Joshua Onomah

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The regular youth watchers, and those of us who've seen a few international and Academy games over the years, know that Josh Onomah is a very talented central midfielder, who can break the lines and pick a pass.

There's a reason why Scott Parker, who was inside our club as an Academy coach, targeted Josh as the player he wanted as part of the Sessegnon deal over, it seems, any other of our young prospects.

If he can get past the injuries that plagued him during his loan spells, then Onomah has a very high potential ceiling, definitely top half PL CM.

That said, I think I understand why Poch has developed CMs like Winks and Skipp over Onomah, who only ever seemed to get picked as a wide midfielder, which he categorically is not.

Both Winks and Skipp, who I like and rate as players, are good, tidy, quick passers of the ball, and they're tenacious and disciplined. Skipp was fantastic in pre-season, and showed great spirit and dynamism. I'm more than happy with them as our C/DM options, as Victor is sadly crocked and Dier will be much more effective when he drops back into a defensive role.

At this point, Josh is not dynamic. He's not a Winks/Skipp CM type, and he doesn't have the defensive discipline without the ball that those players have.

Also, as he's adapted to men's football, too often Josh has seemed to be waiting for things to happen, rather than helping to make them happen. But when he was 17-18, he would dominate Academy games.

I think the move to Fulham, under a coach in Parker who clearly wants him to fulfil his potential, is a good one.

And I hope Josh Onomah develops into the player many of us, including the late lamented Ugo Ehiogu, though he would become.

The last top class CM to escape our Academy and become a dominant talent was Graeme Souness.

Josh is a very different type of player, and he's - ahem -not nearly as aggresssive/dirty. But who knows, eh? I'll follow his career with interest, and I hope he makes it. :levywhoa:
 
There's a reason why Scott Parker, who was inside our club as an Academy coach, targeted Josh as the player he wanted as part of the Sessegnon deal over, it seems, any other of our young prospects.

If he can get past the injuries that plagued him during his loan spells, then Onomah has a very high potential ceiling, definitely top half PL CM.

Great post.
Good point about Parker actually knowing Josh.
There is something there.
 
Great post.
Good point about Parker actually knowing Josh.
There is something there.
While I acknowledge that Scott will know of him, he was only a coach at spurs for one year while Onomah on loan. He left as a player when Josh was 16. No doubt he will have spoken to McDermott about Josh. No doubt there is a footballer in there. Good luck to him.
 
Strange player, was an absolute baller at 17/18 grabbed games by the scruff and simply demanded the ball ... not sure if it was the step up to big boys football, or his injuries, or his confidence but that just seemed to go out of his game. At Villa he had brilliant moments, but also games where he was so anonymous he barely lasted a half, same at Wednesday but there it was more the knee injury that set him back.

Parker has got the makings of a great player in Onomah, but this is also probably Onomah's last chance at the big time, if he can get back to the dominant player he once was then who knows, let's hope he does and hope we have a buy-back clause in there somewhere.
 
Yeah, good luck to him.

Shame it never worked out for him. Had a great size and control and all the ingredients to be a top player in this league, but had injuries at bad times and unfortunately for him came through at a time Wanyama and Dembele simply couldn't be dropped.

If only Poch had played him in his correct position too.
 
Yeah, good luck to him.

Shame it never worked out for him. Had a great size and control and all the ingredients to be a top player in this league, but had injuries at bad times and unfortunately for him came through at a time Wanyama and Dembele simply couldn't be dropped.

If only Poch had played him in his correct position too.
In the article, he lumps a lot of the reasons for non-game time on himself and says his attitude was wrong. More than anything, the mindset has to be right to play/train before Poch makes his selections.

For us sitting outside of the bubble, it's impossible to determine what's right or wrong with the individual development of the player. We don't know whether he's a player that needs love and isn't getting it or if he's a lad that needs to be pushed hard.

What has been a common theme however is that of those players that Poch seemed to have been strict with all the Players have held their hands up and have said the mistakes were theirs, not the manager. That's Onomah, Bentaleb and Townsend (and Edwards to some extent) all saying this now.
 
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Fulham, Forrest, Brentford and Millwall are all form teams, compared to the top 2.

He has every chance of being a Prem player next season, would be gutting if he flourishes with just a season away.
 
In the article, he lumps a lot of the reasons for non-game time on himself and says his attitude was wrong. More than anything, the mindset has to be right to play/train before Poch makes his selections.

For us sitting outside of the bubble, it's impossible to determine what's right or wrong with the individual development of the player. We don't know whether he's a player that needs love and isn't getting it or if he's a lad that needs to be pushed hard.

What has been a common theme however is that of those players that Poch seemed to have been strict with all the Players have held their hands up and have said the mistakes were theirs, not the manager. That's Onomah, Bentaleb and Townsend all saying this now.

I don't believe all the mistakes were theirs though Guido, even if they are owning up to some of them. These are teenagers, why do we expect them to not make mistakes, expect them to be emotionally fully rounded human beings?

I don't think any of Pritchard, Bentaleb, Onomah or Edwards were "bad eggs" or "party animals" like someone like Ravel Morrison for instance. They all just got fucked off being made promises of chances and never getting them.

He says:

"But Onomah doesn’t shy away from the fact that his own frustration and occasional lack of motivation was largely responsible"

I can imagine how easy it must be to get frustrated and demotivated when you get 20 minutes of PL football in three years, and you are constantly watching other players come off the bench when we are 3/4/5-0 up in games with 30 minutes to go.

Then the final kick in the teeth was when he deliberately came back early from winning the Youth WC hoping to get some game in pre season - and Poch brings TOB on instead and plays him in midfield, where he's never played Onomah.

The club who takes these kids aged 8 etc, have a duty not to let them down either and to understand that emotionally they are still adolescent kids going through that change of life turmoil, whilst living in the bubble of football, the bubble that clubs create for them largely.

I do not believe the club (not just ours) or Pochettino were blameless in this process - but I don't hear the club or Pochettino ever saying "we probably could have handled the situation better re some of these kids".

For example, Pochettino operated a distinct double standard when it came to behaviour. Happily forgiving and rewarding senior players like Rose and Aurier for major issues, but operating some kind of zero tolerance for kids.

The article also says:

"Partly, it was due to playing out of position, his opportunities largely coming in snippets on the right wing"

"Unfortunately, it didn’t work out and I felt like I needed games to show what I’m good at and grow as a player.”

"At a time when the club operated under a strict policy of keeping its best prospects in-house, pushing to go on loan ultimately spelt the beginning of the end of Onomah’s time at Tottenham"

I don't blame him, Pritchard, Bentaleb or Edwards (or KWP for that matter) for getting frustrated and demotivated. I don't think KWP in all these years of being "ready" was given two consecutive games. Disgraceful. Regardless of whether he's ultimately top drawer on not. we've watched plenty of purchased RB's blunder their way through the first fifty-hundred games. We can't even give one we've spent 14 years coaching 2. Or Onomah a single game in midfield - even in bloody pre season.

Poch was a fucking fraud when it comes to academy integration. He couldn't stop talking the talk, and milking the adulation for it, but did not walk the walk.
 
Should be moved as he’s no longer our player.
My view of him never changed, I remember seeing on the lineup in Dortmund away with 50 of us saying wtf outside the stadium. Never got his position, never saw anything there.

I’m willing to go 1:7against anyone, Onomah is not going to be a top footballer
 
I don't believe all the mistakes were theirs though Guido, even if they are owning up to some of them. These are teenagers, why do we expect them to not make mistakes, expect them to be emotionally fully rounded human beings?

I don't think any of Pritchard, Bentaleb, Onomah or Edwards were "bad eggs" or "party animals" like someone like Ravel Morrison for instance. They all just got fucked off being made promises of chances and never getting them.

He says:

"But Onomah doesn’t shy away from the fact that his own frustration and occasional lack of motivation was largely responsible"

I can imagine how easy it must be to get frustrated and demotivated when you get 20 minutes of PL football in three years, and you are constantly watching other players come off the bench when we are 3/4/5-0 up in games with 30 minutes to go.

Then the final kick in the teeth was when he deliberately came back early from winning the Youth WC hoping to get some game in pre season - and Poch brings TOB on instead and plays him in midfield, where he's never played Onomah.

The club who takes these kids aged 8 etc, have a duty not to let them down either and to understand that emotionally they are still adolescent kids going through that change of life turmoil, whilst living in the bubble of football, the bubble that clubs create for them largely.

I do not believe the club (not just ours) or Pochettino were blameless in this process - but I don't hear the club or Pochettino ever saying "we probably could have handled the situation better re some of these kids".

For example, Pochettino operated a distinct double standard when it came to behaviour. Happily forgiving and rewarding senior players like Rose and Aurier for major issues, but operating some kind of zero tolerance for kids.

The article also says:

"Partly, it was due to playing out of position, his opportunities largely coming in snippets on the right wing"

"Unfortunately, it didn’t work out and I felt like I needed games to show what I’m good at and grow as a player.”

"At a time when the club operated under a strict policy of keeping its best prospects in-house, pushing to go on loan ultimately spelt the beginning of the end of Onomah’s time at Tottenham"

I don't blame him, Pritchard, Bentaleb or Edwards (or KWP for that matter) for getting frustrated and demotivated. I don't think KWP in all these years of being "ready" was given two consecutive games. Disgraceful. Regardless of whether he's ultimately top drawer on not. we've watched plenty of purchased RB's blunder their way through the first fifty-hundred games. We can't even give one we've spent 14 years coaching 2. Or Onomah a single game in midfield - even in bloody pre season.

Poch was a fucking fraud when it comes to academy integration. He couldn't stop talking the talk, and milking the adulation for it, but did not walk the walk.
We are going off onto a topic that wasn't even being discussed!

The point is "we" the fans make our own judgements bassed of absolutely nothing. We are not there, we don't even know the individual characteristics of the lad in question.

There are simply far too many permutations that make up the development mindset of a professional athlete. Not what he wears, not the car that he drives, not that he posts pictures of his Nandos o social media, or he has a handshake or a tattoo. Nor with the minutes that he gets or doesn't get. We have NO idea what the individual player's specific development goals are (every player has them agreed mainly by him and McDermott (not Poch) but for those players looking to break into the side then obviously Poch is involved in some way too).

(I used to play for Spurs as a kid, I shared house and a flat made up half and half Spurs/Woolwich academy, every single player that made it as a pro in the house (Campbel (not Sol), Sedgeley, Paul Moran) were the worst footballers of a group that numbered close to 20 odd. Some of the talent on the books of both of these clubs just in my time there was unbelievable, all of them didn't have the right mentality to succeed. with the exception of one standout kid Paul Rocastle. This doesn't make them trouble makers or cunts. In many cases, they were really intelligent lads who came from a background where their parents were pushing them to be doctors or solicitors or whatever, and a couple went on to do just that, 4 or 5 caught the wave of investment banking).

The point is they weren't mentally right to make it as a pro. I am acutely aware that there is night and day difference to then and now, I wouldn't dare dream of trying to conflate the two, the specific and ONLY point I'm trying to make is that when a player hasn't got the "right mentality" or whatever other label is used, it's not a negative on their character, there's nothing wrong with them. It's their environment, what they want out of life and at 16yrs old it could mean they just want to get laid.

We have ZERO visibility on this and those that do, parents and appropriate staff at Clubs academies are also struggling with getting the kid "sorted", just as any parent has this job who's son isn't a pro-footballer.

Josh was on a £1m a year!? Reading his admissions and having been involved with the academy for so long and beginning to knock on the door, it seems he wasn't banging it down, thought that he was inevitably was going to make it??? (you see I'm now trying to guess where his head was at based on one or two sentences).

Every player at that age will have the football talent to become a pro, be that in lower leagues, abroad or the small percentage that hit the big time. Not all will have the "mentality/belief/will/understanding" to take that footballing ability and turn it into a profession. Pennies might drop latter on, for others their pathway lies elsewhere, some just unlucky no doubt too. But there is no difference with a kid who wants to be a fireman and ends up selling health insurance, shit gets in the way.
 
We are going off onto a topic that wasn't even being discussed!

The point is "we" the fans make our own judgements bassed of absolutely nothing. We are not there, we don't even know the individual characteristics of the lad in question.

There are simply far too many permutations that make up the development mindset of a professional athlete. Not what he wears, not the car that he drives, not that he posts pictures of his Nandos o social media, or he has a handshake or a tattoo. Nor with the minutes that he gets or doesn't get. We have NO idea what the individual player's specific development goals are (every player has them agreed mainly by him and McDermott (not Poch) but for those players looking to break into the side then obviously Poch is involved in some way too).

(I used to play for Spurs as a kid, I shared house and a flat made up half and half Spurs/Woolwich academy, every single player that made it as a pro in the house (Campbel (not Sol), Sedgeley, Paul Moran) were the worst footballers of a group that numbered close to 20 odd. Some of the talent on the books of both of these clubs just in my time there was unbelievable, all of them didn't have the right mentality to succeed. with the exception of one standout kid Paul Rocastle. This doesn't make them trouble makers or cunts. In many cases, they were really intelligent lads who came from a background where their parents were pushing them to be doctors or solicitors or whatever, and a couple went on to do just that, 4 or 5 caught the wave of investment banking).

The point is they weren't mentally right to make it as a pro. I am acutely aware that there is night and day difference to then and now, I wouldn't dare dream of trying to conflate the two, the specific and ONLY point I'm trying to make is that when a player hasn't got the "right mentality" or whatever other label is used, it's not a negative on their character, there's nothing wrong with them. It's their environment, what they want out of life and at 16yrs old it could mean they just want to get laid.

We have ZERO visibility on this and those that do, parents and appropriate staff at Clubs academies are also struggling with getting the kid "sorted", just as any parent has this job who's son isn't a pro-footballer.

Josh was on a £1m a year!? Reading his admissions and having been involved with the academy for so long and beginning to knock on the door, it seems he wasn't banging it down, thought that he was inevitably was going to make it??? (you see I'm now trying to guess where his head was at based on one or two sentences).

Every player at that age will have the football talent to become a pro, be that in lower leagues, abroad or the small percentage that hit the big time. Not all will have the "mentality/belief/will/understanding" to take that footballing ability and turn it into a profession. Pennies might drop latter on, for others their pathway lies elsewhere, some just unlucky no doubt too. But there is no difference with a kid who wants to be a fireman and ends up selling health insurance, shit gets in the way.

Only point I'd make is that other than Winks none of the other academy players came through in 6 years.

I just don't believe that none of the others had the right skills and mental state.

Players like Oakley-Boothe and Eyoma, both winners of u17 WC were on different preseasons, played well in preseason and then trained for a year with Poch. Both had next to no first team appearances (circa 4 minutes each) and were not allowed to play u23 games, restarted next season in u23's both looking much poorer players than they were a year before. KWP not playing u23 games for 4 years and looked better as a 18 or 19 year old than a 22 year old after 4 years first team training,,,,,,

Onomah, not much different. Loads of appearances, but actually only a few minutes - virtually all played out of position. Not much different to judging CF Harry Kane by judging him by playing him as GK Harry Kane (ok slight exageration to make the point)

Or the alternative, Tanganga called up regularly for E youth coinciding with pre-season so played 30 mins or so v Girona in preseason 2018 but Poch missed him until pre season 2019 when in 4 games he looked very very good against some very good players like Ronaldo. Played in that abomination of a match v Colchester but nothing more until Jose picked him v Liverpool where he remindee everyone of the youngster who played in pre-season 2019.

Poch seemed to be an excellent coach and can claim the bragging rights for lots of semi established players (ie players who had already broken through to first team) such as Kane being greatly improved.

But with academy players aged 18-21, Poch seemed to screw up everyone of them, other than Winks. The idea of not playing any football for a year whilst training with the first team just killed them all. Just don't but the idea it was co0incidence, think it was just bad management of the players development
 
Should be moved as he’s no longer our player.
My view of him never changed, I remember seeing on the lineup in Dortmund away with 50 of us saying wtf outside the stadium. Never got his position, never saw anything there.

I’m willing to go 1:7against anyone, Onomah is not going to be a top footballer

Championship always looked his level, and he appears to have found it. Still not bad at all to have a career there, but I don't know why we persisted with him (playing him in some really important matches as well) when it was blindingly obvious he was not good enough for us.
 
Only point I'd make is that other than Winks none of the other academy players came through in 6 years.

I just don't believe that none of the others had the right skills and mental state.

Players like Oakley-Boothe and Eyoma, both winners of u17 WC were on different preseasons, played well in preseason and then trained for a year with Poch. Both had next to no first team appearances (circa 4 minutes each) and were not allowed to play u23 games, restarted next season in u23's both looking much poorer players than they were a year before. KWP not playing u23 games for 4 years and looked better as a 18 or 19 year old than a 22 year old after 4 years first team training,,,,,,

Onomah, not much different. Loads of appearances, but actually only a few minutes - virtually all played out of position. Not much different to judging CF Harry Kane by judging him by playing him as GK Harry Kane (ok slight exageration to make the point)

Or the alternative, Tanganga called up regularly for E youth coinciding with pre-season so played 30 mins or so v Girona in preseason 2018 but Poch missed him until pre season 2019 when in 4 games he looked very very good against some very good players like Ronaldo. Played in that abomination of a match v Colchester but nothing more until Jose picked him v Liverpool where he remindee everyone of the youngster who played in pre-season 2019.

Poch seemed to be an excellent coach and can claim the bragging rights for lots of semi established players (ie players who had already broken through to first team) such as Kane being greatly improved.

But with academy players aged 18-21, Poch seemed to screw up everyone of them, other than Winks. The idea of not playing any football for a year whilst training with the first team just killed them all. Just don't but the idea it was co0incidence, think it was just bad management of the players development
Really, really hard to see what was planned for them, what he was working towards. Did Poch feel comfortable at the Club with Levy saying he wanted him to be our manager for the next 20yrs or whatever it was he said? Did this mean that he was doing some serious log term planning with those players??

Maybe he had genuine plans for all of them to get into the first team and this was how we wanted to bring them through??? Or as you say he got it all terribly wrong by doing this. We will never know as he's not here.

I said it a few times now he's yet to have any of the players that have left Spurs to prove he was wrong, for me until Edwards, Onomah, CCV, KWP, Velijovic, Oakly-Booth, etc... start to tare it up in a top club in a top league then so far he's got it right. (BTW every single one of those lads I listed I tipped for big things AT SPURS, I thought they were all fantastic and my view is I want them to have massive careers. I never got to see Pritchard kick a ball other than for the odd Norwich and WBA game but never quite got the hype on those fleeting moments).

I'm not saying he's right or wrong, just saying until just one of these lads turns it on then he's got it right. If these lads are right for us then why aren't we buying them back? Edwards & Onomah certainly wouldn't break the bank.

What do you think of Mcdermott? Where is he in all of this?
 
Really, really hard to see what was planned for them, what he was working towards. Did Poch feel comfortable at the Club with Levy saying he wanted him to be our manager for the next 20yrs or whatever it was he said? Did this mean that he was doing some serious log term planning with those players??

Maybe he had genuine plans for all of them to get into the first team and this was how we wanted to bring them through??? Or as you say he got it all terribly wrong by doing this. We will never know as he's not here.

I said it a few times now he's yet to have any of the players that have left Spurs to prove he was wrong, for me until Edwards, Onomah, CCV, KWP, Velijovic, Oakly-Booth, etc... start to tare it up in a top club in a top league then so far he's got it right. (BTW every single one of those lads I listed I tipped for big things AT SPURS, I thought they were all fantastic and my view is I want them to have massive careers. I never got to see Pritchard kick a ball other than for the odd Norwich and WBA game but never quite got the hype on those fleeting moments).

I'm not saying he's right or wrong, just saying until just one of these lads turns it on then he's got it right. If these lads are right for us then why aren't we buying them back? Edwards & Onomah certainly wouldn't break the bank.

What do you think of Mcdermott? Where is he in all of this?

Mc Dermott seems to be silent, at least in public, maybe he doesn't think it appropriate to comment in public. As he has been at Spurs since about 2005, I would hope that he is senior enough to meet with DL from time to time and report that although the academy produces kids up to age of 18, too many do not get developed from there - but I do not know that.

I doubt if we will ever buy the kids back - the only time we ever have done as Peter Crouch to get an HG striker. As I understand it he was 'given' to Gerry Francis in lieu of a pay off when he was sacked as manager but with a sell on clause - unfortunately the club Francis took Crouch went bust invalidating the sell on clause so we never profited from Crouch's career.

In general terms if a player's development is screwed up between the ages of 18-21 sometimes they never recover or it takes years tp do so - look at Adam Smith for example whose development was screwed up at Spurs, took him maybe 5 years before he recovered to being a very decent RB at PL side Bournemouth. But he had been one of the best in E u21 sides alongside Daniel Sturridge whilst at Spurs.
 
Mc Dermott seems to be silent, at least in public, maybe he doesn't think it appropriate to comment in public. As he has been at Spurs since about 2005, I would hope that he is senior enough to meet with DL from time to time and report that although the academy produces kids up to age of 18, too many do not get developed from there - but I do not know that.

I doubt if we will ever buy the kids back - the only time we ever have done as Peter Crouch to get an HG striker. As I understand it he was 'given' to Gerry Francis in lieu of a pay off when he was sacked as manager but with a sell on clause - unfortunately the club Francis took Crouch went bust invalidating the sell on clause so we never profited from Crouch's career.

In general terms if a player's development is screwed up between the ages of 18-21 sometimes they never recover or it takes years tp do so - look at Adam Smith for example whose development was screwed up at Spurs, took him maybe 5 years before he recovered to being a very decent RB at PL side Bournemouth. But he had been one of the best in E u21 sides alongside Daniel Sturridge whilst at Spurs.
Decent shout on Smith but not entirely sure if his team hadn’t has been promoted. I’ve always liked him (that whole class of his were always a likeable bunch and of a high standard too) but is he a top RB? I really don’t think he his.

As head of our academy McDermott is responsible for the development of our academy players.

Non of us know if he agreed or disagreed with the decisions made the last 5 years, seeing as he’s still here dispute significant interest from big rival Clubs (namely Utd) it’s a fair assumption to make that he was happy in his role and how things were at the club and his relationship with Poch. (Publicly they were often seen together).
 
Decent shout on Smith but not entirely sure if his team hadn’t has been promoted. I’ve always liked him (that whole class of his were always a likeable bunch and of a high standard too) but is he a top RB? I really don’t think he his.

As head of our academy McDermott is responsible for the development of our academy players.

Non of us know if he agreed or disagreed with the decisions made the last 5 years, seeing as he’s still here dispute significant interest from big rival Clubs (namely Utd) it’s a fair assumption to make that he was happy in his role and how things were at the club and his relationship with Poch. (Publicly they were often seen together).
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McDermott has never been disparaging about any of the managers he's seen -and they go from Jol, Ramos, Redknapp, AVB, Sherwood, Poch, Mourhino - so he's seen the full range of managers, some of whom did good things for youth, some ignored youth and some we don't know. Some he may have started off liking and then got to disliking and vice versa, we really don't know. In some ways the ultimate corporate man.

My point on Adam Smith is looked a real top prospect both at Spurs and England u21's, was not well developed at Spurs who then bought Waller and Naughton which must have been a kick in the teeth for him, joined Bournemouth then in Championship and today plays in a PL team. When injured Bournemouth brought in Clyne (Liverpool former England fullback) on loan, but he regained his place after injury and Clyne sent back to Liverpoool. So I think its fair to say he's a decent PL level footballer - but maybe he would have been even better had he been fully developed at Spurs and Spurs hadn't bought Naughton (not a good PL level player) and Walker - we'll never know his full potential or whether he reached it at Bournemouth.
 
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