It's difficult... I agree.
If a kid and parent are in PL do you stop swearing, probably but if I move I would probably start again as there is nothing inherently wrong with swearing.
-
The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...
Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports
If a kid and parent are in PL do you stop swearing, probably but if I move I would probably start again as there is nothing inherently wrong with swearing.
Good analogy, I've on numerous occasions had to apologise for my language when I've noticed a kid in earshot. The kid though isn't offended and the parent/adult might be irked but welcomed any apology with good humour.
I love our collective stance and the context behind how we have appropriated the word but it simply doesn't change the fact that to some, it is deeply offensive. It's not a misplaced swear word that a nod and a wink will cover-up.
I'm saying all this as I so rarely sing it nowadays because of the fella (a lovely man) that I sit next to and as a consequence I don't miss it one bit. If our collective attitude is one of appropriation and anti-fascist and anti-semite then what really is wrong with singing Hava Nagila instead? The meaning and significance is at least the same, if not more so as there isn't any confusion around the context.
What really annoys me is Liverpool were praised for the "I'll be Muslim too" chant for Salah, where we are demonised in the media for singing "The thing I love most is being a yid". IMO there will be no loss of identity if we dropped it.
The ONLY people that matter in this are the Jewish Spurs fans.
Yid is no longer sung to signify anti-fascist, that's not why the majority are now singing Yid Army - its 95% plus about us as a fan base / shared experiences etc. Its about Spurs, that's one small part of us, the meaning has changed.
I can see an argument for getting rid of it completely (I don't agree with that argument) but singing something else that relates to Jewishness misses the point imo. Yid Army is no longer a predominantly Jewish connotation / meaning.
It is if you are Jewish and offended by it's use.
It is if you are Sieg Heiling Spurs fans as they make their way to their seats.
Intent is key in all things - I am not trying to change your/ their mind, I just disagree.
They are going to Sieg heil with or without us shouting Yid Army, they do not do it in retaliation.
I actually disagree with that. Go to any West Ham or Chelsea game and you'll hear Yid sung louder and more consistently than say at a Woolwich game, I maintain that's provocation on our part. Surely you can agree that it's sung by us differently in those two games than any other and I've seen Nazi salutes from Woolwich, Leicester fans, Southampton fans, which didn't even register with Spurs fans at the time.
Hopefully we'll all get those cardboard clapper things, then we can really get a proper football atmosphere going.
Sooner or later The Guardian will run some whiney article on the game's carbon footprint and it will be time to take the tent down and go home for good
Bit melodramatic mate.
It can't be that difficult to create an atmosphere without derogatory/racist/offensive language?
I can't say I have ever noticed us singing it more at West Ham / Chelsea but maybe I have just not noticed. Even if we do I doubt your cause and effect are the right way around, those that are going to hiss / Salute are going to do it anyway not only due to provocation, us singing wont suddenly remind them. I can see us singing it more in response but as I said not something I have noticed.
I have always maintained we have to be careful on what we enforce and want to be enforced as its a slippery slope. There's loads of non-homophobic / non-racist stuff out there that does offend me but I wouldn't want banned, because before you know it all offensive / perceived offence will be banned.
Interestingly in Spain I saw they had the first walk off at the weekend due to offensive language, perversely it was not racism but due to calling a player a Nazi.
The hate is just as much part of the game as the love - Its panto.
- racism / homophobia has no part in our society.
One of my most memorable / enjoyed moments at the game is when I came in late against Portsmouth ( wasn't a regular match goer) and heard 25000 people singing Ooooooh Sol Campbel. My favourite is when we were 2-1 down against Servilla and 30,000 singing Martin Jols White and Blue Army for 20 minutes solid. - Love / Hate.
Last edited:
Sorry mate it cuts both ways and is more than a bit of both. I'm telling you if we are going there it's sung before we even get to the ground before a Chelsea or West Ham fan is even spotted. And therein lies another problem when things get all anti-semitic and what feeds the Badiel's of this world to chirp up when the vast majority of Spurs aren't Jewish are called for provoking it. It is 100% provocation because that same intent would be there even if they weren't singing it, it's the very essence of a salty derby (which I love BTW).
What I'm saying here is we (and they) would be looking for provocation because it's a derby, this I love if I'm honest, I love when it's edgy, I love waiting on the High Rd for Woolwich to run the gauntlet. It's all provocation irrespective of any word sung, but when it is used it's used to provoke the other lot to come back with a nazi salute, it's used so that they can hiss, so that we can get annoyed so that we can be outraged. So that it spices up the atmosphere so that it gets salty so that things might kick-off.
It's often debated just how tame the Woolwich derbies are compared to Chelsea and West Ham, I wonder what the ingredient is that has changed to make this so???
I’m uncomfortable with it on multi levels.
The obvious offence it can cause to some.
And I don’t really like the association - it creates in my brain anyway - with the deplorable Israeli quasi apartheid government regimes of recent years.
And I know their “governments” aren’t representative of all Jewish people, and many are as appalled and opposed to them as I am, and I am also well aware of the complexities of this particular geopolitical clusterfuck (and that they aren’t one sided) but the association still doesn’t sit easy with me.
The obvious offence it can cause to some.
And I don’t really like the association - it creates in my brain anyway - with the deplorable Israeli quasi apartheid government regimes of recent years.
And I know their “governments” aren’t representative of all Jewish people, and many are as appalled and opposed to them as I am, and I am also well aware of the complexities of this particular geopolitical clusterfuck (and that they aren’t one sided) but the association still doesn’t sit easy with me.
I wish people would stop saying Y-word, just say the fucking word ffs. The club did this long consultation and can't even bring themselves to write yid. Not only do they not understand context but they are saying it is wrong to use the word.I see the club has published an official response to the recent consultation
Y-word consultation update | Tottenham Hotspur
At the beginning of August, the Club commenced its consultation with fans on their use of the Y-word. We received more than 23,000 responses and we can now share the results...www.tottenhamhotspur.com
More controversy is coming, like it or not, so I guess it makes sense they've published a strong pre-emptive statement like this.
The origins of the Y-word are historically complicated - they mean different things depending on what part of the world you look at, and when. Comparing it to other forms of hate speech that have emerged over time will only take you so far as it has a unique etymology.
One other point - as the club rebrands I think they might change their attitude and go from a position of reclaiming to rejection. Anything that's likely to obstruct cash flows (especially given the ongoing issue of stadium naming rights) will likely be frowned upon. I know for a fact internally the club take a 'front foot' approach to denature possible controversy surrounding the Y-word, but I can see that changing.
One other point - as the club rebrands I think they might change their attitude and go from a position of reclaiming to rejection. Anything that's likely to obstruct cash flows (especially given the ongoing issue of stadium naming rights) will likely be frowned upon. I know for a fact internally the club take a 'front foot' approach to denature possible controversy surrounding the Y-word, but I can see that changing.
I do think it's a difficult one and everyone one of us will have a different view and experience of the word.
For me personally growing up I wasn't really aware of the word in relation to us as a club, I only knew yid as an offensive term used against people. As a result I was quite surprised to hear it chanted at games when I started going.
I personally don't use the word or join in yid songs when I'm at games, but I'm not against people using the word in a football context.
For me personally growing up I wasn't really aware of the word in relation to us as a club, I only knew yid as an offensive term used against people. As a result I was quite surprised to hear it chanted at games when I started going.
I personally don't use the word or join in yid songs when I'm at games, but I'm not against people using the word in a football context.