Let's Be Brutally Honest - Our Matchday Squad is No Longer Top 6 Quality

Are We Still Top 6 Quality?


  • Total voters
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With only a few personnel changes and the correct tactics and attitude we could be vastly better than we are at present.

The difference a genuine top class DM would make, not Hojberg, would be all too apparent.

A backline protected by say Barrios with Skipp or Winks alongside would be totally different to what we have currently, even if the personnel stayed the same.

A 4-2-3-1 or 4-1-3-2 formation would be well suited.
 
Of course..... Right now is a disconcerting place to be.

Thoughts...?

You're conflating a number of issues that don't sit conveniently under the simplistic banner of "Levy is a tight cunt"... Particularly where it comes to claims of "no attempt" to replace X or Y player when in fact attempts HAVE been made (often costly); just not successfully for varying reasons.

From your list:

Dembele - Ndombele £55m +
Toby and Verts - Sanchez & Foyth = total £50m; brought in young to be developed for the juncture we find ourselves at now.
Eriksen - GLC 45m +
Walker - Aurier 25m
Rose- Sessengon 30m
Wanyama - 100% valid... We should have a new DM by now!

Point being that's £200m spent on those positions!!! ...And of course there has been even more spent elsewhere in these last 4 summers since our much fabled 16/17 season.

Could/should we spend more....? That argument will rage and rage to no eventual resolution(*).... United fans till bitch and moan about their spending FFS! (*Personally, I only lose patience with it when hysterical falsified claims of theft and cash siphoning are made.)

If C19 brings about a period of "austerity" as you choose to call it, then I'm not sure it warrants us stomping our feet over it.... It will affect all but the richest of clubs! It's a shitty kick in the teeth given the purpose of our stadium rebuild; we can only hope that things don't get as bad as we fear.

What will the aforementioned £200m loan be used for? I suspect it is to provide a buffer for our loan repayments and operational costs whilst also being used to ensure that we have SOME form of transfer budget this summer.... If I'm wrong, then let's cross that bridge when we come to it. Vitriolic pre-emptive criticism serves no practical purpose in the interim.

In terms of ENIC '"accountability": They are OWNERS; they aren't getting 'sacked'. If some are as embittered about them as they repeatedly portray here then we really ought to have seen some form of pro-active action from them by now.... To be an internet blow-hard on this front ultimately is not gonna cut it and makes a mockery of the aggression with which their disenfranchisement is constantly expressed. We all laughed at the "Wenger Out" movement for being melts, but at least they were more than just mouth.

In the interests of moving forward;

Money has been spent (in some instances large, record-breaking fees), but very little of it has impacted as we needed. Player integration has been questionable with certain players clung to for too long at management level, but most importantly we need to invest time and money into our recruitment department. A coherent strategy & scouting-to-purchasing process (ideally headed up by a DOF) is required.... A failure to do so will lead to me losing my rag with the ownership because it IS their responsibility to see that this is in place.

If we can recruit well and smartly where it matters most in the next 2 windows; i don't think we're doomed to the shit fate that the most fearful amongst us do, but that's an IF.


(Hopefully my reply can be seen as a practical, un-emotional view of our predicament; rather than be framed by a childish few as rallying behind Levy; but I don't hold a great deal of hope on that front....)

COYS.


Spot on mate baring the DM and backup striker position (why the fuck didn't we replace Llorente?)

We have actually spent money issue is our scouting for a long time seems to be utter turd especially when it has come to signing defensive minded players.

Sanchez is the only defender we have bought since the first Poch days that's even been close to good enough and even he is questionable.

But overall for every player we sold we replaced him with someone inferior for the past 3 years? Hardly then surprising we have regressed
 
Having failed to improve the squad at the end of our best season in 2017 - it has been a steady decline into Top 8 mediocrity ever since.

Poch foresaw this, even went public begging Levy to invest but instead we went from the youngest PL team to one of the oldest.

Out of the Top 6 at the time - we are the only club that failed to win even even a shitty League Cup with what was the second/third best team for a solid 3 seasons running. Even a clapped Wenger on his last legs, clown LVG and the shittest Utd team in a generation won major trophies during that same period. Inexcusable really

This is the sad reality following years of mismanagement by ENIC and criminally poor decisions in the transfer market without any sort of accountability from those involved. Combined with ruined deals for the naming rights and sleeve sponsor, along with extra 200m extra loan - we now seem primed for a period of soul-crushing austerity.

So what gives?

From our best team:

Dembele - not replaced
Toby and Verts - best CB duo have now aged - not replaced with true quality
Eriksen - sold and potentially replaced - time will tell
Walker - sold and replaced with a clown
Rose- aged and not replaced
Wanyama - sold and not replaced

From the current squad:

Aurier- not good enough
Sissoko - not good enough
Moura - inconsistent
Lamela - inconsistent
Davies - not good enough
Dier - finished
Sanchez - not sure
Winks- squad player
Gedson - lol
Bergwijn - some promise
Ndombele - some promise
Lo Celso - some promise

As per above it seems a major core of our squad is simply not good enough for Top 4 better yet Top 6

Unless we perform a MAJOR overhaul this summer next season won't be much different even if we sack Jose. Question is - with what money and who will buy half these cloggers?

You can't polish a turd, Mr Levy

Thoughts?
Good post actually......one of your best.
Gold star son.

I genuinely think we are shit.
Bored shitless and done defending any of them.

Id literally keep Kane and sack the rest of the entire club.
 

ErikLamela'sHip

RIP Cheeseroom, 2016-18
In the interests of moving forward;

Money has been spent (in some instances large, record-breaking fees), but very little of it has impacted as we needed. Player integration has been questionable with certain players clung to for too long at management level, but most importantly we need to invest time and money into our recruitment department. A coherent strategy & scouting-to-purchasing process (ideally headed up by a DOF) is required.... A failure to do so will lead to me losing my rag with the ownership because it IS their responsibility to see that this is in place.

If we can recruit well and smartly where it matters most in the next 2 windows; i don't think we're doomed to the shit fate that the most fearful amongst us do, but that's an IF.


(Hopefully my reply can be seen as a practical, un-emotional view of our predicament; rather than be framed by a childish few as rallying behind Levy; but I don't hold a great deal of hope on that front....)

COYS.

Completely agree. And - to edit - I'm not particularly pro or anti-Levy. I think he delivered superbly with the stadium but our recruitment and strategy are messed up, and he is partially culpable for that one. So jury out for me, not that it matters.
 

Bazali

😇
Good post actually......one of your best.
Gold star son.

I genuinely think we are shit.
Bored shitless and done defending any of them.

Id literally keep Kane and sack the rest of the entire club.

Honestly I can’t disagree with that

On thehour mark last night I said to Mrs B why am I watching this shit?
Because you always do was the reply shaking her head!!
 

Fattynomates

Supporter
Formerly Known As Fatty1mate
we need a whole new medical team to
Compete, it doesn’t matter who we sign as they will
Just end up
Injured any way , maybe I’m wrong but I don’t remember any other team having as bad luck with injuries as we do? Surely it’s not coincidence
 

Airfixx

[Cherub] #TeamHebzebenese
would've been better with levy face then dooku



"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine"
 
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Just going back to the DOF.

Yes Levy is pro-DOF. I am not really a fan of the DOF system. It requires a lot of investment in terms of time and money. Most players that are bought will be misses and the odd one will be a hit. Most of our recent years of success have been without a DOF. Redknapp and Poch did not want DOF and we had our best years under them. You could argue Jol/Arnesen was an exception to the rule.

I also think the terminology of a DOF and a Head Scout needs clarification. But essentially they do the same job. All we need is a Head Scout and a couple of understudies that see eye-to-eye with the Manager and what his style of play is.

We also need Levy to stay out of these conversations. If he wants to get involved then he can do the haggling with the price tag. But his effectiveness in this has waned as other chairmen and owners have wised up to his tactics of lowballing and want to get one over on Levy but not budging and playing hardball themselves. Sissoko transfer was a great example of this. Just to appease a few people, we spent £30 million on a mediocre player that Poch didn't want and it was pushed through in the dying minutes - desperation signing.
Just fucked off with the poor planning and leaving everything last minute.

I liken this situation to Dominic Cummings interfering with SAGE business. Just leave the football people to the football scouting, the business to Levy, SAGE to the scientists and Barnard Castle to Cummings. :mourglasses: (eye test anyone?)
 

Airfixx

[Cherub] #TeamHebzebenese
Just going back to the DOF.

Yes Levy is pro-DOF. I am not really a fan of the DOF system. It requires a lot of investment in terms of time and money. Most players that are bought will be misses and the odd one will be a hit. Most of our recent years of success have been without a DOF. Redknapp and Poch did not want DOF and we had our best years under them. You could argue Jol/Arnesen was an exception to the rule.

I also think the terminology of a DOF and a Head Scout needs clarification. But essentially they do the same job. All we need is a Head Scout and a couple of understudies that see eye-to-eye with the Manager and what his style of play is.

We also need Levy to stay out of these conversations. If he wants to get involved then he can do the haggling with the price tag. But his effectiveness in this has waned as other chairmen and owners have wised up to his tactics of lowballing and want to get one over on Levy but not budging and playing hardball themselves. Sissoko transfer was a great example of this. Just to appease a few people, we spent £30 million on a mediocre player that Poch didn't want and it was pushed through in the dying minutes - desperation signing.
Just fucked off with the poor planning and leaving everything last minute.

I liken this situation to Dominic Cummings interfering with SAGE business. Just leave the football people to the football scouting, the business to Levy, SAGE to the scientists and Barnard Castle to Cummings. :mourglasses: (eye test anyone?)

Most of the players that were central to both's success were already here though (be it in the senior squad or the academy).

One of the key benefits of a DOF is that their is a broader focus as to what kind of players (and indeed managers) the club needs to adhere to it's overall footballing philosophy so that the transition between players and managers should be smoother and require less of a re-boot culture all the time. They're more than just a "head scout" as you suggest.... They essentially oversee the footballing identity of the club.

Like him or not, you'd have to wonder if we'd have hired Jose if we had a DOF in our ranks last year....?

Levy's negotiating skills have waned? ....Nah, we got GLC & Ndombele for a joined 100m when they each had 80m asking prices.

Sissoko: Constantly mentioned, yet never evidenced beyond than "yeh, but Poch wanted Mane"... Show me something which validates the claim that Poch "didn't want" Sissoko.
 
Most of the players that were central to both's success were already here though (be it in the senior squad or the academy).

One of the key benefits of a DOF is that their is a broader focus as to what kind of players (and indeed managers) the club needs to adhere to it's overall footballing philosophy so that the transition between players and managers should be smoother and require less of a re-boot culture all the time. They're more than just a "head scout" as you suggest.... They essentially oversee the footballing identity of the club.

Like him or not, you'd have to wonder if we'd have hired Jose if we had a DOF in our ranks last year....?

Levy's negotiating skills have waned? ....Nah, we got GLC & Ndombele for a joined 100m when they each had 80m asking prices.

Sissoko: Constantly mentioned, yet never evidenced beyond than "yeh, but Poch wanted Mane"... Show me something which validates the claim that Poch "didn't want" Sissoko.
I dont think Poch will come out and say he doesn't want a player. But he did want Wijnaldum and got Sissoko instead.

I dont think JM is the kind of manager with a long term plan that warrants the DOF system.
 

Airfixx

[Cherub] #TeamHebzebenese
I dont think Poch will come out and say he doesn't want a player.

Not publicly, no.

But in private when being consulted about the signing of a player? 100% yes.

But he did want Wijnaldum and got Sissoko instead.

I'll ask again....

In any way shape or form can you credibly substantiate the repeated claim that Poch "didn't want" Sissoko.....?

I dont think JM is the kind of manager with a long term plan that warrants the DOF system.

You're missing the point about Jose; a DOF would sit above a manager in terms of the footballing hierarchy.... If we had one; one would suspect we wouldn't have hired a manager with a distinctly different outlook on the game to the last.
 
Not publicly, no.

But in private when being consulted about the signing of a player? 100% yes.



I'll ask again....

In any way shape or form can you credibly substantiate the repeated claim that Poch "didn't want" Sissoko.....?



You're missing the point about Jose; a DOF would sit above a manager in terms of the footballing hierarchy.... If we had one; one would suspect we wouldn't have hired a manager with a distinctly different outlook on the game to the last.
Impossible to provide that evidence, unless you get Poch to say it himself.

I get the point that a DOF sits above the manager. But JM isn't a man who will take orders from a DOF.

Hypothetically, if we got a DOF who would you get? Everyone talks about this Campos guy. I've never heard of him before we got Mourinho.
 

Airfixx

[Cherub] #TeamHebzebenese
Impossible to provide that evidence, unless you get Poch to say it himself.

I understand that.... I don't expect cast iron evidence (hense I'm deliberately not using the word), just something more than "grrr Levy".... Let it go if you like; I don't wish to over-ride the point.

I get the point that a DOF sits above the manager. But JM isn't a man who will take orders from a DOF.

It's not so much about taking orders from as it is working with..... A DOF isn't going to typically recruit a manager that doesn't share a similar vision to begin with. Pretty sure he's worked with DOFs at times in the past.... Certainly at Chavski and likely RM.

Hypothetically, if we got a DOF who would you get? Everyone talks about this Campos guy. I've never heard of him before we got Mourinho.

Sorry fella, I don't know enough about the rest of Europe's clubs to have a suggestion.... I'm just keen strategically speaking.
 
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