Is Poch a victim of his own success?

  • The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

To put it simply, anyone who thinks that Pochettino is doing anything but a great job with us is dim. Poch single handedly changed the mentality, culture and style of this club with little help or resources. If anyone is going to 'get us to the next level' it is Mauricio Pochettino. Honestly my biggest worry is if he leaves is all of this going to fall apart and we end up going backwards. If it wasn't for Poch it wouldn't be the 'Big Six', it'd be the big 5 and we would be the best of the rest.
 

Dr Rocktopus

🎃🦇🎃🦇🎃
As far as the league is concerned he’s had to contend with ‘home’ games at Wembley, several injuries to key players, and the additional issues that come with managing to lead us into the last 4 of the CL. Despite all of that we’re still a single victory away from guaranteed CL football, and could even qualify without earning another point.

I think he can take us further.
 

Airfixx

"I brekka yorz back ind make-a yew humbil"
Is he a victim of his own success?

Absolutely...

He could have had us at 5th for a few years, scored 4th this year took us into the new stadium with CL in our first full season. He'd have hit his brief and no-one what have any tangible cause for complaint.

However, 5th, 3rd 2nd 3rd & potentially 3rd place finishes later:

Now... 3rd and CL sf is "unacceptable" and some will deem our season a disaster unless we actualy win the CL outright.

Rightly or wrongly; if nothing else it's all a bit surreal... We are they best I've known us bar some one-off domestic cup glory yet the axes are out in some quarters and even more want the chairman's blood mere weeks after the new 'wow' stadium opened.

I sincerely wish that we can get over the line and wipe the slate clean for all involved (fans as much as the staff); end of phase 1: new gaff, new dawn and all that, but we seem hell-bent on bringing all the interim tension, stress and discontent with us. Shame.
 
Last edited:
We've picked up 10 points out of 33 in our last 11 league games. 11 games is almost one third of a league season. That would equate to 34 points over a full season, relegation form. Its a bloody good thing we had 60 points on the board after 26 games. Only the relegated trio of Huddersfield, Fulham and Cardiff have picked up fewer points than us in the last 11 games. Injury list, lack of player investment and playing at Wembley all factors over the season, but that is an utterly shocking record for a club of our stature, to be playing like a relegation candidate for a near 3 month period.

The indiscipline today in a game we should have been out of sight in before pressing the self destruct button, the casualness at Southampton in a game which should have been killed off and the complacency going to an in form Burnley, thinking we only had to turn up to win and a complete no show against the Spammers are just not acceptable. Calamitous late own goals at Chavs and at Liverpool almost seem acceptable by comparison.
 
He's not a 'victim' nor has he ever portrayed himself as one ... remember this thread is a response to the tiny fraction of the support that bitch and moan because we've "only reached the last four of the CL and are only competing for top four once again" ... the huge majority of die-hard fans are ecstatic to be living in the era of the greatest consistent performance in our history ... and frankly the minority in this case can all simply fuck off back to their basements they have no clue ....

Poch talked about a 'five year challenge' in 2016, the challenge was to become a club that competed for European qualification on a regular basis .... well just three years later that's already been achieved. Now Poch could just sit back and take it easy for two years, he's on 8m a year he's already achieved his targets, but he won't, it's just not in his physce.

So now he is looking for the club to tear up that five year plan and produce a new one, one that sets the sites on Titles and Trophies, we will see come the summer if the club and Poch are aligned, if he gets no backing (and he will) then he can claim to be a 'victim'

But a new ground, new training facilities, the 5th highest valued squad in the league .... that's hardly lack of support, what Poch has done is over achieve, most fans recognise that and appreciate it, who gives a fuck what the media and a few moronic trolls on here think? Poch is already a Spurs legend, sure the squad needs a shake up from top to bottom, nobody will deny that, just let's pray it's Poch that gets to do it not some inferior replacement.
 

Totti

⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐
There's been a nagging thought in my mind all season (and a bit before that, tbh). Is the 'Pochettino way' a busted flush? The weaker teams we play against have got wise to Poch's style of play and set themselves up accordingly, frustrating us, which they seem to be doing more and more successfully.
He needs to introduce not only new blood, but also new tactics. Is he able to do that? I'd say he is (irrational belief to the fore again).

The Pochettino way was always play with your full backs providing width and fearless aggression and pressing cleverly from the front.

Just go and look at the 16/17 season - why didn't teams just sit back against us and try and stifle us, especially at White Hart Lane? Because they couldn't. Teams tried to and we just blitzed them with pace, power and starting games fast.

We don't have that power and pace on the flanks anymore, which slows down our entire play. Because Trippier (or Aurier) instead of taking on their man or giving the opposing full back something to think about, tend to get the ball and either aimlessly cross it, which usually ends with us losing possession, or pass it centrally which then again slows down our attacking play and allows the opponents to regroup or get back into a defensive shape.

In 2016/17 we had:
- Two aggressively quick and powerful full backs (Walker and Rose)
- Aridiculously solid central defensive pairing with no expensive back ups (Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Dier, Wimmer)
- One of the best performing defensive midfielders in the league (Wanyama)
- Smeone who helped control our midfield through strength and the ability to not lose the ball (Dembele)
- A goalscoring second striker (Dele)
- A creative midfielder (Eriksen)
- Two great goalscorers (Kane and Son)

Fast forward this season and we have:
- Lopsided full backs (Trippier and Rose)
- A solid central defensive pairing disrupted by one of our most expensive signings (Alderwiereld, Vertonghen, Sanchez)
- No true defensive midfielder to shield them due to injury (Wanyama, Dier)
- A player who aims to help controlling our midfield through possession and recyling as opposed to strength and ability to not lose the ball (Winks)
- Dele deeper and no longer a second striker due to Son and Kane and Lucas being our main attacking threats.


Add in to the fact we tended to play 4231 and 3421 in 16/17 and this season we've usually played 352 or 41212 diamond.

We don't have the personnel to really play 4231 as we don't have a Dembele in there to hold it together and I feel Sissoko hasn't got the discipline to play in a midfield 2 and then we come back to the fact we haven't really got a fit defensive midfielder (or a good one anymore) to play alongside. Winks and prime Wanyama would have been perfect, but we haven't got prime Wanyama and Winks has been injured.

And whilst we DO have the personnel for a 3421, I feel like Sanchez isn't best suited to a back three which again puts us in a predicament where we've signed a £40,000,000 centre half who at the time wasn't anywhere near as good as our current centre halves and 2 years on, still isn't anywhere near as good.

The summer is a huge one - because if Poch is going to stick with some of the formations he's played this season he must realise we simply haven't got the players to play them successfully so needs to build a new team to suit them.
 
don't be fickle. He should be given a summer and season to reshape the squad. it's not that he's npt faultless, but you don't sack the best manager since Burkinshaw in this circumstances
 
Last edited:

WookieD

wharrgarbl 💫
Nothing tangible for the fans100's millions of pounds of increased revenue and profit for the board.
So that fucking great big stadium I’ve been going to since April isn’t tangible? Cramming St.Totteringham’s day down Gooner throats isn’t tangible? Having CL nights midweek isn’t tangible? Actually feeling pride to support my club after years of feeling like it was a laughing stock isn’t tangible?

Blimey, the entitlement.
 

Massive Conte

Supporter
eromtoutegotdeenuoytuosihtdekrowuoyfi
Pochettino stated that the objective set by Levy was for us to be playing Champions League football in the new stadium.

So yeah. Poch over-performed and set the bar high by qualifying and having decent runs earlier than expected.

The problem now is that Woolwich, United, Liverpool, City and Chelsea, our rivals for the Top 4 have all strengthened their squads significantly over the past few years, where as we haven’t. If anything, we’ve gone the other way - particularly with Dembele leaving.

There’s a reason why it’s a big deal that Chelsea are receiving a two window ban on signing players. Because it’s a strong punishment. Levy, despite all the great things he has done for Tottenham decided to self-impose a two window ban on us. No fucking wonder we’re struggling!

I get as wound up as anyone when I hear us described as Spursy/soft/bottlers. But there’s no smoke without fire! This has been the case for years. Why? Our recruitment strategy.

We lack squad depth first and foremost. Our squad is jammed full of players that should be nowhere near a team aspiring to win the league. We lack big game players. We lack the type of leader that will go fucking ballistic in the dressing room at players that cost us the game for getting sent off because they got wound up. Or confront a ‘big’ player who isn’t pulling their weight.

Pochettino set the bar high by delivering what Levy wanted ahead of schedule. But Levy needs to recognise the fact that our competition now have far stronger teams than we do. It is a miracle that we’re still in the running for the Top 4. We’ve lost more games this season than Wolves, a team that was playing in the Championship last season. If that isn’t setting alarm bells off in Levy’s head then nothing will.

It isn’t Poch’s fault. It is Levy’s for not backing him in the window. It is only a matter of time before Pochettino gets sick of it and joins a club that will back him. One sacking at Real Madrid, Barcelona, PSG, United, Bayern Munich, Juventus etc... and they’ll be kicking the door down to sign him. Levy needs to unclench his asshole. Give Poch £100m outright plus free reign to get rid of whoever he wants and allow him reinvest that money. Otherwise we will not win anything and Poch will move on to bigger things.
 

Rodger

Beyond Evelebty!
I love Pochettino and would absolutely hate to see him go. He's totally devoted to the club and, as has already been said, he's given us our most successful spell for some time. But, as the title suggests, 3rd/4th/5th are no longer good enough. Would a change of manager bring silverware with him? I doubt it. In fact, he'd probably be a disappointment. Better the devil you know...
Poch has the ability to take us further, to trophies, but at this particular point in time he urgently needs the money to build a bigger, refreshed squad. I love the way Spurs try to bring academy players through, but we need to supplement them with expensive, world-class youngsters, or we'll be back here again next year, with the same old frustrations.
The manager's not the problem.
 

Totti

⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐
Not an urban myth, but it hasn't clicked very often this season, for all sorts of reasons - yet currently and amazingly we're still 3rd!

Probably a mixture of a thousand injuries and a change in formation.

We've played some excellent football at times this season but it's few and far between. Everton for example when we had Kane, Son, Eriksen, Dele and Winks on the pitch at the same time.

Having those five on the pitch at the same time has been a rare occurrence due to injuries to some of them at times this season.
 
One thing to consider, for all you trigger happy ‘realists’. If Poch goes, Kane will follow him soon after. As will Son. They play for him more than anything else.

So if you’re up for starting from scratch, go for it.
 
Depends how we define success to be honest....

Let’s put somethings in perspective here,
As of today we are the only top 6 club to to qualify for the CL for 4 straight seasons with the exception of Man City, who have made it 8. Liverpool, Woolwich, Man Utd and Chelsea have not been consistent inhabitants of top 4 in recent years, now consider the money these teams have spent, seriously take a minute and do the math as it’s quite a lot of fucking money.....Woolwich fans want their board to sell as they don’t back their manager, really? Last summer they spent 70m, we spent 0. They boast a strike force (Abamayang & Lacazette) that cost over 110m, ours cost 11m (Kane & Llorente) in comparison.....They are 12 years in a new stadium with the highest prices in football, we are less than 12 weeks......
Yes this season has been to hell and back at times, but we still, under Pochettino, continue to keep fighting well above our financial weight...Yes we do need to start investing now, and we need to improve the quality within the squad, but just imagine Pochettino getting the kind of coin he needs....the world is our oyster!!
 
I love Pochettino and would absolutely hate to see him go. He's totally devoted to the club and, as has already been said, he's given us our most successful spell for some time. But, as the title suggests, 3rd/4th/5th are no longer good enough. Would a change of manager bring silverware with him? I doubt it. In fact, he'd probably be a disappointment. Better the devil you know...
Poch has the ability to take us further, to trophies, but at this particular point in time he urgently needs the money to build a bigger, refreshed squad. I love the way Spurs try to bring academy players through, but we need to supplement them with expensive, world-class youngsters, or we'll be back here again next year, with the same old frustrations.
The manager's not the problem.

Any new manager is going to start at the bottom, overhaul the squad etc etc and have a period of destabilisation and rebuilding. That’s no guarantee of success. So keep Poch (assuming he wants to stay) and let him do that.
 
Top Bottom