In search of Mourinho's successor.

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Poch's main limitation at the time was his relative inability to think on his feet during a game and make tactical changes.
Like when Juventus turned us over with a very clever substitution late on.
I think Poch's substitutions were getting too obvious in both the timing of them and who was coming off and on. I also found the view of him and his assistants with their tablets infront of them all the time a wee bit depressing - yes big data stuff matters but I think during the game a manager should trust his instincts.
But that stuff comes with time - life is a journey after all. On all other levels Poch is a world-class manager, and he is the best in the world in developing talent.
 
'best footballing side in the country', did we get an open top bus parade for that title as I think I missed it?

Poch had the tools, he failed massively to use them and that was why (quite rightly) he was sacked.

The general consensus among the pundits up’n till last season was that the football played by spurs was the best to watch and most were dumbfounded that such a side failed to win something under Poch.

Take your argument to the pundits on Talksport, on 5Live, on Sky, and on the BBC... they said it so often that I happen to believe it!
 
The general consensus among the pundits up’n till last season was that the football played by spurs was the best to watch and most were dumbfounded that such a side failed to win something under Poch.

Take your argument to the pundits on Talksport, on 5Live, on Sky, and on the BBC... they said it so often that I happen to believe it!
You totally missed my point.
 
Poch had the tools, he failed massively to use them and that was why (quite rightly) he was sacked.

I don’t agree. Poch on numerous occasions alluded to the reality that he required fresh blood and obviously a large purse. He was sacked because sufficient funds for his taking things further were not available; and his being at loggerheads was very public.

In essence, he was saying his team is not good enough- that he had taken them as far as he could.... no wonder he lost the dressing room. You say he had the tools and didn’t use them- I say he requested more tools and was denied them!
 
I agree. I think a lot depends on the last 6 games. If we carry on as we have been and only win say 1 or even 0 of the remaining fixtures that will be only 1 or 2 wins in the last 15 fixtures. It doesnt matter who you are or your reputation, no manager at any big club would survive that. Win 3 or 4 with better perfomances then i'd imagine he'll likely stay but as you say if they are fixated on a target we know how ruthless Levy can be. I wouldnt be shocked if they had put the feelers out already.

I find it difficult to see us winning too many over last 6. Let’s face it, just about every crunch game all season, we’ve been terrible, no urgency or Intensity. We’re a classic team on the beach now. Mid table obscurity with nothing to play for. We’ve to play the likes of Leicester and travel to Bournemouth who are still playing for something.
 
I don’t agree. Poch on numerous occasions alluded to the reality that he required fresh blood and obviously a large purse. He was sacked because sufficient funds for his taking things further were not available; and his being at loggerheads was very public.

In essence, he was saying his team is not good enough- that he had taken them as far as he could.... no wonder he lost the dressing room. You say he had the tools and didn’t use them- I say he requested more tools and was denied them!

Pretty much.

Pochettino followed Bielsa’s model of building a youthful, pacy, and powerful team that will press relentlessly then get burnt out after two or three years. That worked very well for two-three years, then we hit a wall. He brought in some young players to try and maintain the continuity, but when it didn’t gel he tried adapting an ageing team by using the diamond, and we know how well that went.

I don’t really blame any of the parties involved. Levy couldn’t be expected to bankroll wholesale squad upgrades, and Pochettino was operating (and struggling) in uncharted waters in his managerial career. But yes, he no longer has the tools and was denied replacements.
 
The Bielsa Burnout is very real. Now teams are combining a high press with extraordinary pace and movement at all times - I think even Liverpool could get burnt out soon and the days of continued success may be behind us as teams simply exhaust themselves out in two or three seasons. The physical demands are extraordinary and players are picking up injuries increasingly early on in their careers.
 
....I'd still love to see a coach who could try bringing back 'Push & Run'...

Poch got pretty close to what I imagine watching push and run would be like, 'the pressing game' is the modern version of it I guess... but as a team we had limitations with getting that going properly under Poch's reign... Lloris's distribution being one of them!!

Jose's style is more 'Push and Off'
 
....I'd still love to see a coach who could try bringing back 'Push & Run'...

Poch got pretty close to what I imagine watching push and run would be like, 'the pressing game' is the modern version of it I guess... but as a team we had limitations with getting that going properly under Poch's reign... Lloris's distribution being one of them!!

Jose's style is more 'Push and Off'
I never saw the push and run sides, but the backstory is very interesting, with Arthur Rowe developing it then giving it to the Hungarians on a lecture tour, they duly smashed the England team at Wembley.
Interesting that Rowe suffered personal burnout and had to leave the club as he couldn't maintain the incredibly high standards it requires - everything has to be perfect to work like a high performance car. Similar thing to Total Football.
I think over time the game normally reverts to a Ford Mondeo type of play, I always thought Fergie's sides were like that in many ways, they got you there to the trophy but never did you watch them play and think that's just changed my life watching that. I'd say the same about Mourinho's teams.
The demand for winning in style undoubtedly came from our Push and Run legacy so you could argue it's a bit of a curse in some ways too.
 
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Sometimes I look at a Southampton or a Sheffield United performance and wonder if we now have a squad who have developed egos rather than the peak Poch team with everyone willing to run through a brick wall if he asked them to.

I'm not entirely sure what the fix is. There are definitely egos in the Man City squad but they deliver for Pep (but perhaps success makes obedience easier).
 
Sometimes I look at a Southampton or a Sheffield United performance and wonder if we now have a squad who have developed egos rather than the peak Poch team with everyone willing to run through a brick wall if he asked them to.

I'm not entirely sure what the fix is. There are definitely egos in the Man City squad but they deliver for Pep (but perhaps success makes obedience easier).

I still think getting to the CL final broke the squad. The ego of getting to the biggest game in club football, and the demoralising effect of not showing up for it.

They had the chance to be legends, but went down with a whimper.
 
Sometimes I look at a Southampton or a Sheffield United performance and wonder if we now have a squad who have developed egos rather than the peak Poch team with everyone willing to run through a brick wall if he asked them to.

I'm not entirely sure what the fix is. There are definitely egos in the Man City squad but they deliver for Pep (but perhaps success makes obedience easier).
Our last year under Poch reeks of an ego problem. How many games against "lesser teams" did we spend most of the game fucking about only to suddenly be 1 or 2 goals down and having to fix things? We seemed to think that as long as we played fancy football the win would come by default instead of fighting for it.

Poch was great at instilling a philosophy, but not on how to handle things when the philosophy was cracking and needed to adapt.

My take is that Poch, like everyone else (the players and Levy) got too comfortable with his position. He was the next great manager but he forgot that he became that by being a manager that could take a right back out of Burnley that barely cost 7 mil and turning him into a England international, taking a kid out of MK Dons and making him one of the most sought after youths in football. Taking a kid out of the academy and making him England captain etc. Poch's big strength was that he did not need a big chequebook to build a strong team. He could make players better. But during the last year or so he seemed to forget about that and started being your regular chequebook manager.

My take is that Pep never allows that complacency to settle. One factor may be his own title rack, but some is probably also in his personality. Poch just lacked the experience I think.

The plus for us is that Jose doesn't allow that either. The negative is that we right now lack players that can respond to him mentally, and be his voice on the field. That has to be key for us this summer, recruiting the right mentality, not just quality.
 
I still think getting to the CL final broke the squad. The ego of getting to the biggest game in club football, and the demoralising effect of not showing up for it.

They had the chance to be legends, but went down with a whimper.
I'd say yes and no. I do think it gave playing and backroom staff such emotional whiplash that every problem we were accumulating (and our league form/performances show that) came to a head.

The flip side is to look at how the Liverpool team that got all the way to the final and fell short to Real Madrid knew exactly how to pick themselves up after that and improve.

In typical Spurs fashion, the timing of those CL finals in each club's cycle galvanised one and destroyed the other. It makes sense when, if you think about it, Liverpool's first final was the equivalent of us at the end of the Leicester title season.

I hold basically all the club hierarchy responsible for not identifying the bleeding obvious and taking proactive measures to steer the ship back on track. The 'stitch in time saves nine' metaphor writ large. One might suggest there's additional Spursiness in the timing of the stadium build too as (fantastic as it is) Levy clearly funnelled his attention into that.

If only John Henry had bought us, eh?
 
If only John Henry had bought us, eh?

Don't forget that FSG employed Dalglish and Rodgers, and that until the last 2 seasons had a paltry spending record, poor on field results, and had the supporters on their back wishing them out of the club.

Winning, of course, changes everything...but everyone is feting their ownership as some miracle sent to Anfield to win trophies. Until very recently they were considered shit too.

If Henry had bought Spurs I doubt very much that anything would be different (or at least better). Other than our training ground would still be outdated and there'd still be a steel works North of the newly painted White Hart Lane.
 
....I'd still love to see a coach who could try bringing back 'Push & Run'...

Poch got pretty close to what I imagine watching push and run would be like, 'the pressing game' is the modern version of it I guess... but as a team we had limitations with getting that going properly under Poch's reign... Lloris's distribution being one of them!!

Jose's style is more 'Push and Off'
Players are too lazy! Your not going get modern footballers putting in a shift like that on a regular basis a one maybe cup game or a must win but not all the time.
 
Sometimes I look at a Southampton or a Sheffield United performance and wonder if we now have a squad who have developed egos rather than the peak Poch team with everyone willing to run through a brick wall if he asked them to.

I'm not entirely sure what the fix is. There are definitely egos in the Man City squad but they deliver for Pep (but perhaps success makes obedience easier).
The ego thing has always been a major problem - hence the idea no player is bigger than the team. Like when Fergie shipped out Ince when he started calling himself the Guvnor.
All success in life is 99 percent perspiration overall, and a lot of players fail to make it to the pro grades because they were too naturally gifted early on and so never developed a work effort.
But at Spurs, I think that the training ground, luxury hotel before games, and the general pampering are having a mixed effect. On the one hand they are improving standards in terms of conditioning and overall fitness, but it is arguably that the players are basically going to Disneyland every day and being pampered.
Interestingly the AC Milan team of the 80s had the option to improve their training facilities but decided against it as they thought it would soften the players up too much.
Now all our players have made it in the sense they never have to work again - how exactly do you motivate a multimillionaire at that point?
The Sheff Uniteds of this world will continue to do well as long as they are organised as their players will simply have more desire than those signed by the top sides, who instantly become multimillionaires.
 
The ego thing has always been a major problem - hence the idea no player is bigger than the team. Like when Fergie shipped out Ince when he started calling himself the Guvnor.
All success in life is 99 percent perspiration overall, and a lot of players fail to make it to the pro grades because they were too naturally gifted early on and so never developed a work effort.
But at Spurs, I think that the training ground, luxury hotel before games, and the general pampering are having a mixed effect. On the one hand they are improving standards in terms of conditioning and overall fitness, but it is arguably that the players are basically going to Disneyland every day and being pampered.
Interestingly the AC Milan team of the 80s had the option to improve their training facilities but decided against it as they thought it would soften the players up too much.
Now all our players have made it in the sense they never have to work again - how exactly do you motivate a multimillionaire at that point?
The Sheff Uniteds of this world will continue to do well as long as they are organised as their players will simply have more desire than those signed by the top sides, who instantly become multimillionaires.
To an extent I agree... but then how do OTHER Clubs' Multimillionaires motivate themselves to win ahead of OUR multimillionaires...?
You're not telling me that Man City, Chelsea or Liverpool's players don't get pampered and spoilt...?
Or does it take a certain type of multimillionaire to win trophies?

I'd love the analogy to be 100% accurate, but by that logic, teams like Leicester should be winning the League EVERY year, rather than bucking the trend.

Weirdly, I think we fall between two stools;
On one hand we're able to act and 'come across' as a big club to the players, (and to the opposition, who still always see us as a 'scalp', regardless of our league position....)
Then again, we play like we're a mid-table mediocre club, with deluded fans who can't accept our true status!
 
To an extent I agree... but then how do OTHER Clubs' Multimillionaires motivate themselves to win ahead of OUR multimillionaires...?
You're not telling me that Man City, Chelsea or Liverpool's players don't get pampered and spoilt...?
Or does it take a certain type of multimillionaire to win trophies?

I'd love the analogy to be 100% accurate, but by that logic, teams like Leicester should be winning the League EVERY year, rather than bucking the trend.

Weirdly, I think we fall between two stools;
On one hand we're able to act and 'come across' as a big club to the players, (and to the opposition, who still always see us as a 'scalp', regardless of our league position....)
Then again, we play like we're a mid-table mediocre club, with deluded fans who can't accept our true status!

There is a high turnover of players at Man City, Chelsea and Liverpool - the model assumes that players lose interest after a while so they sell them on, something they can afford to do, whereas we can't. They also have more squad depth so there is greater internal competition. Liverpool replaced over half their squad; City and Chelsea are consistently shipping in and shipping out quality players.
We have quality players now who were once motivated like Dele but they've been here too long and gotten complacent; nice people but the fight in them has disappeared.
Some of our players were at their best when they'd graduated from the Academy or just come to the club at a young age and were fighting for a place, like Danny Rose, Walker, Dele, Trippier.
Kane is the exception to all this as he has always been dedicated and ambitious - and that's why he will probably leave this summer, and who can blame him.
For the record I think the defeatest culture started to change at Spurs when Jol signed the pitbull Davids, who apparently had no qualms about ripping into players at half time.
I think we are seeing a gradual shift, insofar as teams like Sheff United are leapfrogging teams like Spurs and Everton and this is a trend that may continue.
 
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