Harry Winks

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No crapping on him. I am just saying that he is not a creative player. He has 2 assists in 28 games - and 1 of those was a shot that was way off target that deflected in.

Sure, he will improve and he needs to learn that he cannot hold onto the ball for so long. In Spain he was afforded more time on the ball. He looks great defensively and is full of energy when we apply a press. He is almost a clone of Lamela.
Lo Celso´s first season in the Premier League was not easy and I think he did pretty well under the circumstances. It took him a while to really get a chance in the first team, and when he did - and took control of our midfield -, we were playing without Kane and/or Son.

His 2 assists in 28 games don´t tell the whole story. Don´t rule out his final product just yet: last season at Betis, Lo Celso´s got 19 goals + assists in 33 matches between La Liga and Europa League.
 
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last season, at Betis, Lo Celso´s got 19 goals + assists in 33 matches between La Liga and Europa League.
This season 35 year old Roberto Soldado got 18 goals and assists in Spain. Cheeky summer bid?

:avbshit:


Lo Celso has averaged 1 goal assist every 7 games across his La Liga/EPL career. He is not a creator of key passes leading to goals.

The player he replaced (Eriksen) has averaged 1 assist in 3.
 
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This season 35 year old Roberto Soldado got 18 goals and assists in Spain. Cheeky summer bid?

:avbshit:


Lo Celso has averaged 1 goal assist every 7 games across his La Liga/EPL career. He is not a creator of key passes leading to goals.

The player he replaced (Eriksen) has averaged 1 assist in 3.
First of all, wrong information. Soldado didn't get 18 goals and assists this season - he´s got 7 goals and 4 assists in La Liga (played 33 games), and 4 goals in the Copa Del Rey. By the way, Soldado is a striker, not a number 8.

But honestly, there´s no point in undervaluing Spanish football and bringing Roberto Soldado to the discussion just to make a point about Lo Celso being bad. Especially, in a topic about Harry Winks.
 
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TommyD123

Supporter
Cannot understand the Winks hatred. Adds to the team and is pure Spurs.
However, if he’s not in our best XI come the start of next season that’ll be a positive sign as it’ll mean we’ve improved, brought some bodies in and potentially integrated NDombele.
But of our current 1st XI I would argue Aurier, Sissoko, Davies and Lucas are all also upgradable to a similar or greater degree.
 
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Cannot understand the Winks hatred. Adds to the team and is pure Spurs.
However, if he’s not in our best XI come the start of next season that’ll be a positive sign as it’ll mean we’ve improved, brought some bodies in and potentially integrated NDombele.
But of our current 1st XI I would argue Aurier, Sissoko, Davies and Lucas are all also upgradable to a similar or greater degree.
How?
How does taking a pass, looking around, then passing it to whoever is closest to him adding to the team?
That's hiding. That's failing to attempt to make something happen. That's holding back our chances of building an attack.
It's exactly what I do when I play football and it's because I'd rather do that than fuck up doing something ambitious.
 
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Cannot understand the Winks hatred. Adds to the team and is pure Spurs.
However, if he’s not in our best XI come the start of next season that’ll be a positive sign as it’ll mean we’ve improved, brought some bodies in and potentially integrated NDombele.
But of our current 1st XI I would argue Aurier, Sissoko, Davies and Lucas are all also upgradable to a similar or greater degree.
What hatred?

Is correctly pointing out that he is not good enough now considered hatred?

I am have been as vocal a critic of him as any I think but I always try to mention that he seems like a good guy and loves the club. The problem is that shouldn't come into play when deciding who plays on the weekend. Being pure Spurs doesn't make up for the fact he struggles to make a simple forward pass and is incapable of making insightful passes to beat defenses and open things up for us.
 
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No way Son starts at ManC, and I'd be fucking amazed if Klopp would be interested in a player as hopelessly flimsy without the ball as Son is unless he could score at least 30 goals a season.

Lets be honest, when he's not scoring wonderful goals, he's like a turtle in a fucking windsock, can barely manage a three yard pass without fucking it up, and for the last month he's been on one of his regular month long wankathons.

Fucking dreadful today, again.
Well prepare to be amazed... as Klopp already tried to sign Son back at bvb: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...AhAB&usg=AOvVaw3o-UwFLrmj7ae142fyZFG1&ampcf=1
 
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How?
How does taking a pass, looking around, then passing it to whoever is closest to him adding to the team?
That's hiding. That's failing to attempt to make something happen. That's holding back our chances of building an attack.
It's exactly what I do when I play football and it's because I'd rather do that than fuck up doing something ambitious.
Perhaps it’s what he’s been asked to do?
 
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What hatred?

Is correctly pointing out that he is not good enough now considered hatred?

I am have been as vocal a critic of him as any I think but I always try to mention that he seems like a good guy and loves the club. The problem is that shouldn't come into play when deciding who plays on the weekend. Being pure Spurs doesn't make up for the fact he struggles to make a simple forward pass and is incapable of making insightful passes to beat defenses and open things up for us.
He keeps getting picked by successive managers (as do Sissoko, Aurier, Davies, Dier) - perhaps he’s not expected to do the things you’re wanting him to? The managers are seeing things you’re not or don’t want to see. Certainly the passive football that Winks plays has a place in any Mourinho team - his role in the MF would never be to take the ball on - that’s Coco, Lucas or Son. I think we’re expecting our MFs to be Dembele or Wanyama - they’re different players so are expected to play in different ways.
 
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He keeps getting picked by successive managers (as do Sissoko, Aurier, Davies, Dier) - perhaps he’s not expected to do the things you’re wanting him to? The managers are seeing things you’re not or don’t want to see. Certainly the passive football that Winks plays has a place in any Mourinho team - his role in the MF would never be to take the ball on - that’s Coco, Lucas or Son. I think we’re expecting our MFs to be Dembele or Wanyama - they’re different players so are expected to play in different ways.
I am not sure him being selected a lot last year when our team clearly struggled is a ringing endorsement of him.
 
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I am not sure him being selected a lot last year when our team clearly struggled is a ringing endorsement of him.
What was the alternative? Always easy to criticise but clearly the best players available to Poch (and Jose) for the role that was required (same as Sissoko).

If you’re looking at when we were struggling, it was also a ‘sum of parts’ - whole team were rough for most of the season. Kane was trying to carry the whole team, hence the overdoing it for his injury. Eriksen was best of a bad bunch in the middle; Sonny blew hot and cold; Lucas was Lucas; Coco injured (and huff and puff with little product in the final third after his good start to the season); defence were all over the place. Not sure we can blame Winks for all of that.

At least he was ‘neat and tidy’.
 
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winks plays better with a proper DM behind him Locelso would play better with a proper DM behind him Ndombele would have played better with a proper DM behind hell SIssoko would of play better with a proper Dm behind him this is our midfield more or less none of them are even remotely good at DM a guess we need a DM to get proper use out of all these midfielders we have.
 
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They are reported to be sniffing around Sarr. And I can see why.
There's some good raw materials there for sure, that physical power and pace thing going on with some technical ability, the brain is the only area of doubt with him I think, but I thought the same about Mane when they signed him, and look how that worked out.

I think if I was given a choice of taking a punt on Sarr or Bergwijn, I'd have taken Sarr. But there are others, like Eze and Stengs that are way ahead on my list.
 
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winks plays better with a proper DM behind him Locelso would play better with a proper DM behind him Ndombele would have played better with a proper DM behind hell SIssoko would of play better with a proper Dm behind him this is our midfield more or less none of them are even remotely good at DM a guess we need a DM to get proper use out of all these midfielders we have.
We’ve had players out of position for about half of the year - Tanganga across the back; Winks / Sissoko as DM; Sissoko as covering WB; Foyth as RB; Dier as DM; Son as CF; Lucas as CF; Alli as box-to-box...Kane as 10 and 9...it’s no surprise that things haven’t gone too well. Why we think that {insert player name here} can play {insert position here} is beyond me- these lads have been trained for one position for most of their professional careers - that’s why they play there.

Losing Dembele and Wanyama meant others having to drop in to cover for their roles and is where it started going wrong, for me - it means that - as well as match-to-match tactics, you’re having to think more about your role and positioning much more than you habitually should.
 
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Five

Supporter
The Tottenham Way
There's some good raw materials there for sure, that physical power and pace thing going on with some technical ability, the brain is the only area of doubt with him I think, but I thought the same about Mane when they signed him, and look how that worked out.
The more I have seen of Sarr, the more I have been impressed by his decision-making/end product. In the last couple of days, I have watched his performances against Woolwich and West Ham, and been pleasantly surprised by the lack of waste/his ability to retain possession. I think he blows Bergwijn out of the water in terms of his attacking threat. As a matter of fact, I am not even sure Bergwijn is better than Jarrod Bowen, whom I have seen a little bit of recently, especially taking the HG aspect into consideration.

I love Stengs, but do you know who is agent is?
 
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The more I have seen of Sarr, the more I have been impressed by his decision-making/end product. In the last couple of days, I have watched his performances against Woolwich and West Ham, and been pleasantly surprised by the lack of waste/his ability to retain possession. I think he blows Bergwijn out of the water in terms of his attacking threat. As a matter of fact, I am not even sure Bergwijn is better than Jarrod Bowen, whom I have seen a little bit of recently, especially taking the HG aspect into consideration.

I love Stengs, but do you know who is agent is?
I don't think that's always the been the case with Sarr, I've watched him plenty (inc in France) and thought his decision making definitely needed work, but players do evolve and develop and it's not always an overnight process, good coaches can help etc...As I said, I thought Mane was an explosive flibity gibit, all limbs and no grey matter, but he's evolved under Klopp.

Have you watched the French cup final from last night yet? I watched your boy Caqueret. He's a busy little fucker isn't he.
 
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