Let's Be Brutally Honest - Our Matchday Squad is No Longer Top 6 Quality

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Are We Still Top 6 Quality?

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tommyboyspurs said:
we are nowhere near man utd and Chelsea. except for son and kane they are better man for man
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Chelsea's lineup in their most recent 3-0 win against Watford, compared to our last lineup:
Kepa vs Lloris
James vs Aurier
Zouma vs Sanchez
Christensen vs Dier
Azpilicueta vs Davies
Barkley vs Lo Celso
Kanté vs Sissoko
Mount vs Bergwijn
Willian vs Moura
Giroud vs Kane
Pulisic vs Son

Player by player they are certainly not better. But their team is MUCH better balanced than the team Mourinho fielded.

Man Utd might be slightly better player by player now with Fernandes (which we shouldve fucking got), if Pogba and de Gea are actually trying again. But mainly, they've got confidence, offensive attitude and a lineup that is better balanced than ours at the moment.
 
Igula said:
They are letting him go on a free transfer because of his age and the fact that they are upgrading the spot. I know that is likely hard to understand for us Spurs fans but it certainly doesn't mean he is shit.

If they (or anyone else) had to choose between Willian and Moura it is Willian 100 times out of 100.

They are 12 points ahead of us in the table because of how much better their squad is not because of a masterclass of tactics from Fat Frank.
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Last season we finished one point behind them in the league, we reached the CL final. Since then we lost Eriksen who was shit that season, they lost Hazard, their by far best player. We spent cash strengthening, they haven't been able to spend shit. The season before that, we finished 7 points ahead of them in the league. When did their squad suddenly turn so much better than ours?

They are performing better than us at the moment, but not because their squad is a lot better than ours.
 
Airfixx said:
Of course..... Right now is a disconcerting place to be.

Thoughts...?

You're conflating a number of issues that don't sit conveniently under the simplistic banner of "Levy is a tight cunt"... Particularly where it comes to claims of "no attemp" to replace X or Y player when in fact attempts HAVE been made (often costly); just not successfully for varying reason.

From your list:

Dembele - Ndombele £55m +
Toby and Verts - Sanchez & Foyth = total £50m; brought in young to be developed for the juncture we find ourselves at now.
Eriksen - GLC 45m +
Walker - Aurier 25m
Rose- Sessengon 33m
Wanyama - 100% valid... We should have a new DM by now!

Point being that's £200m spent on those positions!!! ...And of course there has been even more spent elsewhere in these last 4 summers since our much fabled 16/17 season.

Could/should we spend more....? That argument will rage and rage to no eventual resolution(*).... Fucking United fans till bitch and moan about their spending FFS! (*Personally, I only lose patience with it when hysterical falsified claims of the theft and cash siphoning are made.)

If C19 brings about a period of "austerity" as you choose to call it, then I'm not sure it warrants us stomping our feet over it.... It will affect all but the richest of clubs! It's a shitty kick in the teeth given the purpose of our stadium rebuild; we can only hope that things don't get as bad as we fear.

What will the aforementioned £200m loan be used for? I suspect it is to provide a buffer for our loan repayments and operational cost whilst also being used to ensure that we have SOME form of transfer budget this summer.... If I'm wrong, then let's cross that bridge when we come to it. Vitriolic pre-emptive criticism serves no practical purpose in the interim.

In terms of ENIC '"accountability": They are OWNERS; they aren't getting 'sacked'. If some are as embittered about them as they repeatedly portray here then we really ought to have seen some form of pro-active action from them by now.... To be a internet blow-hard on this front ultimately is not gonna cut it and makes a mockery of the aggression with which their disenfranchisement is constantly expressed. We all laughed at the "Wenger Out" movement for being melts, but at least they were more than just mouth.

In the interests of moving forward;

Money has been spent (in some instances large, record-breaking fees), but very little of it has impacted as we needed. Player integration has been questionable with certain players were clung to for too long at management level, but most importantly we need to invest time and money into our recruitment department. A coherent strategy, scouting-to-purchasing process (ideally headed up by a DOF is required.... A failure to do so will lead to me losing my rag with the ownership because it IS their responsibility to see that this is in place.

If we can recruit well and smartly where it matters most in the next 2 windows; i don't think we're doomed to the shit fate that the most fearful amongst us do, but that's an IF.


(Hopefully my reply can be seen as a practical, un-emotional view of our predicament; rather than be framed by a childish few as rallying behind Levy; but I don't hold a great deal of hope on that front....)

COYS.
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Top post

My thoughts exactly.

The only Caveat I will put in is that Poch did not want a DOF and Levy went along with it. We got this bullshit transfer committee instead.
 
tbonepremier said:
I disagree. Player for player we are significantly inferior to Liverpool and City, on par with Chelsea and Man United, and above all other teams. The squad may suffer from imbalance, but mostly our problems is down to poor form, injuries, and, most importantly, a lack of a clear and established style of play, energy and confidence.
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Chelsea and United are hands down better than us right now.

Forwards are comparable, and they're significantly better than us in midfield and on defence.

We're comparable to Woolwich. Both are good in attack, but have major issues in midfield and at the back.
 
ArcspacE said:
With the exception of Zouma - any of the their back 4 would currently improve us
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I maintain there's very little in it but still; I'm sure the purpose of this thread isn't to play top trumps with me about who's got the best players...

'What next?' is a the forefront of my thoughts after considering your OP.
 
Totti said:
On paper, I don't actually think our squad is bad.

Lloris is still a brilliant goalkeeper and saves us a lot more points than he loses. The fans do tend to go through phases of "Lloris is shit" to "What a goalkeeper" though so don't let that skew your judgement

Defence is obviously our weakest area.

But midfield we have Ndombele, Lo Celso, Dele, Bergwijn, Son which is a great selection of talent, you then have Lucas and Lamela, who aren't truly good enough to start week in and week out but both have proven to be able to change games at times when they do come off the bench. That's without even mentioning Winks and Sissoko who again, provide decent depth and can be useful in certain games.

Kane as our only attacker is a problem of course, but you'd argue we had a top 6 squad when we finished 3rd in 15/16 and Kane was our only attacker then too.

It obviously has areas it needs improving:

RB, CB, LB and DM most importantly as we have failed to really replace what Walker, Rose and Wanyama meant to us - I do think the loss of the aggressive full backs and a defensive midfielder has hindered our centre backs but we still haven't really replaced Vertonghen and that left sided area, whereas I think Dier/Sanchez/Tanganga could quite easily fill in at right sided centre back WITH the right partner on the left.

It's definitely top 6 material.

But it needs significant improvement as well as great coaching and a system that compliments every single player if we are to be that challenging team again that was hard to beat and feared before a ball was even kicked.

Lloris
RB - Dier* - CB - LB
Lo Celso - DM - Ndombele
Bergwijn - Kane - Son​
* Dier/Sanchez/Tanganga

Of those listed, that is a highly talented squad with players who only want to move forward with the ball and aim to play great football. Getting the right players in however has never been an easy thing to do for Tottenham and how soon can we really get 4 new players, especially in the defensive third, working together and forming a cohesive unit?

Not really sure where someone like Dele fits in to that system however, though if it came to it, I wouldn't be against selling Dele if the price is right and bringing in a monstrous DM like Partey from Atletico Madrid for what would likely be a similar fee. (I believe he has a release clause)
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Good post. The only additional point I’d make is that I haven’t given up on Toby yet. It’s too easy when a player has a bad patch and they’re over 30 to say they’re done, but it isn’t always the case. It can just be a bad patch.

Gary Cahill looks excellent at Palace this season after being written off by Chelsea as “shot“ a year ago.

Injury has precluded it, but I would have really enjoyed a run with Toby and Tango CB, with Japhet being able to learn from easily the most intelligent defender at the club.

I guess without even adequate DCM protection in front, our defence is always overly exposed though.

Look how good Morgan and Huth looked with Kante in front!
 
GDG said:
I don’t really no. I think they can both be better in the right system and with the correct players around them (look how good Matip looks with VVD next to him, how good Wimmer looked playing in our excellent team) but I don’t rate either highly individually.

With Sanchez he’s just so poor on the ball it’s always going to be an issue. I’m more nervous when he has the ball under pressure than I am when he’s faced with a one on one. I haven’t seen any real development in that side of him since he arrived.
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Again, that'll be down to highlighting Sanchez's strengths and eliminating his weaknesses - we know he is weakest on the ball out of all of our centre backs, but a competent DM in there who has the ability to take the ball off our defenders, beat the press and get it forward would almost entirely eliminate that - whereas right now, Sanchez is having to actually try and bypass that part of the pitch with his passing.

I've only really noticed Sanchez's passing get blasted over the last two seasons when Dembele and/or Wanyama's performances got less and less - they were both excellent at taking the ball from defence and distributing it further up field.
 
I think the one thing that we miss most from Toby not being in the side is his vision and long passes. His ability to pick a pass and play a ball out wide or up the field to break open a play is something that nobody else in our defense is even close to being able to replicate.
 
Don’t agree. We have players who are capable of getting into most teams across Europe. We just need a couple of additions and a mentality change.

Kane, Son, Lo Celso, Ndombele all get into most teams. Bergwijn, Lucas, Sanchez, Lloris are good enough as well.

Players don’t become crap overnight. We just need a slight change in direction.
 
jrober38 said:
He's the best passer but the rest of his game isn't there anymore. Not a threat in the air, doesn't run well, can't defend one on one anymore against pace.

None of our centre backs are good. Arguing over who is the best seems like a useless experiment because ultimately we need two new ones who are much better than anything we currently have.

All of them are just so limited. Sanchez is probably the best one on one defender on the team, but he can't pass and is prone to being out of position and not reading the game well. Jan's legs are gone and he's not a threat in the air anymore. Dier doesn't do anything well.

Being completely serious, Tanganga is the only one I think has a future past the next 2 years. He's athletic, can run, decent with the ball at his feet and he can work on his passing. He needs experience badly, but he looked good in the opportunities he was given.

The rest belong in the scrap heap.
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You might be right, albeit I’m not ready to give up on Toby yet. Either way, I think Tanganga‘s progress is best aided in the short term by playing with clever defenders like Toby.

I guess irrelevant bearing in mind the injury, but would have been nice to see them as a pair get a run earlier in the season.
 
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