Kieran Trippier

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And this is where we fundamentally disagree. I hate seeing the ball pumped aimlessly into the box, it's low percentage, easy to defend against, it concedes possession, it allows the oppo to counter (especially in the space of the RB that is now not athletic enough to get back into position). And before anyone says "what no crosses ever", no, of course not, It's good to put "some" crosses in, but it's all he does, there is nothing else, no surprise, no mixing it up, getting behind the oppo, getting to the byeline and cutting it back, no interplay with midfield. It's just lump it in, hit and hope, totally predicable and It's shite.

That wasn’t my point at all. I’m with you on that, however not all crosses are ‘aimless’. Some genuinely cause concern to the opposition because of the area they are played into. Keeper in two minds, CB’s risking an own goal become they’re unsure of who’s around them. Come on mate, you see it all the time. It’s not hit and hope every time. How many goals have we scored this season from out wide as opposed to playing through the middle? I don’t know, but I’d think the former outweighs the latter.

Anyway this has got off track. My point was that Trippier didn’t have a bad game last night, and he certainly wasn’t shit - you disagree - that’s fine. Still love ya Guido.
 
leaving his crossing for a moment, I think the passes he plays outside the full back into the inside forward runs of dele, son, eriksen etc are superb and another facet of his delivery.
 
That wasn’t my point at all. I’m with you on that, however not all crosses are ‘aimless’. Some genuinely cause concern to the opposition because of the area they are played into. Keeper in two minds, CB’s risking an own goal become they’re unsure of who’s around them. Come on mate, you see it all the time. It’s not hit and hope every time. How many goals have we scored this season from out wide as opposed to playing through the middle? I don’t know, but I’d think the former outweighs the latter.

Anyway this has got off track. My point was that Trippier didn’t have a bad game last night, and he certainly wasn’t shit - you disagree - that’s fine. Still love ya Guido.
Likewise fella. Genuinely don't mind the debate when it's debated. You sammyspurs sammyspurs and Jurgen's Binnman Jurgen's Binnman all detailing your position, as it should be. I haven't had my mind changed with the counters, but will hopefully be open to it if argument presented itself. (Yes, freely admit also I have confirmation bias with Tripps, I struggle to praise him, but feel if I can praise Sissoko to the point of defending him, there is hope for me yet).
 
leaving his crossing for a moment, I think the passes he plays outside the full back into the inside forward runs of dele, son, eriksen etc are superb and another facet of his delivery.
Agreed, like these and if memory serves he has had better effect with England than with Spurs for this ball? For us I feel the ball just gets returned to him just be crossed.......
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Fine. But what problems are you referring to exactly? The spilled keeper cross was a keeper error, nothing to do with a fantastic too hot to handle cross, the assist for Kane was a rolled 8yrd pass to a player standing still unmarked in the box. So other than these two moments what problems and chances?

Barring in mind that they created more chances than us all from his area of the pitch.
Regardless of circumstance, he still created two goals, no matter how scrappy. Anyway, can’t really remember details, I just remember feeling that we sent a lot of play down his wing and that he was getting about a lot and trying to create chances. I felt he put in one of the bigger efforts last night.
 
No, just think is shit and expressing that opinion.

Do you have one?

I have two.

1. Trippier played a very good game last night, and he does produce more than our previous right back in terms of goals, assists and chances per 90. His crossing and passing is smarter and more creative than that of Rose and Walker and every other right back in the league The only one creating more per 90 than Trippier is Davies. They both create substantially more than did Rose and Walker last year, when the latter were playing as wing backs in 3-4-2-1. Trippier isn't even close to Walker defensively, but he does offer far more going forwards.

Imo there were three main reasons for him being targeted last night: They needed to try to pin him down to stop the threat he posed; We set up with a more attacking right side than left side, with the left having a clear winger whereas on the right Eriksen moved more towards the middle; and Richarlison likes to hug the left, afaik, and is their main attacking outlet.

2. I respect you as a poster, but your stance (as I understand it from your posts) on crossing is extreme and imo wrong, and you carry prejudice against Trippier.
 
I have two.

1. Trippier played a very good game last night, and he does produce more than our previous right back in terms of goals, assists and chances per 90. His crossing and passing is smarter and more creative than that of Rose and Walker and every other right back in the league The only one creating more per 90 than Trippier is Davies. They both create substantially more than did Rose and Walker last year, when the latter were playing as wing backs in 3-4-2-1. Trippier isn't even close to Walker defensively, but he does offer far more going forwards.

Thanks for posting always good to get detailed opposing analysis, this is what it's all about.

I've laid out and detailed my reasons, I will not keep repeating them as it's a tad boring for others. BUT I will address your first point above, really sorry to say this but your mad (hope you take that in a lighthearted way it's intended) to go with the stats (two of his assists have been throw-ins!!) Almost all of them have come against Watford, ergo doesn't do this against other teams, so take out games against Watford and he's numbers are shocking. Now I know in the real world you can't just ignore what has happened, it's like hitting cheat mode on a computer game, so I'm not trying to rewrite history just so my position looks stronger, all I'm going to do is ask you to take that into consideration. If his numbers are what you are going by, just take out the games he's played against Watford and ask yourself what do they look like now, do you have the same view of him? (He's delivered 112 crosses in the PL this season, not sure if that includes the 101 he delivered last night, and has got 2 assists as a result, that ain't good in the cold light of day by any means that's 1.75% success rate).

Walker is the best RB in the league, there isn't even a close challenger to him, can't think of a single player. He actually is deployed as an orthodox RB for City, often the furthest back, he is their Sanchez so to speak, the defender that's got pace and can use it to cover the ball over the top and to break up counter attacks, so it's comparing him with Tripps is not like for like. For us Walker was simply brilliant, it was completely clear why he lost his place, he wanted out, wasn't committed and onboard. The spin on Trips being the better player was embarrassing, not sure how this got out their but like most things get enough people to repeat it they believe it. Honestly, do you think that City would let Trips go for £4m then buy Walker for a world record fee if there was any truth. Where are the bids for +£50m for Trips? Why aren't all the big clubs in a tapping up frenzy for him? All our good players are linked to top sides for a very good reason, they are good. Trips unfortunately isn't linked to anyone.

Yes, I do have conformation bias, I openly admit that, but he has done nothing to help me change my opinion.
 
Trippier had good game last night. It is outrageous to claim that "ah, it was 8 yard pass to unmarked Kane". What is an acceptable assist to some? Do you have to out-dribble 3 oppo players and then put in rabona cross to goal line where striker taps it in?

The solid fact is that Trippier was in correct place (!!), made a correct decision (!!) and executed it as it was needed (!!). Something might have gone wrong in ALL of 3 such points. He got them right, he got an assist and that is that. Regarding other situation, yes, it was goalkeeping error, but very many of the goals a team scores in football match is to some extent other sides mistake. But situations have to be created to call forward such mistakes! Tripps did it, and deserves at least some credit for that as well! It is so clearly biased trying to take anything away from those situations that granted us the victory. It is at least polite to admit having agenda at that. I give you that much.

I also do not accept the point that he was as sh*t in defence as Guido tries to make him out to be. While 1-on-1 he won quite a few situations. And he played good passes out from under the pressure. At some points, I agree, he was not in correct positions and gave Watford players too much room, but one should consider the fact that he had to play against the 2 most dangerous players of Watford side + our general pressing game today was not good enough meaning those two players had more room then they should have in normal circumstance.
 
Think he’s our best right back on balance at present but would be the one I’d shift if the 3. Think he’s at his peak and below top drawer whereas the other 2 have the potential to be much better
 
I have two.

1. Trippier played a very good game last night, and he does produce more than our previous right back in terms of goals, assists and chances per 90. His crossing and passing is smarter and more creative than that of Rose and Walker and every other right back in the league The only one creating more per 90 than Trippier is Davies. They both create substantially more than did Rose and Walker last year, when the latter were playing as wing backs in 3-4-2-1. .
Simple Question. Why do you think Man City , widely regarded as the best team in England, with the most money, and arguably the best manager in world football, targeted Walker and not Trippier last summer. I'm not being a cunt, but I just find it bizarre that some fans genuinely think we upgraded when making Tripps first choice. The same people will be saying Sanchez is an upgrade on Toby next season. It's fucking delusional
 
Simple Question. Why do you think Man City , widely regarded as the best team in England, with the most money, and arguably the best manager in world football, targeted Walker and not Trippier last summer. I'm not being a cunt, but I just find it bizarre that some fans genuinely think we upgraded when making Tripps first choice. The same people will be saying Sanchez is an upgrade on Toby next season. It's fucking delusional

I believe City bought a player we couldn't realistically retain. I was probably one of Walker's biggest fans (before he wanted out, when a player wants out I want him to fuck off), and still think he's overall the better right back of the two. He's majestic in 1v1 situations and certainly more athletic than Trippier. However, Trippier IS better when it comes to offensive end product. Trippier IS smarter on the ball, plays great, creative passes and crosses, and creates significantly more than Walker. Trippier has also shown in many games that he is capable of handling threats defensively, such as against RM.

I strongly disagree when people say that Trippier is shit, simply because he is quite good. He isn't Walker, but he is one of the better RBs in the league, and certainly the most creative one.

You mention Sanchez that you find to be significantly worse than Toby. Do you also consider, when judging Trippier, that he doesn't have the luxury of playing next to Toby? Nor does he get played, usually, with Sissoko ahead of him, as Aurier does. Trippier is often left to handle his own shit to a greater extent than our other right backs have over the past few seasons. He still does quite good.

Sanchez isn't consistently as good as Toby was at his best. He may never have Toby's organizational skills. But he looks a fantastic prospect. Potentially the best CB in the fucking Universe in a few years. He isn't Toby, but a great replacement for a guy struggling with injuries who seems to want out.
 
I've been frustrated by him at times but our play has changed in recent years – can't remember the last goal from a fast break. We used to bag a few of these a season and it would usually involve the right back blasting down the wing. Our build up play is laboured at times which means he plays ping-pong half the time and runs into congested areas... If his speed an intelligence was matched by breaking players he would reap huge praise.

I feel we're quite one dimensional at times.
 
He's catching up with Walker on assists this season!
Both him and Davies have surprisingly very impressive stats compared to most FBs accross EU. Another proof that stats never really tell the whole picture

When Commoli was still working for us he was once asked who's the best CB in the league purely based on stats, he answered Liam Ridgewell of Birmingham City. He was statistically better than Rio, Vidic, Terry, Calvalho, Carragher, King etc:dawsonlol:
 
Simple Question. Why do you think Man City , widely regarded as the best team in England, with the most money, and arguably the best manager in world football, targeted Walker and not Trippier last summer. I'm not being a cunt, but I just find it bizarre that some fans genuinely think we upgraded when making Tripps first choice. The same people will be saying Sanchez is an upgrade on Toby next season. It's fucking delusional

They targted Walker because he was first the first choice RB in the team with least goals conceded and they needed a RB. Had Trippier played the previous two seasons, they would have bought him.

City's scouting isnt rocket science. Its basically "they have a good player lets buy him"

Do you genuinely believe Walker will be first choice within the next two years
 
Defensively wise the only difference between walker and trippier was walkers pace to get out of trouble.

Crossing wise trippier is far better than walker, but it's all academic now.

At the moment trippier is streets ahead of aurier, who at the moment is an accident waiting to happen.

Maybe a pre season with poch will help aurier become the player he can be?
 
Thanks for posting always good to get detailed opposing analysis, this is what it's all about.

I've laid out and detailed my reasons, I will not keep repeating them as it's a tad boring for others. BUT I will address your first point above, really sorry to say this but your mad (hope you take that in a lighthearted way it's intended) to go with the stats (two of his assists have been throw-ins!!) Almost all of them have come against Watford, ergo doesn't do this against other teams, so take out games against Watford and he's numbers are shocking. Now I know in the real world you can't just ignore what has happened, it's like hitting cheat mode on a computer game, so I'm not trying to rewrite history just so my position looks stronger, all I'm going to do is ask you to take that into consideration. If his numbers are what you are going by, just take out the games he's played against Watford and ask yourself what do they look like now, do you have the same view of him? (He's delivered 112 crosses in the PL this season, not sure if that includes the 101 he delivered last night, and has got 2 assists as a result, that ain't good in the cold light of day by any means that's 1.75% success rate).

Walker is the best RB in the league, there isn't even a close challenger to him, can't think of a single player. He actually is deployed as an orthodox RB for City, often the furthest back, he is their Sanchez so to speak, the defender that's got pace and can use it to cover the ball over the top and to break up counter attacks, so it's comparing him with Tripps is not like for like. For us Walker was simply brilliant, it was completely clear why he lost his place, he wanted out, wasn't committed and onboard. The spin on Trips being the better player was embarrassing, not sure how this got out their but like most things get enough people to repeat it they believe it. Honestly, do you think that City would let Trips go for £4m then buy Walker for a world record fee if there was any truth. Where are the bids for +£50m for Trips? Why aren't all the big clubs in a tapping up frenzy for him? All our good players are linked to top sides for a very good reason, they are good. Trips unfortunately isn't linked to anyone.

Yes, I do have conformation bias, I openly admit that, but he has done nothing to help me change my opinion.

I agree that purely looking at assists might be misleading, as a simple two-yard sideways pass 80 yards from the opponent's goals can be an assist. However, he consistently produce more than did our previous backs, and he's got the chances-created numbers to back up his assists. Crosses may not often lead to direct assists, but they may create chaos at the back, they may pull defenders out, they may create corners, and they may create situations leading to goals. If a wide player never crosses, why would the defense even bother moving out to put pressure on him? They could place 11 players in their own box.

What's the percentage of dribbles or take-ons leading directly to goals, or forward passes? Pretty low, I assume. Yet I bet few would argue that we should play less forward passes, or that Son or Dembele should stop dribbling? It's all part of an offensive repertoir making us hard to face, leading to our goal scoring.
 
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