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Transfers January 2020 transfer thread

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bus-conductor said:
Who's Chewy?
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Airfixx Airfixx 's newfound boy, one half of the transfer partnership "Chewy and The Dong", and also the RM/RW for Dijon, Mounir Chouiar. He's got something BC. Saw a little something in their game v Lyon but he really caught my eye in their game vs PSG that I kept telling you to take in but you kept telling me to GFM in your inimitable way.
 
todd1882 said:
Airfixx Airfixx 's newfound boy, one half of the transfer partnership "Chewy and The Dong", and also the RM/RW for Dijon, Mounir Chouiar. He's got something BC. Saw a little something in their game v Lyon but he really caught my eye in their game vs PSG that I kept telling you to take in but you kept telling me to GFM in your inimitable way.
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....Bound to be mustard! :fingers:
 
Airfixx said:
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Kinda wonder where BC's been the last 40 years. But considering he is a man that can't/doesn't/won't appreciate The Princess Bride I can better understand this.
 
Airfixx said:
This "option to buy" biz works well for a team like us.
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So we don't fall foul of FFP? So we don't do a Leeds? So we can improve on our 8th position in the Deloitte money table? So we can reduce our world record ticket prices?
Please expand on why loaning players should specifically suit a ..team like us....and what rewards you expect this ground breaking approach to bring.
 
John Thomas said:
So we don't fall foul of FFP? So we don't do a Leeds? So we can improve on out 8th position in the Deloitte money table? So we can reduce our world record ticket prices?
Please expand on why loaning players should specifically suit a ..team like us....and what rewards you expect this ground breaking approach to bring.
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Grab your Fisher Price calculator and I'll go through it with you.....

Nah.... Can't be arsed!
 
John Thomas said:
So we don't fall foul of FFP? So we don't do a Leeds? So we can improve on our 8th position in the Deloitte money table? So we can reduce our world record ticket prices?
Please expand on why loaning players should specifically suit a ..team like us....and what rewards you expect this ground breaking approach to bring.
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Looking at our first XI and squad for that matter though John, realistically what do we need? 5-8 really good players? Possibly more with Lloris getting on a bit?

Not a funny question, you know I think you're a good poster even if our views differ slightly mate but I'd genuinely like to know what positions we need investment in and how much that could cost.

Doesn't an 18 month for £3.5m with option to buy make sense? Spread the cost out a little etc.

I see us probably needing a GK, RB, CB, possibly a LB, a DM, CM, maybe a WF and a backup FWD but if you disagree with those positions long term I'd be keen to hear. All of that potentially required whilst we keep players like Son and Dele sweet that's a shit ton of dough whilst we consider the debt we need to pay off withnthe new build. I don't see how it's a bad deal to be had keeping things realistic, especially with CM being way down the list of things we needed until Tanguy and Sissoko developed their issues.
 
Park Lane Mark Twain said:
Looking at our first XI and squad for that matter though John, realistically what do we need? 5-8 really good players?
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I think you are right and I, personally, appreciate the manner in which you asked the question. And furthermore would appreciate if this discussion, in the appropriate transfer thread, could occur without recrimination of those that take a more critical perspective.

To answer your question we have to first answer the question what we are and what are our objectives and timeline. The hiring of Mou, based on history, says we are going to splash the cash ie target more finished products instead of growing our team. But that's at odds with DL's recent words, what we have done in the very recent past with the previous manager, and our willingness to avail ourselves of loan signings (the wisdom of which notwithstanding).

IMO 5-8 new quality/finished product signings would be needed to challenge for the league if that was our objective. But considering what the other clubs may do that may be a minimum for top 4. Folks laugh at Woolwich because of their backline but they aren't far away and with a need of fewer players than us. Chelsea are ahead of us and will be looking to address their deficiencies. And Manu will spend as will City. I say we may have screwed the pooch (no pun intended though in-line with my personal beliefs) in the last two years.

And beyond that, though I give DL huge props for the work he has done, I have never felt that he has wanted ultimate success, or better yet wanted to plan/pay for ultimate success. If it happened on the cheap during the Poch years he would have been more than happy accepting it while reinforcing our club MO as far as finances. But he knows that sustaining that level of success would take a capital outlay that was inconsistent with ENIC's outook. That's not faulting him that's just reality. The key was growing our revenue which he has. But even that only gets us into the conversation for top 4 and not world domination...and as everyone knows every Napoleonic bald billionaire desires world domination.


Park Lane Mark Twain said:
Not a funny question, you know I think you're a good poster even if our views differ slightly mate but I'd genuinely like to know what positions we need investment in and how much that could cost.
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It's the popular take on the triple constraint triangle. Where do you want to be at the end of the rebuild and figure out your time, money, quality needed. If you allot more time then you can save money and develop the quality from cheaper raw materials. If you want it in a typical Mou appointment then the quality and money necessary in the short term is going to be enormous. But make no mistake here the scope is every position on the field with most being replacement/starter level.

Edit: Just would like to add that I do believe much can be achieved if we improved our scouting and actually pulled the trigger earlier on youth moves before the likes of BVB, Lyon, Lille, etc get there. If we think we are above this then it costs ie in with a DOF.
 
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It's the classic chicken and egg

Whilst the 'money tree' element on this site want to spend a billion on new players like Chelsea and City did, something that got City in trouble with FFP, and still requires constant 'loans' from Roman to stop Chelsea going bust ... the 'ultra cautious' element have seen Leeds, Portsmouth, Wimbledon and a few more gamble away their futures by spending cash they never had, they would rather just develop teenagers hoping they all come good at once, and keep the money in the bank.

Somewhere in the middle is the balance between us buying proven big name stars, players worth a punt, and youth development, making the substantial investment required in the squad without going bust.

No squad is ever the finished article, players age, get injured, or get tempted by huge cash elsewhere - so every club needs to be constantly planning ahead - for a while Chelsea and City managed to avoid that requirement by just buying the best player they could for every position, but even with billionaire Oligarchs and a whole Country's cash EPL rules simply won't allow that anymore, you can only spend what you earn, even with massively inflated sponsorship deals that still sets a limit. It's why revenue is now the key to success, it's why we built NWHL.

So where does that leave clubs? Well as a top club with 500m coming in every year you will always be able to spend 80m, 100m even 200m on proven talent, but that's still not enough clubs will also need to invest in potential, that used to be 5m teenagers now they are 30m. A 'failed' player at a big club will still cost you 40m ... so even that route is limited, and of course at the 30/40m level you have another 20 EPL clubs and a bunch of European clubs all fighting over the same player ... bargains will be very hard to find.

So that leaves loans, these work two ways, top clubs can buy all the best young players and then loan them out to be developed at someone else's cost, it's what happens now. Wise to this the EPL has made loan rules a lot more stringent in the UK just two loans between UK clubs. Gone are the days of 200 players on the books as Chelsea did so well. However you can still have four 'foreign' players on loan and that's the 'opportunity' that we, and a lot of other UK clubs, will now grasp. Loan players will go to where they see an opportunity to get playing time, get coached by a top manager, and train in great facilities ... as a loan player their wages will be pretty much the same wherever they go, they are paid by the parent club under the existing contract. So being in London, with Mourinho, in the best stadium on the planet, with the best training facilities ... just why wouldn't you join us?

Imagine West Ham trying to pitch a portacabin, a running track, and David Moyes over THFC .... Gedson must have pissed himself laughing ...

We need to grab this advantage and make sure we have four very decent loan players on the books ... if even one turns into the next Gazza, Ginola, or Hoddle then happy days.
 
Son Piatek Lo Celso
Sess Ndombele Gedson Cancelo
Sanchez Toby Tanganga
Gazza

Can transition into the 4321 as well

Piatek
Son Lo Celso Gedson
Ndombele Tanganga
Sess Sanchez Toby Cancelo
Gazza

Get Cancelo and Piatek in and let’s go
 
BangkokSpud said:
It's the classic chicken and egg

Whilst the 'money tree' element on this site want to spend a billion on new players like Chelsea and City did, something that got City in trouble with FFP, and still requires constant 'loans' from Roman to stop Chelsea going bust ... the 'ultra cautious' element have seen Leeds, Portsmouth, Wimbledon and a few more gamble away their futures by spending cash they never had, they would rather just develop teenagers hoping they all come good at once, and keep the money in the bank.

Somewhere in the middle is the balance between us buying proven big name stars, players worth a punt, and youth development, making the substantial investment required in the squad without going bust.

No squad is ever the finished article, players age, get injured, or get tempted by huge cash elsewhere - so every club needs to be constantly planning ahead - for a while Chelsea and City managed to avoid that requirement by just buying the best player they could for every position, but even with billionaire Oligarchs and a whole Country's cash EPL rules simply won't allow that anymore, you can only spend what you earn, even with massively inflated sponsorship deals that still sets a limit. It's why revenue is now the key to success, it's why we built NWHL.

So where does that leave clubs? Well as a top club with 500m coming in every year you will always be able to spend 80m, 100m even 200m on proven talent, but that's still not enough clubs will also need to invest in potential, that used to be 5m teenagers now they are 30m. A 'failed' player at a big club will still cost you 40m ... so even that route is limited, and of course at the 30/40m level you have another 20 EPL clubs and a bunch of European clubs all fighting over the same player ... bargains will be very hard to find.

So that leaves loans, these work two ways, top clubs can buy all the best young players and then loan them out to be developed at someone else's cost, it's what happens now. Wise to this the EPL has made loan rules a lot more stringent in the UK just two loans between UK clubs. Gone are the days of 200 players on the books as Chelsea did so well. However you can still have four 'foreign' players on loan and that's the 'opportunity' that we, and a lot of other UK clubs, will now grasp. Loan players will go to where they see an opportunity to get playing time, get coached by a top manager, and train in great facilities ... as a loan player their wages will be pretty much the same wherever they go, they are paid by the parent club under the existing contract. So being in London, with Mourinho, in the best stadium on the planet, with the best training facilities ... just why wouldn't you join us?

Imagine West Ham trying to pitch a portacabin, a running track, and David Moyes over THFC .... Gedson must have pissed himself laughing ...

We need to grab this advantage and make sure we have four very decent loan players on the books ... if even one turns into the next Gazza, Ginola, or Hoddle then happy days.
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Not only do solid loans make sense for those very reasons (Linked to players like Koulibaly for £80m just isn't practical for the risk/ reward involved financially for our club, especially when no sell on value presents itself with his age at 28 years but I think spreads our costs over a longer period.

Lo Celso's loan turned a committed summer of £150m or so into a £100m risk summer instead. That's kind of decision making may look short sighted or unambitious but it's given us more time to make a decision/ commit or pay it off and has probably freed up funds for this window as well if we so chose to.

Gedson gets as long at the club as what Lucas Moura pretty much has had whilst we don't have any commitment to it? That's an extra €50m we wouldn't have had to lump on him we can utilise elsewhere at a time when Aurier looks shoddy still, Vertonghen's legs could have gone, Eriksen wants offski. That's a quality signings or 2x prospects we can bring in to ensure the rebuild doesn't hamstring us and isn't now too drawn out to the point senior figures like Kane lose hope and develop wandering eyes.

We've seen Tielemans join Leicester on loan, Suarez and Ceballos do the same at Woolwich, Everton do the same who with Andre Gomes & Sidibe, Wolves sign Vallejo on loan from Real Madrid etc as you said it just makes sense in times where finances are crazy to take advantage of this whilst trying to stay afoot and competitive with the rest of the league.

The PL has the most money flowing through it, foreign teams will see us as ripe for the picking when ramping fees up and if they want to put their money where their mouths are let the players they're looking to sell have a tester year in the leagues hardest one to adjust to, prove their worth and then they can justify such inflated prices. It's a clever move to make as opposed to being lumped with a £60m dud. If it doesn't work out well the selling club have gained a years worth of exposure for the player in the worlds most watched league and they get a player back with 12 months worth of high energy football experience under their belts. All in all it's uniquely a win/win.
 
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prinmemo said:
Just watched Juventus dominate Udinese. Absolute clinic. We are so far below them right now. We need better players and time to gel.

I don’t care who we get this transfer window as long as we get appreciably better. We need to have a good summer transfer window, too.
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To and watch replays of us playing juventus. We dominated them.

In pre season we made them look like a championship team.
 
Ze Luis deal deal looks dead, it could take two months to get a work permit and that's if it's approved, we can appeal for a quick decision but apparently only after we sign him? just how weird is that?
 
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