Is the club/board ok?

[SouthernCross10]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/apr/29/premier-league-finances-club-by-club

When your revenue and wage bill is 6th highest in the league, how much do people expect Levy to do?
He's not going to put millions into the club like Abramovich and Sheikh Mansour,

Simple fact, financially we can't compete with Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Woolwich and Liverpool at the current moment.

 

[1882]

The closest club to achieving anything similar like that would be Southampton,
To come from league 1 to the top half of the Premier League is a great achievement,
However they will never be able to challenge for the league title and even champions league is just a small hope

It's ironic that both Southampton and Norwich managed to go from League 1 to the Premier League in consecutive seasons, and yet will never genuinely compete for the title... yet Man City made the same journey... albeit with a Couple of billion extra to help them along the way!

 

[Tomo]

I understand that. My frustration with Enic is they're spending less than Palace, Stoke, Sunderland etc.

Fundermentally we are viewed by the likes of Joe Lewis as purely a business. Building a stadium, training facilities etc ups the worth of the club so they are generous with that but transfers are a gamble and cost lots of money.

As businessmen they probably look at the quater and the year profit without taking the long view that if we bring in top players, get top 4 for a season or two and then attract better players we will make even more money by getting CL football, more sponsorship etc. spend money to make money, perhaps they view it as too much of a gamble.

Your right though it would be nice to be able to get one or two top targets who can get us to the next level as it where, basically get the managers top targets even if it costs a bit.

 

[Graham Harding]

You don't pay 450 million in one go. You take out a bond or something of the like, and use the additional 15,000 people per game and the large money generated to pay it off over 15-20 years like a mortgage.

That is not including the money we have saved by being the tightest club in the prem over the past 10 years, the massive TV money, the NFL deal, the bigger sponsorship, the naming rights, the fact we have a billionaire owner.

When Arse built their stadium the Prem was far less lucrative financially and they still managed it.

We are tight because we are a bussiness and at the end of it Joe Lewis wants a big score.

you are right its all about money If ENIC/Levy/Tavistock/Joe Lewis’ ultimate aim is to sell the club for a healthy profit surely the best way to do this is to invest in the playing squad and have a world class stadium, therefore making the club a far more attractive proposition to prospective buyers.

 

[Tomo]

How do you know we haven't gone that extra yard and offered the money needed to secure the player? Maybe we have but the selling club are waiting until they have a replacement lined up, maybe the selling club don't want to sell before they buy as it will weaken their negotiating position. The whole situation is like house buying, quite often there is a chain and everyone is waiting to do their business at the right moment while hoping no part of the chain falls down. So we have to wait until everyone is happy before things move forward but this depends on how many are in the chain, but ultimately the point is, this is all beyond Levy's control.

To my mind the best way to ensure our business is concluded before the season starts is for the transfer window to close before the season is underway (potentially keeping a 2 week period open for loans).

I do agree with the transfer window closing earlier, seems dumb to end a few weeks into the season.

Who knows what goes on in the background. All I can see though is Liverpool for example hitting their targets and we after the Bale money seemed to hit our targets quick when we had a lot of cash. But this window paper stories of us offering just £10 million for berahino and plenty of others. From the outside it looks as if we are really tight I mean insanely tight to the point of potentially not getting who we want.

none of us live in the world of transfers, we are not agents so our impression comes from what players, agents, papers say and how often we seem to hit our apparent targets or the timescale in which we get them.

 

[DeeGee]

Probably. Bentaleb and Chadli both played a lot in Germany, and maybe it showed a bit today.

Well Bentaleb and Chadli had a half v Real and then Chadli had just over another half v Milan whereas Bentaleb had about 70 mins. So They only had 15mins and about 8 mins respectively more than anyone else.

I think there is something up with Bentaleb. He looked frustrated at the Audi cup. Did anyone notice those unprovoked barges which were somewhat over physical an unnecessary for a friendly? His attitude hasn't looked correct since we went to Malaysia. I pointed something out about how he got pissed with Townsend and basically stopped running, turned around and walked back. Very uncharacteristic for him.
Maybe he has some personal problems because his head did not with it in Munich to me. He's only a kid.
In fact all his performances pre season have not really been that good
I don't think that was enough to make them jaded. Dier also played over 90 mins & Vertonghen, Walker & Eriksen played 90 too.

 

[DeeGee]

Fundermentally we are viewed by the likes of Joe Lewis as purely a business. Building a stadium, training facilities etc ups the worth of the club so they are generous with that but transfers are a gamble and cost lots of money.

As businessmen they probably look at the quater and the year profit without taking the long view that if we bring in top players, get top 4 for a season or two and then attract better players we will make even more money by getting CL football, more sponsorship etc. spend money to make money, perhaps they view it as too much of a gamble.

Your right though it would be nice to be able to get one or two top targets who can get us to the next level as it where, basically get the managers top targets even if it costs a bit.

er..so when we got top 4 who did we attract?
It's not all about top 4 as much as it's about the wages.
Can't attract the top players now unless you pay the wages. I mean when we beat City to CL qualification we signed nobody of any note & they signed Kolarov, Toure, Silva, Blotelli, Milner and Dzeko.
Over the last 10 year Woolwich have been in the CL and have spent what on their most expensive player before Ozil and Sanchez?
It simply does not work like that, unless you have big backers. Chavs only have 5k more capacity than us.
They pay a £179m wage bill and bring in £105m in broadcasting & £71m in match day - £176m - £3m less than their wage bill!
It's made up from commercial of £84m from who Gazprom ( who have bought a massive stake in Sibneft) who's Gazprom's founder? Roman.
Yokohama ( who are owned by furukawa who have investments in Russia in metals and shit)
Gazprom are now paying all their utility bills!

Same goes for Man City £128m in matchday/Gates and TV money combined yet a £233m wage bill? They also pump in money through subsidiaries for commercial activities which total £143m. ( Eithad, Etisalat, Abu Dhabi, Aabar etc,.) That enables them to buy and attract top players.
That's how they do it.
Not because the are in CL.

As for Man U, they are Man U. The exception.

 

[Bale'sHairLine]

I think that the board are actually doing okay. They have a vision that they want to put into action but it's just taken longer than they would have hoped.

At present we're bringing in £35m a season in gate receipts. Once the stadium is built we'll have added around 25,000 more seats which will mean that, in theory we'll have an extra £20m-£25m coming in per season. So that's £55m-£60m straight off the bat from match day gate receipts.

With regard to the further aspects of the development it's likely that the club will receive somewhere in the region of £100m for the entire development alone. That's a fair bit of extra cash to splash. Which means that even if we completely flop during a season we'll still have the financial security to invest in talented players. We'll be one of the only clubs in the UK that are self sustainable as we'll have substantial income coming from non-football ventures.

In five years we'll be one of the most financially secure clubs in Europe.
- We'll be able to spend £50m+ every transfer window.
- We'll be able to pay players more.
- We'll be able to attract better players.
- We won't be in silly amounts of debt like City, Chelsea, United, Woolwich, Liverpool.

So in summary. It's not all shit. We've just got to wait a bit longer.

 

[Joe Clash]

Putting money in Enic pockets? They have put in way more into the club than they have taken out in dividends in the last decade and a half.
The only time they are ever gonna make money from the club is selling it on one day.

And how much are they going to make from their £28m investment? £800m - £900m? I can't be arsed arguing with dimwits such as yourself. Go and pester someone else with your bullshit.

 

[Furball man]

Pochettino isn't the Manager though. He's the head coach. It isn't his primary job to identify targets.
What I meant by Levy offering him a player was Levy coming back to Pochettino after finding out who has actually getable from Mitchell/Poch's list.
The last player Pochettino wanted and got was signing Osvaldo for Southampton from his old club Espanyol. A 15m disaster for a club that had been so good with transfers.

Coach / Manager primary job is to coach / manage the team isn't it?
I'll take your word for that as I've no idea who Poch chose at Southampton . I do hope you're wrong though as it would mean that we have hired yet another manager who can't spot a talent.

If I were a chairman & wanted to show faith in a manager / coach I'd do all I could to get his 1st choices otherwise u end up pissing off yet another manager / coach. Poch made it clear back in April he wanted dealings done early to prepare for next season. This didn't happen. I hope im wrong but it seems to be a very familiar path we are tredding down which seems to start with frustration at not being 100% ready for a season squad-wise & we know were it ends up.... Fingers pointed , sacking & then start again.

 

[Furball man]

Don't ENIC invest in about 8 other clubs across Europe?
Surely they would prioritise their investment into those clubs that perform on the pitch?
We need to insure that mid table mediocrity doesn't become part of game plan.
Also giving the manger a decent time to work towards achieving his goals would be good.

They stopped "investing" in the others a while ago .... Almost destroyed a few of them , Slavia Prague & AEK Athensspring to mind

If anyone wishes to do a little research on enic, they'll see that most things they have " invested" in has gone tits up. Warner Bro Studio Stores , Church Street station. Ukbetting was sold at a profit to Bet365 I think. Had it for less than a year & sold it. The Autonomy thing never sat right with me either

 

[Joe Clash]

To compete with the big boys we need to find a Russian or Saudi billionaire quick smart.
We mostly wasted the Bale financial windfall and need to look seriously at our scouting program.
Identifying genuine football talent should be our priority not wasting it on some Carlos kick a ball.

No we don't. 6 points is all we needed last season - I can't believe you're suggesting that I'm saying that we need to spend £900 million - I've never said that. There's no middle ground with some of you lot. It's either Charlie Austin or selling the stinking club into penury. Ah sorry, I get you now.

 

[Joe Clash]

So you have a problem with them leaving the club in the best possible state so they can get the best possible price when they sell the club on?
Leave it near bankrupt like Scholar? Mismanage it into midtable like Sugar? Take actual money out of the club like the Glaziers have at United and Hicks and Gillett did at Liverpool?
Or are you one of those that think we deserve a Sugar Daddy because other teams have one and "it's not fair".

I'd rather play in the Conference South than bandy words with idiots like you. You support the regime and not the team. Did you have posters of chairmen on your bedroom walls when you were a kid? Or are you still a kid doing GCSE maths? Either way I think that you are a fucking cunt for your "sugar daddy" comment.

Supported us long have you 'ModricTHFC' ?. Get to fuck you whiny little accountant.

 

[The Yinzer]

Did you have posters of chairmen on your bedroom walls when you were a kid?

It would make wanking oneself to sleep over a chairman much easier I suppose.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

It is getting increasing harder to post on Spurs forums these days. The melting, dear God.

What are we seeing now that we haven't seen in previous seasons?

We have a major stadium project folks. Sorry, but its seasons until it's in place, and probably several after, are holding seasons. The real stuff won't happen until we stand a true chance of competing. "Levy should do this, or that, blah, blah, blah".

Reality check folks. Personally, I'd rather suffer the same old for a few seasons and then stand a chance of real success then be having the same argument on, for instance, a West Ham forum, where there is no future at all.

 

[Joe Clash]

It would make wanking oneself to sleep over a chairman much easier I suppose.

These cunts do though, I swear they fucking do. Standing on the Shelf or the Park Lane as a kid, I never envisioned that I would be involved in this kind of crap - I mean I love technology, but this is too high a price to pay. All these revolting cunts entering your living room. I used to really love Tottenham, everyone you met was full on, but now? How can I possibly love these cretinous children - it's poisoning the gene pool.

 

[Bale'sHairLine]

Thanks for the big reply. Like a python I will digest it overnight. Is that ok? Saw a bit about winning trophies and had a chuckle - you were joking at that point? The rest of your post seemed to contradict your previous 3 posts which I thought was really cool. I've got nothing against you fella, but I honestly don't know what you're on about. This is great.

To be honest I don't really know what I'm on about either.

In summary. It would be nice to think that ENIC will use a large chunk of the money they earn after the development is finished on new players and higher wages but I don't know whether or not that's going to happen. I don't know whether or not the wider development (outside the stadium) is going to belong to Tottenham Hotspur or ENIC (so when they sell Spurs, will that go with them or will it and the income in brings in stay with the club and the new owners). Then finally, what sort of owner would likely purchase he club when ENIC go. A 'sugar daddy'? If so would that turn Spurs into another City/Chelsea/United.

You seem to like the odd heated discussion and although I can see the amount of bollocks some people are chatting on here, I'm not a fan of doing that wank over the internet as it achieves fuck all. Although I am a fan of a chat with other Spurs fans to vent and chat, which is what I thought this forum would be about. So yeah, would be good to hear your views on it as you seem to have an opinion.

 

[LeeMcl]

I don't know for sure, but to my untrained eye, it would seem what little profit there has been is put back into the club, no more, no less, but the profits are low

However, by owning the club ENIC have been able to buy substantial London real estate at a reduced rate over many years. The reason that has been possible is the Stadium project. As was witnessed recently with that local school they owned, they are able to now start releasing their assets back on to the market @ a profit.

As it stands I suspect their property holdings are worth more than the football side of the business, but without the football side they can't buy / sell their property in the same way ( I'd suspect a tax break or two is attached to the development scheme )

So in essence, I feel the club has served ENIC well, what they have done in return for the club is not an exact match. Certainly not on the pitch, so I don't feel they really have made the difference they could / should have. The football club looks cheaply run, but the property side is huge !

 

[Anthony Beale]

The amount of paranoia going on here is insane.

Guys, we're having our longest, sustained run ever. We've finished outside the top 6 once in i don't even remember how many years its been now. We've got an amazing new stadium on the way, that will put us even closer to the big time. We've had some fantastic players at the club in recent years, Bale, Modric, Van der Vaart. Players you dream about as a kid, and try to copy on the playground. We've had european football for years, even got into the champions league. Just fucking enjoy it.

So why the fuck are you pissing and moaning on the internet, about some absolutely irrelevant shit? Discussing Enic buying up property for profits? All this shit is going to happen anyway, regardless of how many paragraphs you type on the internet so just fucking enjoy the football. Theres no great conspiracy with ENIC. People go on about them, like they think the board don't want us to win every game! Everything they do is going to be in, what they think at least is, the best interest in the club. You'd be mad to think otherwise. You don't invest in something and then fuck it over. You wouldn't buy a house and then paint every room bright pink and brick up all the windows would you.

 

[Bale'sHairLine]

The amount of paranoia going on here is insane.

Guys, we're having our longest, sustained run ever. We've finished outside the top 6 once in i don't even remember how many years its been now. We've got an amazing new stadium on the way, that will put us even closer to the big time. We've had some fantastic players at the club in recent years, Bale, Modric, Van der Vaart. Players you dream about as a kid, and try to copy on the playground. We've had european football for years, even got into the champions league. Just fucking enjoy it.

So why the fuck are you pissing and moaning on the internet, about some absolutely irrelevant shit? Discussing Enic buying up property for profits? All this shit is going to happen anyway, regardless of how many paragraphs you type on the internet so just fucking enjoy the football. Theres no great conspiracy with ENIC. People go on about them, like they think the board don't want us to win every game! Everything they do is going to be in, what they think at least is, the best interest in the club. You'd be mad to think otherwise. You don't invest in something and then fuck it over. You wouldn't buy a house and then paint every room bright pink and brick up all the windows would you.

Football is no longer just about what happens on the pitch. It stopped being that way a long time ago. Not everyone has to have an opinion of what goes on with ENIC but some people do. Granted they could stop being wankers and arguing like children about it but there's nothing to stop them from talking about what they want to talk about.

So ultimately, if you want to talk about football, talk about football. If you want to talk about the management of the club, then talk about the management of the club. If you want to pick dasies and play with your knob, guess what? You can do that too.