Heung-Min Son (손흥민)

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When it comes to final 3rd play, he's been the best in the league over the past couple seasons, not just our team. But I get what daveyboy88 is saying - Son is just bang average against certain teams in terms of build up play. That said, I don't think we have enough goals/assists in our team to risk taking Son out, especially given that we're playing to win trophies now.


we know kane can help build up as can kulu, richarlison proved today he can too. i think thats the 3 to go with against the more stubborn sides. you need players who can collectively get on the ball and all help break a side down. when the oppo is open then sons first name on the team sheet. some of these nitwits cant understand that though, it goes straight over their head. watching a sport they have fuck all understanding of.

sons stats would also be through the roof if he was used as an impact sub in these games when we are already ahead and the other teams stepped up to come and get something from the game. hed probably scoore a couple in 30 mins instead of none in 90 because hes been a factor in us not being able to break them down, resulting in a draw or even worse a 1-0 defeat.
 
we know kane can help build up as can kulu, richarlison proved today he can too. i think thats the 3 to go with against the more stubborn sides. you need players who can collectively get on the ball and all help break a side down. when the oppo is open then sons first name on the team sheet. some of these nitwits cant understand that though, it goes straight over their head. watching a sport they have fuck all understanding of.

sons stats would also be through the roof if he was used as an impact sub in these games when we are already ahead and the other teams stepped up to come and get something from the game. hed probably scoore a couple in 30 mins instead of none in 90 because hes been a factor in us not being able to break them down, resulting in a draw or even worse a 1-0 defeat.
Yeah I mean... lets see what Richarlison brings at LW and CF. Don't want to get overly excited about him yet as he's yet to have a goal contribution. But I get where you're coming from.
 
Yeah I mean... lets see what Richarlison brings at LW and CF. Don't want to get overly excited about him yet as he's yet to have a goal contribution. But I get where you're coming from.
yet to have a goal contribution but can already see against sides looking to counter hes going to be more useful in the front line than son. the ball wont break down when it gets to him every time.
 
I don't think Conte will ever drop Son unless it's just to rest him for a CL game etc..

Just basing this on his comments to the media at the start of the year when he had a patch of bad form and a journalist then asked if he would drop Sonny. Conte the replied that he would be stupid to drop Sonny.. so can't see it happening.

Also I disagree that he is useless in these games.. as he is one of the best finishers in the world. So if it comes down to it.. having him on, even if it's to attempt some long rangers, then it's worth it. I have not seen anything from the other rotation options that proves they would do any better.

But yes, rotation of all of our squad and particularly our forwards will be necessary this season to some degree.

I dont think Conte said

he would be stupid to drop Sonny..

Conte said he was not crazy to do such a thing as dropping Sonny.
 
yet to have a goal contribution but can already see against sides looking to counter hes going to be more useful in the front line than son. the ball wont break down when it gets to him every time.
That might be the case but I doubt that starting Richarlison over Son is going to magically help us beat teams that park the bus. We're still going to be shit at breaking down defenses because no one on our team is particularly good at it other than maybe Kulu or Lucas but I wouldn't call them great at it either.

I think the better solution is to address the void we have in our squad and something that I've been calling out for since Eriksen left. We need a bona fide creative playmaker that can control possession and execute a slick pass - something we thought Ndombele and/or GLC could do but we've yet to find that player. If we find this player (Maddison?), then we're set.
 
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Looks quite the outlier from the graph...wish they gave us the underlying stats to figure it out...

BvyiHhH.png


The most interesting thing about this is that there are two extreme outliers in terms of overexceeding xG in open play (not shown in this graph) and not having a very small sample size:

Son and... Messi.

One explained by being the most talented player in the history of football, Messi. The other being explained by a meticulous construction, paired with enough talent and extremely hard work.

Heung-Min's father did not allow him to practice finishing until he was 15 years of age, it seems that would be a paradox, but it's not! It's just like in boxing, where many coaches won't let you throw a punch until you've learned the correct footwork and stance. Which, for you who know boxing, coincidentally is exactly what Lomachenko's father practiced in extremes. He wouldn't even let his son start boxing before his son enrolled in ballet-classes, and notoriously also made his son, much like Heung-Min's father did to him, go through excruciating exercise.

Speaking of ballet! Another one of our extreme outlier of players in years past is often likened to a tank in the shoes of a ballerina: Dembele.
... and he also grew up learning football in an unorthodox way, on the street with a pole for a goal.

Makes you wonder which one would be most important
1.Talent
2.Brutally hard work
3.Correctly structured work

I think I would prefer if our academy prioritized Structure at first, and then as they grow older they have to both show Talent and Hard Work.

The point of what I'm writing is that I'd really hope our staff at Spurs are looking at examples like Son and Dembele and exploring how you could structure the academy so that you build the right habits and skills from the beginning. I know these concepts are not unfamiliar in academies having gone to one myself, but they are usually just incorporated as a mish-mash of exercises sprinkled about the regular stuff.

Well, time for me to stop rambling.
 
yea it will result in them maybe not parking the bus. but if we are afraid of an open game against inferior players with the players we have then what the fuck are we doing. we want these weaker sides to be more open. i dont think they will become more open just because son isnt in the team. they play the same way against city, just city have players all over the pitch capable of opening things up when they are on the ball.

weve seen the same thing happen time and time again with kane and son in the team, kane isnt the problem against the busses, we can all see son is very limited player in tight spaces. its time to react to the situation. get a goal or two up then bring son on, then we will smash these bottom half shthouses and not only get the points we needed but get a nice healthy GD in the process.

it should be pretty clear long ago to anyone who understands the game why we are good against sides who come and have a go and not against parked busses, son! devastating when he has space to run into but hes a passenger at best in the more complex games when we have to be creative.

sons in the top few forwards in the world when it comes to playing counter attacking football, the problem is mushrooms just think that means hes good in all situations when thats the not case, horses for courses. i guarantee if we play without him against the parked busses we beat them and dont struggle like we have done for years. richarlisnon- kane- kulu would get the job done, all interchanging would be a nightmare. some people will just never understand how players can be good against the better sides but a hindrance against the weaker, it just doesnt make sense to the mushrooms.
Sure if we dropped Son teams would probably be more inclined to come at us. Similarly you’d also get teams to stop parking the bus against us if Kane was dropped so we could go with Son/Richarlison/Kulu or Richarlison/Son/Kulu if our goal was to lure teams out of the low block. We would beat inferior teams with that front three and then could bring on Kane as a supersub if needed.

The good thing is, we have flexibility. Singling out Son and thinking that dropping him is going to result in us battering the low block is wishful thinking but I think we'd all be happy to see what different front 3 combinations look like.

Also, I just took a look at our results without Son over the past 3 years, and as expected, we don't look good. We have just 9 wins in 26 games. And 4 of those 9 wins came against Ludogretz, Wolfsberger, Marine FC and Morecambe...

In those 26 games, I don't know how many teams parked the bus against us but I assume many did.

Premier League
8/10/19 - Aston Villa - Win (3-1)
8/17/19 - Man City - Draw (2-2)
12/26/19 - Brighton - Win (2-1)
12/28/19 - Norwich - Draw (2-2)
1/1/20 - Southampton - Loss (1-0)
2/22/20 - Chelsea - Loss (2-1)
3/1/20 - Wolves - Loss (2-3)
3/7/20 - Burnley - Draw (1-1)
3/21/21 - Aston Villa - Win (2-0)
9/11/21 - Palace - Loss (3-0)
1/19/22 - Leicester - Win (2-3)
1/23/22 - Chelsea - Loss (2-0)

FA Cup
3/4/20 - Norwich - Loss (on pens)
1/10/21 - Marine FC - Win (5-0)
1/9/22 - Morecambe - Win (3-1)

EFL Cup
9/29/20 - Chelsea - Win (on pens)
1/12/22 - Chelsea - Loss (1-0)

Champions League
2/19/20 - RB Leipzig - Loss (1-0)
3/10/20 - RB Leipzig - Loss (3-0)

Europa League
11/26/20 - Ludogorets - Win (4-0)
2/24/21 - Wolfsberger - Win (4-0)
3/18/21 - Dinamo Zagreb - Loss (3-0)

Europa Conference League
8/19/21 - Pacos - Loss (1-0)
9/16/21 - Rennais - Draw (2-2)
10/21/21 - Vitesse - Loss (1-0)
12/9/21 - Rennais - Loss (3-0)
 
Sure if we dropped Son teams would probably be more inclined to come at us. Similarly you’d also get teams to stop parking the bus against us if Kane was dropped so we could go with Son/Richarlison/Kulu or Richarlison/Son/Kulu if our goal was to lure teams out of the low block. We would beat inferior teams with that front three and then could bring on Kane as a supersub if needed.

The good thing is, we have flexibility. Singling out Son and thinking that dropping him is going to result in us battering the low block is wishful thinking but I think we'd all be happy to see what different front 3 combinations look like.

Also, I just took a look at our results without Son over the past 3 years, and as expected, we don't look good. We have just 9 wins in 26 games. And 4 of those 9 wins came against Ludogretz, Wolfsberger, Marine FC and Morecambe...

In those 26 games, I don't know how many teams parked the bus against us but I assume many did.

Premier League
8/10/19 - Aston Villa - Win (3-1)
8/17/19 - Man City - Draw (2-2)
12/26/19 - Brighton - Win (2-1)
12/28/19 - Norwich - Draw (2-2)
1/1/20 - Southampton - Loss (1-0)
2/22/20 - Chelsea - Loss (2-1)
3/1/20 - Wolves - Loss (2-3)
3/7/20 - Burnley - Draw (1-1)
3/21/21 - Aston Villa - Win (2-0)
9/11/21 - Palace - Loss (3-0)
1/19/22 - Leicester - Win (2-3)
1/23/22 - Chelsea - Loss (2-0)

FA Cup
3/4/20 - Norwich - Loss (on pens)
1/10/21 - Marine FC - Win (5-0)
1/9/22 - Morecambe - Win (3-1)

EFL Cup
9/29/20 - Chelsea - Win (on pens)
1/12/22 - Chelsea - Loss (1-0)

Champions League
2/19/20 - RB Leipzig - Loss (1-0)
3/10/20 - RB Leipzig - Loss (3-0)

Europa League
11/26/20 - Ludogorets - Win (4-0)
2/24/21 - Wolfsberger - Win (4-0)
3/18/21 - Dinamo Zagreb - Loss (3-0)

Europa Conference League
8/19/21 - Pacos - Loss (1-0)
9/16/21 - Rennais - Draw (2-2)
10/21/21 - Vitesse - Loss (1-0)
12/9/21 - Rennais - Loss (3-0)
I do think the pressure on Son & Kane to play every game has been too much- they've both had periods where they're tired.
This is where I hope Richarlison steps up and is able to step in at either LW or CF when needed.
 
Imagine thinking we should drop golden boot winner Son.

Embarrassing posting. Anti-son agenda from a supposed spurs fan. Shameful
youre one of the chief mushrooms that havent got a clue what youre watching lol silly little clown.

no point even debating with a simpleton like you because its a waste of time, dont have the brain capacity to understand something so simple.
 
youre one of the chief mushrooms that havent got a clue what youre watching lol silly little clown.

no point even debating with a simpleton like you because its a waste of time, dont have the brain capacity to understand something so simple.

If all else fails resort to unnecessary personal attacks, well done mate. :thumbup:
 
If all else fails resort to unnecessary personal attacks, well done mate. :thumbup:
well sometimes you've got to call a spade a spade. 'anti son agenda' when i just said hes in the top 5 forwards in the world when it comes to countering. too many mushrooms who dont understand the game.

not here to debate with irrational cringe worthy numpties anyway, luckily theres a few that are rational and make good points.
 
thought was poor today. in terms of actual football and linking up, hes last in the front line. when a games open up and a team has to step out hes devastating, but against a side like roma today whos tight and compact he doesnt know what to do, hes a passenger in games like today and a waste of an asset. id like to see conte drop him in games when we require more build up quality and bring him on when we are ahead to finish the game.

lets see if conte has the balls to do it. a fresh son for 30-35 ins against a side losing and chasing really would be a weapon.
lol you always think Son is poor. Some ppl are too dumb to think that dropping a golden boot winner who also provides so many key chances is a good idea.
 
well sometimes you've got to call a spade a spade. 'anti son agenda' when i just said hes in the top 5 forwards in the world when it comes to countering. too many mushrooms who dont understand the game.

not here to debate with irrational cringe worthy numpties anyway, luckily theres a few that are rational and make good points.
Top 5 forward only when countering?
I wonder who doesn't understand the game lol.

:contefacepalm2:
 
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Ouch
Lock up your daughters
or let them out whichever school you are in lol
Son must rake in an absolute fortune in sponsorship deals. I get the sense that his Spurs contract excludes image rights in Korea (possibly even globally) and he (or his agency) gets 100% of everything from these deals in Korea.

Wouldn't surprise me one bit if he's the highest earning PL player after Ronaldo (and now Haaland?). Players like KDB might be better, and get a hefty sum under the table for the oil sheikhs, but none have Son's marketability.
 
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