Jan Vertonghen

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I want him to stay at least for another year but clearly he has massively declined physically over the past year, watching him try to keep up with Bayern today was really sad to watch. Hes not being helped by a system that leaves him horribly exposed but he used to be able to handle 1v1s. Now he looks like an old man.
It does seem like the word is out--game after game, you see opponents attacking our left side, trying to get behind Rose/Davies and believing Jan can be beat. I still believe in Jan--his football intelligence has always been so high--but we know that this sport is not kind to athletes on the wrong side of 30, even at the back, where sometimes the loss of a step can be hidden a little longer.
 
I want him to stay at least for another year but clearly he has massively declined physically over the past year, watching him try to keep up with Bayern today was really sad to watch. Hes not being helped by a system that leaves him horribly exposed but he used to be able to handle 1v1s. Now he looks like an old man.
He has another year or two in him, even if that's just to bolster the numbers or a dozen starts in the league as o forward next season.

He is still better than Sanchez, he still gets a pass from me compared to some of the other wasters rucking up on a Saturday at present.
 
Is Sanchez actually worse than Vertonghen right now? I'm honestly not sure at this point. Considering Sanchez is much better physically and has a lot of room to grow/learn since CBs peak later, I would probably rather see him more than we have had.
 
Is Sanchez actually worse than Vertonghen right now? I'm honestly not sure at this point. Considering Sanchez is much better physically and has a lot of room to grow/learn since CBs peak later, I would probably rather see him more than we have had.
Sanchez is too headstrong, too bullish for elite football. Clever players will drag him out of position, leave space in behind and slaughter him and us with him as our lynchpin.

The bloke needs to learn the value of standing a few yards off just as much as he's learned the value of pressure and closing down. He causes too many issues for himself because he can't help but attack the ball, even when the risk completely outweighs the reward. It doesn't surprise me to see him not making the starting XI the last couple of games.
 
Sanchez is too headstrong, too bullish for elite football. Clever players will drag him out of position, leave space in behind and slaughter him and us with him as our lynchpin.

The bloke needs to learn the value of standing a few yards off just as much as he's learned the value of pressure and closing down. He causes too many issues for himself because he can't help but attack the ball, even when the risk completely outweighs the reward. It doesn't surprise me to see him not making the starting XI the last couple of games.
This is the worrying thing. We know Alderweireld and Vertonghen are leaving, we know Rose and Aurier want out, the bug problem is that Sanchez, Foyth, Sessegnon and KWP are not ready to compete consistently over a full season because they are not good enough or experienced enough yet. That leaves our defence in a sad state of affairs

Plus Lloris is beginning to look like a liability

We have no defensive midfielders

The squad is in a shocking state
 

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This is the worrying thing. We know Alderweireld and Vertonghen are leaving, we know Rose and Aurier want out, the bug problem is that Sanchez, Foyth, Sessegnon and KWP are not ready to compete consistently over a full season because they are not good enough or experienced enough yet. That leaves our defence in a sad state of affairs

Plus Lloris is beginning to look like a liability

We have no defensive midfielders

The squad is in a shocking state
Hugo has looked a liability for years. The occasional top draw save digs him out, but he would not get into any of the other top 6 teams. He gets beaten at his near post, make howlers too frequently and his distribution is awful.

In his pomp his grace was the sweeper keeper role, rushing off his line. He seldom does that now.
 
Speaking to talk sport after tonight he said :

"I feel extremely hurt, I feel ashamed, all negative thoughts are going through my head, it’s embarrassing to stand here in front of you guys,” the Belgian said.

“It’s tough. I’m not talking about other players, I’m talking about myself, about my feeling to watch everyone around the club. It’s a very bad result and I don’t want to speak too much.”

Nevertheless, Vertonghen issued a message of togetherness to Spurs fans and promised the team will overcome their shocking defeat.

“Keep supporting us,” he added. “I believe we have the people in the team to overcome this situation.

“This is a bad incident but this group is together. We have to stay together. We will turn this around. I’m not walking away from this, that’s why I’m speaking to you guys, we have to take responsibility and we will.

“The next game is in the Premier League on Saturday and that can be a good chances to get rid of this feeling.”

Not linking the talk sport site as I don't want to give them clicks.
I'm a Jan fan but the players keep coming up with this BS. Never have I seen a response.
 
Sanchez is too headstrong, too bullish for elite football. Clever players will drag him out of position, leave space in behind and slaughter him and us with him as our lynchpin.

The bloke needs to learn the value of standing a few yards off just as much as he's learned the value of pressure and closing down. He causes too many issues for himself because he can't help but attack the ball, even when the risk completely outweighs the reward. It doesn't surprise me to see him not making the starting XI the last couple of games.
I agree that Sanchez is not good enough yet, but I do think he's got a chance to be. Some defenders don't click until later in their careers and he's just 23. He may never be one of the world's best CBs but Jan is also not that anymore either. I would argue that Sanchez's recovery pace would've actually been quite helpful last night as Bayern just played balls over the top of our defense and Jan looked unable to cope. I'm not sure there's much difference between them at the moment, we still look just as shoddy at the back with Jan as we did with Davinson imo.
 
Sanchez is too headstrong, too bullish for elite football. Clever players will drag him out of position, leave space in behind and slaughter him and us with him as our lynchpin.

The bloke needs to learn the value of standing a few yards off just as much as he's learned the value of pressure and closing down. He causes too many issues for himself because he can't help but attack the ball, even when the risk completely outweighs the reward. It doesn't surprise me to see him not making the starting XI the last couple of games.
he's not going to learn playing 1 in every 3 or 4 games, sometimes as a fullback. He was quality in his first season playing alongside Jan. He is ready and can be. I think Foyth is ready too. These guys need to learn but can do it best alongside someone experienced and through regulary playing.
Jan and Toby looked good v Southampton and I think if they'd been protected by a DM last night it wouldn't have been as bad. Despite them both wanting away I don't think they've dropped off very much.
 
I agree that Sanchez is not good enough yet, but I do think he's got a chance to be. Some defenders don't click until later in their careers and he's just 23. He may never be one of the world's best CBs but Jan is also not that anymore either. I would argue that Sanchez's recovery pace would've actually been quite helpful last night as Bayern just played balls over the top of our defense and Jan looked unable to cope. I'm not sure there's much difference between them at the moment, we still look just as shoddy at the back with Jan as we did with Davinson imo.
Was it the 4th goal that Toby was 40 yards out of the defensive line?

Toby this year certainly is the master of getting himself into the most stupid and ineffective positions.
 
Was it the 4th goal that Toby was 40 yards out of the defensive line?

Toby this year certainly is the master of getting himself into the most stupid and ineffective positions.
Toby had a shocker as well, no doubt. Can't help but feel like all our CBs are going to struggle considering what team we're putting out and how we're lining up. Teams have figured out how to beat the diamond and Pochettino has continued to stick to his guns. I find it hard to believe all our CBs have gone to shit, it's probably more to do with what's happening in front of them. Just very little cover/protection and the full backs are getting constantly beaten behind.

Maybe if we had the Jan and Toby from 16/17 they could've made some brilliant tackles and kept the score down. They aren't those players anymore though.

Reminds me how Eriksen and Alli were scapegoated for bad seasons last year when the game was almost constantly bypassing them as we didn't play through our midfield. Sure, they didn't play well but the problem was behind them. CBs are struggling because there's no defensive midfielder and against Bayern that's frankly suicidal.
 
Toby had a shocker as well, no doubt. Can't help but feel like all our CBs are going to struggle considering what team we're putting out and how we're lining up. Teams have figured out how to beat the diamond and Pochettino has continued to stick to his guns. I find it hard to believe all our CBs have gone to shit, it's probably more to do with what's happening in front of them. Just very little cover/protection and the full backs are getting constantly beaten behind.

Maybe if we had the Jan and Toby from 16/17 they could've made some brilliant tackles and kept the score down. They aren't those players anymore though.

Reminds me how Eriksen and Alli were scapegoated for bad seasons last year when the game was almost constantly bypassing them as we didn't play through our midfield. Sure, they didn't play well but the problem was behind them. CBs are struggling because there's no defensive midfielder and against Bayern that's frankly suicidal.
Agreed. Toby got a lot of heat yesterday when he didn't defend against Gnabry who got to run at high speed towards Toby, who was running backwards, as if he could have perfectly defended that in any reasonable way.

What actually happened was that Aurier went to ground and failed to dispossess Gnabry - exposing Toby to an extremely unfavorable 1v1 position where he will fail to defenda LOT of the time regardless of how good he is. Either the full back has to successfully make his tackle or a defending midfielder has to come across to help cover or any centre back will struggle in the same situation.
 
Agreed. Toby got a lot of heat yesterday when he didn't defend against Gnabry who got to run at high speed towards Toby, who was running backwards, as if he could have perfectly defended that in any reasonable way.

What actually happened was that Aurier went to ground and failed to dispossess Gnabry - exposing Toby to an extremely unfavorable 1v1 position where he will fail to defenda LOT of the time regardless of how good he is. Either the full back has to successfully make his tackle or a defending midfielder has to come across to help cover or any centre back will struggle in the same situation.
Thing is, Toby turned his body to try and force Gnabry down the outside. Trouble with that is if the attacker cuts to the inside, Toby has to turn his body right round. The fact that Gnabry didn't break stride running 40 yards on Toby is damning on Toby as well as Aurier who let him go in the first place.

Next goal, we had a back three 25 yards in our own half, while Toby was 15 yards inside their half.

I mean What the Fuck is going on there?
 

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