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Transfers January 2022 - Transfer Window

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todd1882 said:
Yes, yes, duly noted and previously understood. But there's a hell of a chasm between what Deschamps is serving up, the point you're making, and the implied full-Ossie you're suggesting with 'expansive teams'. I'm not saying you need to go full Bielsa but most reasonable tacticians could get France playing something slighly more entertaining without sacrificing solidity...you know, considering their overwhelming talent advantage.

He's Nuno with bad teeth and hair. Give Herve Renard the job!!!! France doesn't have the stones to do that. Would be too much sexy on the sidelines with him and Giroud. *

If memory serves they played shit towards the back end of that cup. And again, don't forget the overwhelming talent advantage. Folks have made many a manager a legend when the reality shows they just had more talent...looking at you Mou!


*obvs taking the piss
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They played the most entertaining World Cup final since… well, since the last time France won a World Cup 🤪. Game against Argentina in the second round was entertaining too. And they did so with a genuinely tough set of fixtures… no gimmes against African or Asian sides.

I think you’re exaggerating how badly France play. Definitely potential to play something better and if France don’t do well in Qatar then Deschamps will go. But they have beaten every big European team in the past few years (Spain, Belgium, Italy, Germany… England in 2017) showing versatility. And as you say the talent is unreal. It’s eye watering.

Xoxo
 
LeParisien said:
It’s a talking point in France too. But expansive teams haven’t done well in euros or world cups for a while. International success is normally built on control and a feeling that you won’t concede when under pressure for 20 minutes. A few magic players and you’re set.

France were pretty majestic when they were winning a word cup in 2018 so there’s some merit to what they’re doing ;)
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Au contraire. 2 of the last 3 WC and 2 of the last 4 EC's were won by pretty proactive teams. With that squad, what Deschamps did in 2018 definitely wasn't majestic, it wasn't winning, it was losing with a bauble.

WC
Germany 2014
Spain 2010

EC
Italy 2020(1)
Spain 2012
 
Raumdeuterz said:
Pogba not press resistant?
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Welp, was THAT my claim? Or was it...
todd1882 said:
For all his technical ability and touch he is not a very press resistant player nor is he quick with the ball.
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Are those two statements the same? You know, "not press resistant" and "not a very press resistant player" relative to his technical ability. I would argue that you are setting up a strawman while mischaracterizing my point.

Please debate in good faith...

Now, Pogba can escape and run off with the ball but he is rarely under control and often it ends up with him in an awful challenge. He can be harassed quite easily into an error while on the ball. Search any Liverpool-ManU game for incontrovertible proof. And though folks of bad faith may be tempted to shout "but that's liverpool blah blah blah", there are many players that don't brick it against Liverpool.

Raumdeuterz said:
So France play pragmatic football, that doesn’t take anything away from my point. Pogba is still a monster for them and at the heart of everything good they have done in recent tournaments. They’ve still won a World Cup and reached the finals of the Euros. Who cares what they appear like, aesthetically? It’s been effective and he’s been key to it.
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So what does this point have to do with anything? What is the correlation between international football success (with the most talented team on the planet) and him 'thriving' anywhere else he goes? Again, one of my points is that you are talking about a player that you have not identified why they suck in the PL. You say it's motivation. You are wrong. Folks say similar about Dele and why things are going wrong for him. but they are wrong too.

If Pogba goes to italy he will be provided the time and space he needs to play his game. If he goes anywhere else he might have problems depending on the situation/setup/supporting talent.
 
bus-conductor said:
Au contraire. 2 of the last 3 WC and 2 of the last 4 EC's were won by pretty proactive teams. With that squad, what Deschamps did in 2018 definitely wasn't majestic, it wasn't winning, it was losing with a bauble.

WC
Germany 2014
Spain 2010

EC
Italy 2020(1)
Spain 2012
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Spain were one of the most boring teams I've ever had the displeasure to watch. Sucked the fun out of each and every game they were involved in.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
England have about four right backs alone better than any French talent. Cope. In fact we have a right back more creative than any French midfielder... double cope.
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I think we’re coping just fine.

Right back is the only position where England are stronger.

Lloris>Pickford
Varane and Kimpembe > Maguire and whoever
Théo Hernandez > Shaw

Kante and Pogba > Rice and Hendo

Mbappé and Coman > Foden and Sterling

Benzema = Kane

Not really possible to do this silly game because we play different formations but France better or equal everywhere except right back.

If football were played with 5 right backs then England would win everything 😂😂
 
LeParisien said:
They played the most entertaining World Cup final since… well, since the last time France won a World Cup 🤪. Game against Argentina in the second round was entertaining too. And they did so with a genuinely tough set of fixtures… no gimmes against African or Asian sides.

I think you’re exaggerating how badly France play. Definitely potential to play something better and if France don’t do well in Qatar then Deschamps will go. But they have beaten every big European team in the past few years (Spain, Belgium, Italy, Germany… England in 2017) showing versatility. And as you say the talent is unreal. It’s eye watering.

Xoxo
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1998 France were great.

2018 they weren't even the better side, Croatia were well on top until the streakers appeared. France were just deadly on the counter in that final.

I am a huge fan of many of the French squad, I think France's second 11 could win a WC. But the terrible football - and lack of imagination that Deschamps has shown has cost them 2016 and 2020 Euros - which they should have been pissing based on their squad advantage over all the main competitors.
 
bus-conductor said:
Au contraire. 2 of the last 3 WC and 2 of the last 4 EC's were won by pretty proactive teams. With that squad, what Deschamps did in 2018 definitely wasn't majestic, it wasn't winning, it was losing with a bauble.

WC
Germany 2014
Spain 2010

EC
Italy 2020(1)
Spain 2012
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Proactive is not the same as expansive.

Germany were not proactive anyway. They were fortunate not to be beaten by Algeria, played out a deathly boring victory over France and an incredibly mediocre final against Argentina. The only sparkle was an insanely good win against Brazil in the semis.

Spain were all about control which was my point.

If you didn’t see the most entertaining final in decades then I’m sorry. Win against Argentina was probably the game of the tournament. And beating Uruguay and Belgium with strong defensive performances and a clinical edge is exactly what it takes to win a big tournament.
 
LeParisien said:
I think we’re coping just fine.

Right back is the only position where England are stronger.

Lloris>Pickford
Varane and Kimpembe > Maguire and whoever
Théo Hernandez > Shaw

Kante and Pogba > Rice and Hendo

Mbappé and Coman > Foden and Sterling

Benzema = Kane

Not really possible to do this silly game because we play different formations but France better or equal everywhere except right back.

If football were played with 5 right backs then England would win everything 😂😂
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I was kidding. But I disagree with most of your assessments. I wouldn't swap the attacking talent England have for the attacking talent France have, and I wouldn't swap England's fullbacks for France's either, including left back.

Let's see if Theo out-performs Chilwell/Shaw in the Premier League, or if Coman can replicate what Sterling does here. Varane certainly doesn't look anything particularly special so far. Declan Rice is outperforming either Pogba or even Kante for a good while now league wise.
 
bus-conductor said:
1998 France were great.

2018 they weren't even the better side, Croatia were well on top until the streakers appeared. France were just deadly on the counter in that final.

I am a huge fan of many of the French squad, I think France's second 11 could win a WC. But the terrible football - and lack of imagination that Deschamps has shown has cost them 2016 and 2020 Euros - which they should have been pissing based on their squad advantage over all the main competitors.
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France deservedly won that final. They were 4-1 up and you want to write a narrative that Croatia were better in any way? Pushing credibility.

Hugo even gifted them a goal to add some credibility to the win.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
I was kidding. But I disagree with most of your assessments. I wouldn't swap the attacking talent England have for the attacking talent France have, and I wouldn't swap England's fullbacks for France's either, including left back.

Let's see if Theo out-performs Chilwell/Shaw in the Premier League, or if Coman can replicate what Sterling does here. Varane certainly doesn't look anything particularly special so far. Declan Rice is outperforming either Pogba or even Kante for a good while now league wise.
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Varane was starting centre back for 4 champions league wins and a World Cup win. And you want to argue he’s nothing special ?

Rice is better than kante? Ok.

If the standard is playing in the PL instead of being one of the most decorated centre backs of all time or scoring a winning goal in a champions league final then I’ll conceded England is better. Otherwise lmao.
 
LeParisien said:
Varane was starting centre back for 4 champions league wins and a World Cup win. And you want to argue he’s nothing special ?

Rice is better than kante? Ok.

If the standard is playing in the PL instead of being one of the most decorated centre backs of all time or scoring a winning goal in a champions league final then I’ll conceded England is better. Otherwise lmao.
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He's nothing special now when he's currently playing in England. None of his performances this season have been particularly good. Last I watched him play he was getting given the absolute run around by Ollie Watkins. Maybe the Premier League is too much for him and he needs to go back to La Liga? Who knows.

In his career? No. On current premier league performances this season? Absolutely yes. Rice was better than Kante last season too, in fact I remember Chelsea fans on his back until pretty late in the season where he had a run and suddenly he became a Ballon d or shout. Rice is currently a 90-100m talent, he's fucking brilliant.

The Premier League is the super league of football currently, and will continue to be for the foreseeable.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
He's nothing special now when he's currently playing in England. None of his performances this season have been particularly good. Last I watched him play he was getting given the absolute run around by Ollie Watkins. Maybe the Premier League is too much for him and he needs to go back to La Liga? Who knows.

In his career? No. On current premier league performances this season? Absolutely yes. Rice was better than Kante last season too, in fact I remember Chelsea fans on his back until pretty late in the season where he had a run and suddenly he became a Ballon d or shout. Rice is currently a 90-100m talent, he's fucking brilliant.

The Premier League is the super league of football currently, and will continue to be for the foreseeable.
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Sky Sports? Is that you?
 
LeParisien said:
Sky Sports? Is that you?
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I'll remember this and come back again when an English team wins the CL yet again. And will do for the next 2-3 seasons as well.

Two all English finals in the space of 3 seasons. There is no debate that the Premier League is currently the super league of Europe and head and shoulders above the rest. None at all. Not so long ago it was La Liga, so maybe in 5 years it'll shift, who knows.
 
LeParisien said:
France deservedly won that final. They were 4-1 up and you want to write a narrative that Croatia were better in any way? Pushing credibility.

Hugo even gifted them a goal to add some credibility to the win.
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Croatia dominated the ball, played better football. France parked a bus, were also given a very dubious penalty. two breakaway goals in 6 minutes killed Croatia, who were dominating the game but seemed to lose concentration and rhythm after the break for the pitch invaders.

Look, I think this French squad over the last 6 years has been one of the most talented, all over the pitch, that I've seen (I'm 55). (for the record I think Deuterz Deuterz is mad saying he wouldn't swap most of the England players). As todd1882 todd1882 said, there's a huge chasm between the totally passive, risk averse shit Deschamps has been serving up and "expansive" gung ho foolishness.

It's taken Deschamps 5 years to even pluck up the bollocks to play proper FB's instead of CB's as FB's, and he's only doing that by squeezing another CB onto the pitch in a back 3.
 
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Raumdeuterz said:
I'll remember this and come back again when an English team wins the CL yet again. And will do for the next 2-3 seasons as well.

Two all English finals in the space of 3 seasons. There is no debate that the Premier League is currently the super league of Europe and head and shoulders above the rest. None at all. Not so long ago it was La Liga, so maybe in 5 years it'll shift, who knows.
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Thé super league of football is the Champions League. That is the pinnacle of club football.
 
LeParisien said:
I think we’re coping just fine.

Right back is the only position where England are stronger.

Lloris>Pickford
Varane and Kimpembe > Maguire and whoever
Théo Hernandez > Shaw

Kante and Pogba > Rice and Hendo

Mbappé and Coman > Foden and Sterling

Benzema = Kane

Not really possible to do this silly game because we play different formations but France better or equal everywhere except right back.

If football were played with 5 right backs then England would win everything 😂😂
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Click to shrink...

Agree with most except:

Benzema > Kane
 
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