Is it just me ?

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ArcspacE

ENIC OUT NOW !!! ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐
I think Jose was right about the lack of respect against us due to having less trophies over the years than our Top 6 rivals historically

Cant help but think some of those decisions against us would have been given for Liverpool and Utd for example
 
You can't celebrate a goal anymore as you need to wait for VAR to give it their seal of approval. This open to interpretation handball farce has killed it for me.

This is probably the worst thing. Don't think I have ever fully celebrated a goal with VAR. You can't even be sure when it's a screamer from 30m.
 
This is probably the worst thing. Don't think I have ever fully celebrated a goal with VAR. You can't even be sure when it's a screamer from 30m.
I used to go mental when we scored but now I just sit there waiting for var to do something. It’s not enjoyable anymore.
 
Unfortuently VAR has made the game far more controversial and frustrating. Before when there was a miss it was easy to say it was missed by the ref or linesman and they had to go with their instinct for calls related to handballs or the like. Sure it was frustrating when a peno was given against us or a goal got ruled out but it felt like you got as many as you gave and it was a hell of a talking point. With VAR, they spend 5 mins looking at it and still rule against common sense which makes it way worse. How many times has a goal been scored and then the dreaded VAR notification comes up only for it to be disallowed for something so slight or so much further back in play. I think the ones where they get the lines out to check for offside is beyond ridiculous.

With VAR in place for a while now, when we score a goal, my first thought isn’t to hit the ceiling and yell out, my first though is now was there anything wrong with that goal. It really has changed the feel of the game. I actually felt sick after the Newcastle game and I was thinking I would have rather not watched it tbh which says something.

I think one of the things that differentiates football from most other sports is it’s purity and simplicity. All you need is a ball and two (semi) working feet. By introducing technology like VAR, you’re removing the fundamental aspect of why people enjoy the game and frankly, I can’t fucking stand it.
 
Seems like an age now that we were scrabbling about in mid table mediocrity !
We have proved ourselves to be permanent top six contenders and usually out perform that lot from down the road.
But..... Are the cards stacked against us ?
It would seem so,when just about everyone including our opponents managers are saying that the VAR decisions are so so wrong when it comes to Spurs,
Take a look at the VAR decisions that went against us over the seasons and it all becomes very clear.
Dier's shoulder, Sonny's pubic hair adjudicated offside the list goes on.
Despite all this the Spurs march on throughout all this blatant some would say fraudulent behaviour.
For me it's lost it's shine and a re-vamp of the rules cannot come quickly enough.
Maybe I'm just a whining tempestuous spurs fan but the facts do not lie.
 
I'd like to think it were just English refs but it took that one in the CL final 27 seconds to do the predictable against us.

I like to think that we'll have a better standard of refs in the Europa league and if we win it, I might look at checking out and following the Championship until VAR is scrapped.

You can't celebrate a goal anymore as you need to wait for VAR to give it their seal of approval. This open to interpretation handball farce has killed it for me. I love watching Spurs win but the players are no longer deciding the results anymore.

We will never win the league with it in place. I wish I could say the same for Manure.
 

shempz

Supporter
I don't think its a conspiracy against us - and to be fair we've had a few very dodgy VAR calls go our way (Sheff Utd and Norwich offside goals spring to mind).

However...some of those that have gone against us are ludicrous in the extreme.

Kane goal vs Sheff Utd
Moura is fouled and pushed over, and as he is falling the ball hits him on back of the shoulder. Ball breaks to Kane and Kane scores. Goal is given by the onfield ref, but VAR then decides it was handball by Moura. In this instance, it is far from clear what part of Moura the ball actually hit - so for a VAR to be 100% certain it hit his arm is ridiculous. To add insult to injury, the ref should then have given a freekick to Spurs, as no advantage was received - but instead Sheff Utd got a freekick for handball. Fuck right off.

Kane pushed vs Bournemouth
About as blatant a push and a penalty as you are ever likely to see. The onfield ref missed it, and VAR decided it was not a clear and obvious error. WTF?????

Son red card vs Everton
A foul by Sonny with a worse outcome than would normally happen in that the knock on effect was the Everton player got his legs caught and broke his leg/ankle. Just a foul - nothing more nothing less, but then VAR tells the ref to red card Sonny and we are down to 10 men and it costs us a victory.

Penalties vs Southampton and Newcastle.
Not penalties - simple as.

Offside goals
The issue with some of these marginal offside goals is that VAR is trying to apply a 3D view of the offside line to a 2D picture at a broadcast camera angle. It simply does not work and the margin for human error on this is huge. The worst instance of this was the disallowed Firmino goal against Villa early last season, which VAR got spectacularly wrong. Sonny being offside in the build up to the disallowed Aurier goal against Leicester was another example - but not as obvious. In my opinion the only way to fix this is to have mobile overhead and sideline cameras sync'd and tracking play all the time, as this would remove virtually all of the camera angle issue. However that is not practical.
 
I've said it in the VAR thread but what they need to do now is give everyone access to the mic feed from all the officials.

This would mean that the refs know we're all listening and will bring a level of accountability.

Get a red button feed for those watching at home. Broadcasters can clip any relevant sections around marginal/controversial calls to show the discussions the refs had at the time.

If they are saying 'Give the handball against them...it's Spurs' at least we'd know for sure then :)
 

Johnboy40

Where's the Kaboom?
This is what will happen...

PGMOL, the premier league and the FA will discuss it.
They will decide it needs changing, and issue some guidance. The following round of games, Van Dijk will handle a goalbound shot. The ref will use his new discretion and decide its no penalty, and as such, no card.
Probably be against us.
 
Another factor that Jose has touched upon is that our players are too "nice". Both in the sense that we struggle to play "snide" football to see games out. And in the sense that our players don't put enough pressure on the referees in situations like the one on Sunday.

Had that situation happened to Liverpool, United, Chelsea etc their players would have been on the referee pleading their case. And that does actually have some effect on the decision.

On Sunday the only Spurs player that seemed to actively protest the penalty decision was Winks and he got a warning for it.

Strength in numbers and what not.

I'm not saying we should bitch and moan about every decision that goes against us. But we could definitely enforce our presence some more on 50/50 scenarios like on Sunday.



And not just this group of players. For decades we've been too nice, probably since the early 80s team. We weren't 'soft spurs' back then, eg. City Cup Final when even Ardiles was being pushed back from Gerry Gow, a couple of their strikers lay on the ground nursing injuries adjacent to Roberts and Miller. We got in Hackett's ear whilst losing and City were breaking game up with fouls.

Just having a look at some crucial semis we've lost

The Newcastle semi when one of their players pulled of a fantastic one handed save on the line, missed by the ref; ref said later when it was pointed out he had missed it 'the reaction of the Tottenham players was superb'. It shouldn't have been. We should have been in his ear, making the next 50-50 more likely to go our way. I think one of the old players said Venables made this point to them when he was manager.
.
Chelsea in the 'non ball over the line' farce. Ref said later, I allowed myself to be bullied / convinced by the Chelsea players.

Another Chelsea semi, the 4-2, that was 2-2 at a crucial period and Chelsea were stopping Alli from turning by constant niggly fouls, and then standing over the ball to stop the quick free kick. I didn't see our players pointing this out to the ref.

The recent United one, how many fouls was Herrera allowed to do before being booked? None of ours were protesting. Even holding up eight fingers after 8 fouls would show all watching how many, and embarrass the ref if he kept letting him get away with it. There was a 2 footed tackle by one of theirs as well with no reaction from us.

Talking of the Mancs, Pedro Mendes at Old Trafford, was there outrage from our players?... all I remember is Fergie having a rant afterwards about how his team were denied a penalty.

I purposely didn't see Sunday's game as I knew something like that would happen to us (stopped watching Everton Palace day when penalty was given) but as said above, Dier and others should have been in ref's ear about the push at least - he may have asked to see it, when he was watching the still of Dier's arm raised So what if they get a warning or booked.
 
It's amazing that there wasn't a bone-deep understanding among the powers that be of how destructive this aspect of it would be to the product they're selling.

I guess that would depend on what they stand to gain in revenue by propping up Manure artificially. Most pens in a season...first pen to be awarded after an EPL match finished...fuck knows what records they'll break this season with penalties. A golden boot winner consisting entirely of pens?
 
Unfortuently VAR has made the game far more controversial and frustrating. Before when there was a miss it was easy to say it was missed by the ref or linesman and they had to go with their instinct for calls related to handballs or the like. Sure it was frustrating when a peno was given against us or a goal got ruled out but it felt like you got as many as you gave and it was a hell of a talking point. With VAR, they spend 5 mins looking at it and still rule against common sense which makes it way worse. How many times has a goal been scored and then the dreaded VAR notification comes up only for it to be disallowed for something so slight or so much further back in play. I think the ones where they get the lines out to check for offside is beyond ridiculous.

With VAR in place for a while now, when we score a goal, my first thought isn’t to hit the ceiling and yell out, my first though is now was there anything wrong with that goal. It really has changed the feel of the game. I actually felt sick after the Newcastle game and I was thinking I would have rather not watched it tbh which says something.

I think one of the things that differentiates football from most other sports is it’s purity and simplicity. All you need is a ball and two (semi) working feet. By introducing technology like VAR, you’re removing the fundamental aspect of why people enjoy the game and frankly, I can’t fucking stand it.
I've banged on about this before but you're right that it's particularly sickening when the lines come out and they're trying to assess millimetres of difference.

I won't say exactly what but I have a science background and as far as experimental measurements go (you could treat VAR offside decisions like that TBH) it would be bad science. If you wrote a report and presented those offside calls as absolute 'fact', you would look ridiculous and someone would rightfully be asking about every single contribution of measurement error.

Simply put:
- what's the resolution of the image used?
- what's your frame rate?
- given this frame rate, when did the ball leave the last passer's foot?

I can't put it any other way than it's men in a box using noticeably imperfect tools to produce a perfect decision. There should totally be an option for 'inconclusive' that gives the benefit of the doubt to the attacker. It's what the offside rule used to aim to do by eye and is within the spirit of the game. We all know the kind of egregious offsides that have been missed before VAR and those would be picked up conclusively without a doubt.

And that's not even going into how bullshit and lucky (or unlucky) players can be with offside depending upon the exact moment in their stride the image is taken (despite their centre of gravity being identically aligned to the opponent).

There seems to be something uniquely fucked about the FA that any decisions they make recently are backfiring spectacularly. The irony of the new handball rule is that I'm sure someone suggested it would help referees by giving them a surefire way of coming to a judgement - and yet there surely can't have been a consultation period on it because any manager, player, or poster on this forum could have told them exactly what kind of Pandora's Box would be opened.
 

Mrs Perryman

Supporter
I'm a Cockney Malteser 👑
It's only a matter of time before players start deliberately aiming the ball at defenders' arms. Whoever said pandora's box is spot on.
What do you mean, it's only a matter of time, seems to me everybody's already doing it.......except us!



OK, maybe I am being a little bit sarky, but I'm still annoyed about Sunday. Even if the ref admits he was wrong, not going to give us the points back!
 

Rocket

Supporter

Would be interesting to know what had happened before that clip. For instance if he had allowed play on after an obvious foul I could understand his disappointment at the useless prick's ability to beat the keeper one on one. Either that, or maybe he was just hoping for a goal to give him a blow for a minute.
 
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