Shutup you are a known idiot.
I've had bowel movements that know more about football than you pal, and trust me, in comparison to the way you behave and express yourself, I'm at Einstein levels.
The commentators called him a tidy player last game. When your best attribute is you are tidy, that is probably not a good thing.
He has gotten so much worse over the years. Where is the player who actually use to carry the ball forward and attack? Literally just a negative player anymore.
He has gotten so much worse over the years. Where is the player who actually use to carry the ball forward and attack? Literally just a negative player anymore.
Depends what you mean by negative.
Only 3 players under 26 play more final third passes than Harry Winks.
The issue is, the other stat. Recoveries.
He isn't a DM.
You don't have your DM carry the ball forward and attack - that is why you're not getting him carrying the ball forward and attacking.
However, in that statistic, you can see why Hojbjerg is wanted.
Statsbomb comparison of Winks with other CM's - progressive passing (per 90 minutes and distance travelled).
This puts him in the top 3 or 4 in PL....but he's not defensively minded enough to be played alongside Lo Celso for example. And he's not a DM.
Skipp, who should be coming through into the first team more, is much more of a DM who has a decent progressive passing range a well.
Thought he was pretty good yesterday, we play better when he starts
In all honesty, he probably was.
He didn't shy away from the ball, put in some nice tackles and kept the ball moving. Didn't create much, but as our deepest midfielder, he probably isn't going to. He's started 2 games now and we've won 1 and drawn 1 - I was perplexed he didn't start or come on early against Sheff Utd.
Ultimately, going forward into next season he shouldn't be a starter but he definitely has his place in the squad. Against certain teams who are going camp in their own half, teams in the cup etc - he saves us millions trying to sign someone to do his job and be happy to sit on the bench.
Agreed.
When he sits directly in front of the D as a traditional 6 he's not that bad. Yesterday he was in this role with Sissoko and Lo Celso given more freedom to move up the pitch. Defensively when we didn't have the ball we dropped into a clear 3 man midfield with Lo Celso, Winks and Sissoko.
When he's in a double pivot, and is required to move up the field to support the attack, he's much more of a liability. He doesn't have the pace and athleticism to recover his positioning when we turn the ball over.
As you said, I think he'd make a decent backup #6 assuming we get a new destroyer to fill that role.
With that said, if we could sell him for 20 mil and plug Skipp into that role as a substitute, funding the purchase of a real starter, that might be what we have to do.
If we move to a midfield 3 next year, I actually would like to see Winks as a regular starter. Assuming we bring in a destroyer type DM...
Lo Celso-DM-Winks
I love the balance in that midfield grouping.
Until I see Winks make a pass that isn't sideways, backwards or under 5 yards I don't want to see him starting at all.
I don't know if he is regressing, I don't know if I was watching him with rose colored glasses in the past but this year he seems completely unable to make a pass going forward. I never remember this being an issue when he was younger or maybe it was less of an issue when we had Toby and Jan doing it for him but now he is as bad as Sissoko with the ball at his feet and a major reason why our attack is so slow and stagnant.
I like him but he really isn't creative enough. He doesn't get forward and break lines or make many goalscoring opportunities. He's had a couple injuries but hasn't really progressed besides just being a tidy recycler of the ball.
2 goals 2 assists in 170 appearances shows that.
I think he could a be a decent back up there but it would be better if he can play as a defensive mid himself.
Nope, I don't see value in such starting midfield.
What would be Winksy's role in that? To make up numbers?
Depending on what happens during the break between seasons, I could see midfield of
Lo Celso-DM-Ndombele
Or even
Lo Celso-DM-Sissoko - in this formation we would have one distroyer, one passer and one ball carrier / midfield hussler. So Sissoko would play say like Matuidi role. But Winks in that position makes bit less sense to me. Not fully sure why.
For rotational purposes I could see more -
Winks-DM-Ndombele
Do you even watch Winks play? He's got a great engine on him and consistently makes himself available as an option for others in possession. He's one of the few footballers in our squad comfortable in tight areas and rarely gives away possession (massive in today's era of tactics). His defensive game is something he can work on but he's still probably the best in our squad at playing that role (says a lot about the others) he's got a good turn of pace and uses his aggression well. Just because he doesn't burst players like Bale used to doesn't mean he can't cover ground! A great example of this was when he made a great tackle against Everton as last man after a brain fart from someone else in the squad. Please start watching him a bit more closely and try to take into consideration he's still youngish and an academy product who gives 100% every game. Lastly, you mention Skipp - who I am a big fan of and agree needs more game time. But he's nowhere near as physically capable as Winks at present so your being hypocritical in this sense.
Yes, I've watched Winks since he's played for the youth teams.
So approximately 8 years now.
Never said anything different.
Again, never said anything different.
He's a bit weak in the tackle - but it's not his game. Evident by trying to tackle Calvert-Lewin and just being brushed aside before Lo Celso came in and won it back.
Again, I've been watching him closely for 8+ years and have defended him on here numerous times when people bring up his backwards passing (Despite being one of the most progressive passers in Europe, especially with passes in the final third) and his lack of goals and assists (because he's playing deeper)
Skipp wasn't mentioned once in the post you quoted.
What I will say about Skipp is that he is more of a defensive midfielder than Winks and would be better served playing there than Winks, who isn't one. Regardless of how hard he works or trains to be one.
There's a place for both.
He's been played essentially as a holding midfielder for most games...I'm pretty sure Wanyama/Parker/Sandro didn't have many goals or assists either.
I think he's done well for us overall the last two seasons, playing in a role that is not exactly what most of us had in mind for him. His development was to shape him into more of a box-to-box player, even a 10 at times, but due to the lack of quality in our midfield, and no DM, he's had to play the deep lying role. It's no surprise that some of his best games for us were when he first came into the team, and had a proper ball winning midfielder next to him.
Sorry Totti, that reply wasn' meant to be a response to you and was meant to be for jrob38's post above.