I think Marco Rose is doing a decent job at Mönchengladbach and someone you probably would've expected in that list.
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Manager Jose Mourinho
- Thread starter paddy hotspur
- Start date
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I love Poch as much as the next fella, but that's ridiculous company to place him alongside. He has won nothing.
I know he didn't get every acquisition he needed, but he had peak Kane, Dele, Dembele, Toby, Jan, Walker, Rose, Dier and Wanyama and won absolutely fuck all. In your list, he belongs comfortably in the second tier. Replace him with Simeone.
How the fuck is Pochettino in the same bracket as Pep and Klopp? Come on mate Jesus Christ, get a grip.
If he has won the stuff they have won in the next 15 years maybe he can go in that top bracket but managers are judged on what they have won, not how many fucking finals they have been to or how great their style of football is or how fantastic they are at working within a budget.
Poch has won nothing, therefore he should be nowhere near that bracket.
Take the Levy stuff to the Levy thread is the main point here mate.
This is the Jose thread.
Levy didn't have to sack Poch. Something did have to be done though that much is clear (and yes I do appreciate the argument for sacking him is a valid one).
So without all the behind doors stuff available for us we are left with the understanding that:
1. The team was stale and getting old - It, therefore, need a refresh, which means players needed to be sold and new ones brought in.
2. Part of the staleness was also with how the players interact with the manager - In our case the players were still playing for him it's just that they've heard it all before, it's hard to run through brick walls all over again, hard to buy into and give it you're all in such a demanding environment. Same happened with Klopp at Dortmund and maybe we are seeing that at City under Pep too this year (it's also why Pep moved on from Bayern as players levels had started to drop and he was beginning to piss the staff off, not everyone was onboard). It is from here that the decision comes to do you sack the coach or sell the players.
3. For those that wanted Poch to stay - It's a case of he deserved to be backed with a "painfull rebuild". He had to endure playing away from home for two seasons. He had to work without the full support of the club behind him as they focused on building the stadium. He had identified it was needed, he had identified the players to replace. The club failed him on selling those players. He was now completely stuck having those same players still at the club stinking out the place. He deserved to use the funds that his football and achievements had generated. Had we not improved then and only then should we have considered making changes.
4. Hiring Jose - IMO goes against everything good that the club as achieved. We had figured out how to make ourselves competitive against the mega clubs in our league and in Europe. Whilst still nowhere near their level of resource we competed and did so consistently. Ignoring this is about as thick a decision as I've ever seen. But to make matters worse we've also ignored (it would appear) that the team need a rebuild. We have a manager that has backed the underperformance of this team and certain individuals, by not only repeatedly selecting them, repeatedly playing them in their wrong positions but also handed out new contracts to them, whilst pushing for new contracts for some other cloggers.
5. A similar manager to Poch - let's assume that the relationship between Poch and levy was shite, there is always one winner. For the sake of this direction let's assume Poch was a complete twat, couldn't manage his way out of a paper bag and was close to having a nervous breakdown, therefore we had no choice to make a change. Why go for Jose? Why not stick to a "new" manager that can build on the direction the club has been going? Why do a complete U-Turn on the style of play?
6. "ahead of schedule" - This phrase has been kicking about now for a couple of years, Poch and I think(?) Levy have both said it. I think that it was also a fair assessment. The feeling was that by the time we get to the new stadium we should be in a position to hit the ground running, was this (the time we are now in) meant to be "on schedule"? Think about that for a second, I'd say today we are further away from being "on schedule" than we were 5yrs ago when things started to click under Poch!!!
7. The common consensus (from those that like him and those that don't) is that Jose is a short term manager - Then he has to be critiqued as one. We have to look at what he's influenced and what he's changed. How he's got us playing and whether there are any signs that we are on track to fulfil our "on schedule promise".
8. "on Schedule promise" - If we are miles away from delivering it (I think we are) then why hire a shorty term manger to fix? If we need a rebuild then why hire Jose the short term fix?
Not every manager gets to manage the elite clubs in Europe. It's fair to say that he would be a Real Madrid Manager by now had he not stayed with us. Had he made that move he would have won something by now. If he went to PSG he would win the League, fuck it if Sherwood went to PSG he's would win the league, Emry won it with them!!
Poch was converted by the elite clubs for a reason mate because he's regarded as elite. Just as Klopp was regarded as elite, yet he got beat in finals and semi-finals before they beat us in the CL.
There is also the fact that all these clubs are giants we are not. We have almost no history in CL and have only won the League twice in our history. It's amazing how Poch elevated our ego so much that people have lost sight of the scale of what we have done by competing with these teams in consecutive seasons.
(I actually forgot about Simione, who is a terrific Manager but one that I wouldn't label as a progressive coach, put simply I don't like his brand of football. I appreciated at its peak it wasn't Stoke levels of hoofing it, they did play the ball through the thirds but he's not for me but no problem if you wish to add him as he's a quality manager).
Mainly to do with they were shit when he took over. Heading out the league for sure, he then completely turned them around and had them as one of the best teams in the league in the back half of that season. He did it whilst also playing quite good football.
As I type this, Potter at Brighton springs to mind for similarities. Werder Bremen were as shit and as poor to watch as Brighton and the transformation in such a short space of time was/is very similar. Whilst they haven't maintained that this season they aren't cloggers. I think Brighton will finish where they currently are at the moment, which isn't great but given the context that they were just about the worst team to watch and are clearly wedded to an attractive style that on their day means they can and have beaten bigger teams and didn't change how they play, excites me and prooves that there is a good manager at the helm.
Basically I think if you can achieve to get a lesser side to play well then you should equally be able to have a top team playing even better. I think most managers can have a team set-up as Pullis does. But it takes a talented manager to have a team play well (they may get beat because throughout the team there lacks the pool of quality to draw from but my judgement is being made against results).
We don't really know if RM genuinely wanted him. I'm sure he'll end up there at some point, but anyone halfway decent does. And their managers tend to be 'company men' that will approve the board's decisions rather than independent, controlling types.
I wish Poch the very best of luck, but I still think he has question marks over his ability to spot a player and develop talent. I also think he is extremely dogmatic - his style is to essentially to make the team press like nutters and defend from the front. He hasn't demonstrated the ability to mould a flexible team. When the parts started to falter, he wasn't able to change anything.
As you say, he'll go to the less competitive leagues and win domestic titles. At that point, his stature will rightly grow.
So you’re shit scared because they played well twice basically.
You “fear them” and admire their new “style” and see a clear vision as Arteta has stamped his signature onto them in 180 minutes.
But when we improved, it was just a predictable new manager bounce. Nice one.
These are the players (off the top of my head) he developed from unknows to one of the best in their position (perception) also obtained their first international cap under him :
Schiderlin (French cap)
Shaw (England cap)
Lallana (England Cap)
Coutinho (Brazil Cap)
Font (Portugal Cap at the age of 31!!)
Lovren
Clyne (England Cap)
Lambert (England cap)
Rodriguez (England cap)
Mason (England Cap)
Kane (England Cap)
Rose (England Cap)
Walker (then world-record fee for a defender)
Winks (England cap)
Trippier (England cap at the age of 27!!)
Dier (England Cap)
Dele (England cap)
Chambers
At the time most of these were highly regarded, big clubs coming in paying fortunes for them, none of them apart from Coutinho, Kane, Walker, Dele played at the same level as they did under Poch.
All the serious talk (non-red top and clickbait journo's) support that he was their man and that they had made an approach for him, this was at the time of his book launch. That's all we have to go on I believe.
I disagree completely on his tactical flexibility but it's all been said a thousand times and I don't wish to open that box again, shouldn't have typed the above for the same reason.
We HAVEN"T improved!!!! That's the fucking quiz Pal!!!
Poch “developed” Trippier all of a sudden
Interesting........Interesting.
You said Aurier improved us. He plays every week under Jose.
Dele has also been world class again right?
Ok, I get you. Just from looking at their league position and the results, I was confused.
I would have him on the To Watch list personally. Needs to perform consistently before I would get too excited by him.
No, I didn't, I've said Aurier along with Dele have been our better players under Jose. Are you always this thick? Or are you deliberately lying again?
Because 2000 minutes (roughly 20 games) in two years is a massive waste of money to pay somebody
So Aurier playing every week and being one of our better players hasn’t improved us?
I would think Liverpool's wage bill is much higher than Bournemouth's to be fair.
We are shit, do try and keep up.
Just seen somebody type "Aurier" and "better" in the same paragraph 