Levy / ENIC

  • The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Edit - thanks to the person who correctly pointed out ENIC haven't actually taken any dividends in 10 years. I hate to say it but Tottenham is a very well run and self sufficient business.

I'm an accountant and can shed some light on transfer fees and what they really mean.

A player is an asset. To be precise, an intangible asset because the item that makes a human being who is a player technically an asset by accounting standards as opposed to your regular joe is the way their contract is written - it allows the criteria of useful economic life and others to be met and so the contract is what the club is actually buying. When you purchase an asset you recognise what you paid for it on the Balance Sheet as an Asset. This DOES NOT show on your profit and loss (which is where net profit is). From an accounting perspective it's just moving money around the balance sheet - you shift value from one asset (cash) to another (intangible assets). Don't get confused here by the term contract, even if the salary of the player over a 5 year contract is £10m a year, if you pay £100m you capitalise £100m. The wages and salaries will come through later as costs on the profit on loss and are independent of the capitalised intangible asset - remember, the whole value to the club of the contract is it ties the player to the club for the duration (i.e. has genuine value with measurable economic benefit, hence an asset in laymans terms) and the club has valued that at whatever they paid for it hence that's assumed to be fair value paid for the intangible right to hold the player for that period. The wages and salaries will be executed under a personal services contract (generally, some cases may be simple employer/ee relationship but becoming less common albeit IR35 could bring it back into vogue) which is a separate agreement and similar to what average joes have - therefore, the wages will hit the P and L as costs under whatever is agreed in the services contract which is not the same as the capitalised contract (right to own) which is an asset. Note, the club has a duty to recognise fair value for all assets just like any company and so annual revaluations based on market are permitted. Any change to value is recognised by debiting (increase) or crediting (decrease) the asset and the same amount is then recognised in a revluation reserve which is in the equity section of the balance sheet and conveniently for owners is defined as part of distributable reserves and can therefore be paid out directly to owners as a dividend.

Assets must be depreciated over their "useful economic life". For intangible football contracts that's really easy, it's whatever the term is. Every year, the value paid at the beginning (purchase value) is reduced straight line over the UEL until it's worth nothing. i.e.if I have a 5 year contract then in year 1, I have £100m on my balance sheet for the player, year 2, I reduce this 20% (5 years) so it's now worth £80m on the balance sheet. Worth £20m in year 5, and zero by end of year 5. Where does the depreciation expense (the 20% go)? It goes on the P and L as a cost - yes guys, accounting is weird, that made up number really is an accounting cost and it reduces your net profit each year until end of Year 5 (fully depreciated). The value of the asset net of depreciation in any one year is called the Net Book Value. The really interesting thing about this, is if after 5 years the player recontracts - well, there is no transfer fee involved so, apart from signing on fees and agents fees that can be capitalised, nothing else is there to be capitalised. So thereafter, the player's Net Book Value is close to zero or at most very low (even at a generous agent/signing on fee, unless a Raiola player). This means, bids that the media may call a bargain may actually be decent whack. Example below

Say a player is bought for $60m on a 5 year deal. By Year 4 the NBV is $12m (depreciated 5 years). Bid comes in $15m - that's $3m of accounting profit. The sale looks like this.

Action 1) reduce assets by $12m (crebit)
Acton 2) increase Cash by $15m (debit)

Notice something? Doesn't balance. Where does the $3m go? It goes to the P and L per IFRS, that's a free $3m.

On the other hand, If I sold the same player for $45m in Year 4 (where he is worth $48m NBV) I made a $3m loss. That also goes to the P and L, a $3m cost reducing my Net Profit. That's a $6m difference in net cash terms to the scenario where I sold him for $12m! But the media will still call the latter a bargin (fans to). Examples of "bargains" where simple fag packet maths tells me ENIC actually did a great deal include the Tripper sale - probably pure Net Profit.

The reason this also matters is that legally the amount you can pay out as a dividend is capped at a maximum of what's in Distributable Reserves, a legal concept arrived at by combining certain pots on your balance sheet including the largest - which is retained earnings. End of every year, your net profit from the P and L is transferred here. Yes, even though the P and L contains made up costs like depreciation, they still reduce the amount I can pay as a dividend. That's why these Trippier sales are great for ENIC, $20m of pure dividend. And what's Eriksen's NBV in last year of his contract? Again, pure NBV. Dividends though, are paid out of Cash, and so will impact future transfers and may require sales of other players to finance.

And in terms of transfer spend, FFP limits are based on accounting net profit. But large wages and salaries will push this down.

It's important to understand, that the main gist of the above is a transfer has surprisingly little effect in year. I see many posts here comparing transfer spend and net profit from the same year but they are totally unrelated to each other.

Summarised example. And the reason for ignoring wages, which are likely costing £10m a year with NIC for a $150k a week player, is these are an operating cost and should be evaluated against operating profits (i.e profits ignoring stuff like deprecation) i.e. prize money, TV money, and provided all player wages are less than those revenues then operating profit (which is just a management figure, not important in terms of FFP, dividends etc but a good approximation for cash) is positive which means we are in business. But this is why wages and transfer fees should never be mixed up, wage bills are evaluated against operating performance, transfer fees are just an accounting funny which has almost nothing to do with net profit, but the transfer fee when I sell a player needs to exceed the NBV or I reduce my NP and then it starts to matter becuase that means less FFP envelope, less dividend or in the case of ENIC same dividend to pay for Joe's new yacht and less cash for next season! This is why even though lay people think of company finances as one thing, there is a huge distinction between operating and investment cash flows - huge. If you're talking about "this year NP was x but spend was only y" then you're conflating two things that are not connected.

Joe Smith
Purchase Price
£90m​
Agent fees
£1m​
Signing On fee
£9m​
Intangible Asset
£100m​
Contract term5 years
Year 1
Balance Sheet
Increase to Assets
£100m​
Reduction to Cash
(£100m)​
Net Impact
£0m​
Impact to P and L
£0m​
Net Profit Unaffected by transfer. No impact on ability of ENIC to pay itself dividend of next year's FFP envelope

Year 2
Balance Sheet
Opening NBV of Contract
£100.0m​
Depreciated
(£20.0m)​
New NBV of contract
£80.0m​
P and L
Depreciation
(£20.0m)​
Net P and L impact
(£20.0m)​
Now we start to see an impact. But if I sell 1 Tripper, I've made it all back

So, carrying forward the Year 2 impact to Year 4, then assume sell the player - what do I need? Clubs will know what they need each year ongoing before they sign the player. It's called a business case. I am concentrating on the P and L only here as this drives the FFP parameters. Assumes the club always keeps enough cash in the business to service these operations (standard)
P and L impactNBV of contractRequired transfer fee for neutral P and L
Year 1
£0.0m​
£100.0m​
£100.0m​
Year 2
(£20.0m)​
£80.0m​
£100.0m​
Year 3
(£20.0m)​
£60.0m​
£80.0m​
Year 4
(£20.0m)​
£40.0m​
£60.0m​
Year 5
(£20.0m)​
£20.0m​
£40.0m​
Year 6
(£20.0m)​
£0.0m​
£20.0m​
Assuming the TV, prize revenues of the club/company exceed the wage bills (which is not evaluted when considering a transfer fee) then all we need to care about it meeting the number in right hand column when we sell the player because if we do not we have a P and L hit per accounting rules on asset sales as discussed above. By the time I get to end of contract, It's pretty easy for me to make a decent buck, get a P and L credit and increase my FFP envelope for the next year.
 
Last edited:
I'm an accountant and can shed some light on transfer fees and what they really mean.

A player is an asset. To be precise, an intangible asset because the item that makes a human being who is a player technically an asset by accounting standards as opposed to your regular joe is the way their contract is written - it allows the criteria of useful economic life and others to be met and so the contract is what the club is actually buying. When you purchase an asset you recognise what you paid for it on the Balance Sheet as an Asset. This DOES NOT show on your profit and loss (which is where net profit is). From an accounting perspective it's just moving money around the balance sheet - you shift value from one asset (cash) to another (intangible assets). Don't get confused here by the term contract, even if the salary of the player over a 5 year contract is £10m a year, if you pay £100m you capitalise £100m. The wages and salaries will come through later as costs on the profit on loss and are independent of the capitalised intangible asset - remember, the whole value to the club of the contract is it ties the player to the club for the duration (i.e. has genuine value with measurable economic benefit, hence an asset in laymans terms) and the club has valued that at whatever they paid for it hence that's assumed to be fair value paid for the intangible right to hold the player for that period. The wages and salaries will be executed under a personal services contract (generally, some cases may be simple employer/ee relationship but becoming less common albeit IR35 could bring it back into vogue) which is a separate agreement and similar to what average joes have - therefore, the wages will hit the P and L as costs under whatever is agreed in the services contract which is not the same as the capitalised contract (right to own) which is an asset. Note, the club has a duty to recognise fair value for all assets just like any company and so annual revaluations based on market are permitted. Any change to value is recognised by debiting (increase) or crediting (decrease) the asset and the same amount is then recognised in a revluation reserve which is in the equity section of the balance sheet and conveniently for owners is defined as part of distributable reserves and can therefore be paid out directly to owners as a dividend.

Assets must be depreciated over their "useful economic life". For intangible football contracts that's really easy, it's whatever the term is. Every year, the value paid at the beginning (purchase value) is reduced straight line over the UEL until it's worth nothing. i.e.if I have a 5 year contract then in year 1, I have £100m on my balance sheet for the player, year 2, I reduce this 20% (5 years) so it's now worth £80m on the balance sheet. Worth £20m in year 5, and zero by end of year 5. Where does the depreciation expense (the 20% go)? It goes on the P and L as a cost - yes guys, accounting is weird, that made up number really is an accounting cost and it reduces your net profit each year until end of Year 5 (fully depreciated). The value of the asset net of depreciation in any one year is called the Net Book Value. The really interesting thing about this, is if after 5 years the player recontracts - well, there is no transfer fee involved so, apart from signing on fees and agents fees that can be capitalised, nothing else is there to be capitalised. So thereafter, the player's Net Book Value is close to zero or at most very low (even at a generous agent/signing on fee, unless a Raiola player). This means, bids that the media may call a bargain may actually be decent whack. Example below

Say a player is bought for $60m on a 5 year deal. By Year 4 the NBV is $12m (depreciated 5 years). Bid comes in $15m - that's $3m of accounting profit. The sale looks like this.

Action 1) reduce assets by $12m (crebit)
Acton 2) increase Cash by $15m (debit)

Notice something? Doesn't balance. Where does the $3m go? It goes to the P and L per IFRS, that's a free $3m.

On the other hand, If I sold the same player for $45m in Year 4 (where he is worth $48m NBV) I made a $3m loss. That also goes to the P and L, a $3m cost reducing my Net Profit. That's a $6m difference in net cash terms to the scenario where I sold him for $12m! But the media will still call the latter a bargin (fans to). Examples of "bargains" where simple fag packet maths tells me ENIC actually did a great deal include the Tripper sale - probably pure Net Profit.

The reason this also matters is that legally the amount you can pay out as a dividend is capped at a maximum of what's in Distributable Reserves, a legal concept arrived at by combining certain pots on your balance sheet including the largest - which is retained earnings. End of every year, your net profit from the P and L is transferred here. Yes, even though the P and L contains made up costs like depreciation, they still reduce the amount I can pay as a dividend. That's why these Trippier sales are great for ENIC, $20m of pure dividend. And what's Eriksen's NBV in last year of his contract? Again, pure NBV. Dividends though, are paid out of Cash, and so will impact future transfers and may require sales of other players to finance.

And in terms of transfer spend, FFP limits are based on accounting net profit. But large wages and salaries will push this down.

It's important to understand, that the main gist of the above is a transfer has surprisingly little effect in year. I see many posts here comparing transfer spend and net profit from the same year but they are totally unrelated to each other.

Summarised example. And the reason for ignoring wages, which are likely costing £10m a year with NIC for a $150k a week player, is these are an operating cost and should be evaluated against operating profits (i.e profits ignoring stuff like deprecation) i.e. prize money, TV money, and provided all player wages are less than those revenues then operating profit (which is just a management figure, not important in terms of FFP, dividends etc but a good approximation for cash) is positive which means we are in business. But this is why wages and transfer fees should never be mixed up, wage bills are evaluated against operating performance, transfer fees are just an accounting funny which has almost nothing to do with net profit, but the transfer fee when I sell a player needs to exceed the NBV or I reduce my NP and then it starts to matter becuase that means less FFP envelope, less dividend or in the case of ENIC same dividend to pay for Joe's new yacht and less cash for next season! This is why even though lay people think of company finances as one thing, there is a huge distinction between operating and investment cash flows - huge. If you're talking about "this year NP was x but spend was only y" then you're conflating two things that are not connected.

Joe Smith
Purchase Price
£90m​
Agent fees
£1m​
Signing On fee
£9m​
Intangible Asset
£100m​
Contract term5 years
Year 1
Balance Sheet
Increase to Assets
£100m​
Reduction to Cash
(£100m)​
Net Impact
£0m​
Impact to P and L
£0m​
Net Profit Unaffected by transfer. No impact on ability of ENIC to pay itself dividend of next year's FFP envelope

Year 2
Balance Sheet
Opening NBV of Contract
£100.0m​
Depreciated
(£20.0m)​
New NBV of contract
£80.0m​
P and L
Depreciation
(£20.0m)​
Net P and L impact
(£20.0m)​
Now we start to see an impact. But if I sell 1 Tripper, I've made it all back

So, carrying forward the Year 2 impact to Year 4, then assume sell the player - what do I need? Clubs will know what they need each year ongoing before they sign the player. It's called a business case. I am concentrating on the P and L only here as this drives the FFP parameters. Assumes the club always keeps enough cash in the business to service these operations (standard)
P and L impactNBV of contractRequired transfer fee for neutral P and L
Year 1
£0.0m​
£100.0m​
£100.0m​
Year 2
(£20.0m)​
£80.0m​
£100.0m​
Year 3
(£20.0m)​
£60.0m​
£80.0m​
Year 4
(£20.0m)​
£40.0m​
£60.0m​
Year 5
(£20.0m)​
£20.0m​
£40.0m​
Year 6
(£20.0m)​
£0.0m​
£20.0m​
Assuming the TV, prize revenues of the club/company exceed the wage bills (which is not evaluted when considering a transfer fee) then all we need to care about it meeting the number in right hand column when we sell the player because if we do not we have a P and L hit per accounting rules on asset sales as discussed above. By the time I get to end of contract, It's pretty easy for me to make a decent buck, get a P and L credit and increase my FFP envelope for the next year.
Well explained, apart from the fact that the shareholders have received £0 for 10 years from dividends.
 
He's really come across as a bit of a wet wipe IMO, Rose going to go running to him complaining, Ndombele slouching about in a meeting with the fucking boss of the entire club.

Transfers are hard to do, we spent the most net in such and such window (did we really by the fucking way?) etc.

Had to lol@the bit where he was trying to make out that he was against playing behind closed doors because of the home support advantage rather than the fucking gate receipts.

If the way he comes across on the program is any reflection on what he's like to make a business deal with, is it any wonder the amount of fucking stories about him and the amount of transfer fails we seem to have had under ENIC?
 
So in the past 5 years these blokes have:
  • taken 40m out of the club in dividends
  • paid themselves the highest director fees in football
  • charged fans the 2nd highest ticket prices in the world
  • sacked the first manager put the club in title contention since the PL era began
  • built a stadium over budget & late
  • couldn't get a naming rights deal for said stadium
  • now unlikely to get naming rights for knocked back initial rates due to a worldwide pandemic (spursy or what)
The game is about glory but not to the English National Investment Company.

As an investment we are the Real Madrid of football assets. As a football club we are fuck all
It's absolutely disgusting.

They've taken £40,000,000.00 out of the club (from a reputable source) Or at best, invested zero.
While seeing the value of their asset grow imeasurably. Somewhere between 50 and 100 fold. Unprecedented.

They've achieved what, in their own words, they set out to do. Exploit the popularity of football.

And while their value grows and grows, they won't even sanction a badly needed, quality option to support and offer competition to Harry Kane.

And the most disgusting thing of all?
So many of our own fans supporting them
 
So I think it would be fair to say that the three clubs that are the class of world football at the moment, and the ones that have most mastered the player recruitment and acquisition marketplace, are Manchester City, Liverpool, and Bayern Munich. Those are the three top favorites for this year's Champions League, have won the previous two, and have most dominated major leagues during that spell.

It seems to me that they have some striking things in common, and things distinct from other clubs that are associated with "how football is now" (PSG, Chelsea, Barcelona, etc)

- They have, by reputation, the most dense, well staffed and professionalized recruitment and scouting departments at any of the major clubs. Large, stable structures with very little wheeling and dealing.

- Despite their wealth and stature, none of them have made any of the 15 most expensive transfers ever.

- None of their players have been purchased from another superclub, apologies to us and Atletico Madrid (Walker and Lucas Hernandez respectively)

- Considering the frequency with which they secure major players with large fees, there is very little protracted transfer drama involved with any of the players in their squads. Public negotiation and deadline day panic seem to be completely absent from their dealings.

- They've all been aggressive in targeting players for whom they can activate a release clause and thus not have to negotiate over a transfer fee at all. Naby Keita for Liverpool, Rodri for City, Lucas Hernandez for Bayern, they seek out deals that offer simplicity and clean transactions over bargain hunting.

- None of them ever sign old players, though they don't generally spend big on unproven youth either. It's all prime-age players for whom they know what they're getting.


Obviously the implicit critique here is how different this is than the way Daniel Levy operates Spurs. But even beyond that it's striking to me how similar the team building philosophy is at the clubs that have out-competed even their very richest and most prominent competitors, and that it doesn't involve being apex predators of the transfer market making Neymar-style earthquakes.

Food for thought.
 
Sorry Stevee

18th. Or third lowest net spend from 2014 - 2019

DD-COMPOSITE-PREM-NETT-SPEND.jpg



Fact
Why do you keep using this list when I and other posters have proven you the numbers on this list (and the subsequent position of our club) aren't correct?

It wouldn't take away from the point you are making but still.
 
Edit - thanks to the person who correctly pointed out ENIC haven't actually taken any dividends in 10 years. I hate to say it but Tottenham is a very well run and self sufficient business.

I'm an accountant and can shed some light on transfer fees and what they really mean.

A player is an asset. To be precise, an intangible asset because the item that makes a human being who is a player technically an asset by accounting standards as opposed to your regular joe is the way their contract is written - it allows the criteria of useful economic life and others to be met and so the contract is what the club is actually buying. When you purchase an asset you recognise what you paid for it on the Balance Sheet as an Asset. This DOES NOT show on your profit and loss (which is where net profit is). From an accounting perspective it's just moving money around the balance sheet - you shift value from one asset (cash) to another (intangible assets). Don't get confused here by the term contract, even if the salary of the player over a 5 year contract is £10m a year, if you pay £100m you capitalise £100m. The wages and salaries will come through later as costs on the profit on loss and are independent of the capitalised intangible asset - remember, the whole value to the club of the contract is it ties the player to the club for the duration (i.e. has genuine value with measurable economic benefit, hence an asset in laymans terms) and the club has valued that at whatever they paid for it hence that's assumed to be fair value paid for the intangible right to hold the player for that period. The wages and salaries will be executed under a personal services contract (generally, some cases may be simple employer/ee relationship but becoming less common albeit IR35 could bring it back into vogue) which is a separate agreement and similar to what average joes have - therefore, the wages will hit the P and L as costs under whatever is agreed in the services contract which is not the same as the capitalised contract (right to own) which is an asset. Note, the club has a duty to recognise fair value for all assets just like any company and so annual revaluations based on market are permitted. Any change to value is recognised by debiting (increase) or crediting (decrease) the asset and the same amount is then recognised in a revluation reserve which is in the equity section of the balance sheet and conveniently for owners is defined as part of distributable reserves and can therefore be paid out directly to owners as a dividend.

Assets must be depreciated over their "useful economic life". For intangible football contracts that's really easy, it's whatever the term is. Every year, the value paid at the beginning (purchase value) is reduced straight line over the UEL until it's worth nothing. i.e.if I have a 5 year contract then in year 1, I have £100m on my balance sheet for the player, year 2, I reduce this 20% (5 years) so it's now worth £80m on the balance sheet. Worth £20m in year 5, and zero by end of year 5. Where does the depreciation expense (the 20% go)? It goes on the P and L as a cost - yes guys, accounting is weird, that made up number really is an accounting cost and it reduces your net profit each year until end of Year 5 (fully depreciated). The value of the asset net of depreciation in any one year is called the Net Book Value. The really interesting thing about this, is if after 5 years the player recontracts - well, there is no transfer fee involved so, apart from signing on fees and agents fees that can be capitalised, nothing else is there to be capitalised. So thereafter, the player's Net Book Value is close to zero or at most very low (even at a generous agent/signing on fee, unless a Raiola player). This means, bids that the media may call a bargain may actually be decent whack. Example below

Say a player is bought for $60m on a 5 year deal. By Year 4 the NBV is $12m (depreciated 5 years). Bid comes in $15m - that's $3m of accounting profit. The sale looks like this.

Action 1) reduce assets by $12m (crebit)
Acton 2) increase Cash by $15m (debit)

Notice something? Doesn't balance. Where does the $3m go? It goes to the P and L per IFRS, that's a free $3m.

On the other hand, If I sold the same player for $45m in Year 4 (where he is worth $48m NBV) I made a $3m loss. That also goes to the P and L, a $3m cost reducing my Net Profit. That's a $6m difference in net cash terms to the scenario where I sold him for $12m! But the media will still call the latter a bargin (fans to). Examples of "bargains" where simple fag packet maths tells me ENIC actually did a great deal include the Tripper sale - probably pure Net Profit.

The reason this also matters is that legally the amount you can pay out as a dividend is capped at a maximum of what's in Distributable Reserves, a legal concept arrived at by combining certain pots on your balance sheet including the largest - which is retained earnings. End of every year, your net profit from the P and L is transferred here. Yes, even though the P and L contains made up costs like depreciation, they still reduce the amount I can pay as a dividend. That's why these Trippier sales are great for ENIC, $20m of pure dividend. And what's Eriksen's NBV in last year of his contract? Again, pure NBV. Dividends though, are paid out of Cash, and so will impact future transfers and may require sales of other players to finance.

And in terms of transfer spend, FFP limits are based on accounting net profit. But large wages and salaries will push this down.

It's important to understand, that the main gist of the above is a transfer has surprisingly little effect in year. I see many posts here comparing transfer spend and net profit from the same year but they are totally unrelated to each other.

Summarised example. And the reason for ignoring wages, which are likely costing £10m a year with NIC for a $150k a week player, is these are an operating cost and should be evaluated against operating profits (i.e profits ignoring stuff like deprecation) i.e. prize money, TV money, and provided all player wages are less than those revenues then operating profit (which is just a management figure, not important in terms of FFP, dividends etc but a good approximation for cash) is positive which means we are in business. But this is why wages and transfer fees should never be mixed up, wage bills are evaluated against operating performance, transfer fees are just an accounting funny which has almost nothing to do with net profit, but the transfer fee when I sell a player needs to exceed the NBV or I reduce my NP and then it starts to matter becuase that means less FFP envelope, less dividend or in the case of ENIC same dividend to pay for Joe's new yacht and less cash for next season! This is why even though lay people think of company finances as one thing, there is a huge distinction between operating and investment cash flows - huge. If you're talking about "this year NP was x but spend was only y" then you're conflating two things that are not connected.

Joe Smith
Purchase Price
£90m​
Agent fees
£1m​
Signing On fee
£9m​
Intangible Asset
£100m​
Contract term5 years
Year 1
Balance Sheet
Increase to Assets
£100m​
Reduction to Cash
(£100m)​
Net Impact
£0m​
Impact to P and L
£0m​
Net Profit Unaffected by transfer. No impact on ability of ENIC to pay itself dividend of next year's FFP envelope

Year 2
Balance Sheet
Opening NBV of Contract
£100.0m​
Depreciated
(£20.0m)​
New NBV of contract
£80.0m​
P and L
Depreciation
(£20.0m)​
Net P and L impact
(£20.0m)​
Now we start to see an impact. But if I sell 1 Tripper, I've made it all back

So, carrying forward the Year 2 impact to Year 4, then assume sell the player - what do I need? Clubs will know what they need each year ongoing before they sign the player. It's called a business case. I am concentrating on the P and L only here as this drives the FFP parameters. Assumes the club always keeps enough cash in the business to service these operations (standard)
P and L impactNBV of contractRequired transfer fee for neutral P and L
Year 1
£0.0m​
£100.0m​
£100.0m​
Year 2
(£20.0m)​
£80.0m​
£100.0m​
Year 3
(£20.0m)​
£60.0m​
£80.0m​
Year 4
(£20.0m)​
£40.0m​
£60.0m​
Year 5
(£20.0m)​
£20.0m​
£40.0m​
Year 6
(£20.0m)​
£0.0m​
£20.0m​
Assuming the TV, prize revenues of the club/company exceed the wage bills (which is not evaluted when considering a transfer fee) then all we need to care about it meeting the number in right hand column when we sell the player because if we do not we have a P and L hit per accounting rules on asset sales as discussed above. By the time I get to end of contract, It's pretty easy for me to make a decent buck, get a P and L credit and increase my FFP envelope for the next year.
Appreciate the time and effort on the explanation, but heres how I have assessed football at Tottenham for the past 40 years;
That player is shit, that player is good.
The team is playing some nice football, the team is playing complete dross.
Went home happy, went home fucked off.
What a great season, what a disappointing season.....
Roll on next game, roll on next season....

It really is a simple game at the end of the day and in those 40 years I’ve never had a conversation in the bar before or after a game discussing the fact that the 3 nil win was great and all that but is our bank manager happy with everything? Maybe we should call him before we get the next pint in so we can move on with the evening.....

Ive watched us win trophies, Ive watched us get relegated, Ive watched us sign top players, Ive watched us sign fucking donkeys, Ive watched us go nearly bankrupt and Ive watched us rebuild (many times) but nothing is as bad as this bollocks right now, where our chairman is the most famous face at the club.....75% of the other 19 premier league clubs couldn’t pick their chairman out of a police lineup....
 
Edit - thanks to the person who correctly pointed out ENIC haven't actually taken any dividends in 10 years. I hate to say it but Tottenham is a very well run and self sufficient business.

I'm an accountant and can shed some light on transfer fees and what they really mean.

A player is an asset. To be precise, an intangible asset because the item that makes a human being who is a player technically an asset by accounting standards as opposed to your regular joe is the way their contract is written - it allows the criteria of useful economic life and others to be met and so the contract is what the club is actually buying. When you purchase an asset you recognise what you paid for it on the Balance Sheet as an Asset. This DOES NOT show on your profit and loss (which is where net profit is). From an accounting perspective it's just moving money around the balance sheet - you shift value from one asset (cash) to another (intangible assets). Don't get confused here by the term contract, even if the salary of the player over a 5 year contract is £10m a year, if you pay £100m you capitalise £100m. The wages and salaries will come through later as costs on the profit on loss and are independent of the capitalised intangible asset - remember, the whole value to the club of the contract is it ties the player to the club for the duration (i.e. has genuine value with measurable economic benefit, hence an asset in laymans terms) and the club has valued that at whatever they paid for it hence that's assumed to be fair value paid for the intangible right to hold the player for that period. The wages and salaries will be executed under a personal services contract (generally, some cases may be simple employer/ee relationship but becoming less common albeit IR35 could bring it back into vogue) which is a separate agreement and similar to what average joes have - therefore, the wages will hit the P and L as costs under whatever is agreed in the services contract which is not the same as the capitalised contract (right to own) which is an asset. Note, the club has a duty to recognise fair value for all assets just like any company and so annual revaluations based on market are permitted. Any change to value is recognised by debiting (increase) or crediting (decrease) the asset and the same amount is then recognised in a revluation reserve which is in the equity section of the balance sheet and conveniently for owners is defined as part of distributable reserves and can therefore be paid out directly to owners as a dividend.

Assets must be depreciated over their "useful economic life". For intangible football contracts that's really easy, it's whatever the term is. Every year, the value paid at the beginning (purchase value) is reduced straight line over the UEL until it's worth nothing. i.e.if I have a 5 year contract then in year 1, I have £100m on my balance sheet for the player, year 2, I reduce this 20% (5 years) so it's now worth £80m on the balance sheet. Worth £20m in year 5, and zero by end of year 5. Where does the depreciation expense (the 20% go)? It goes on the P and L as a cost - yes guys, accounting is weird, that made up number really is an accounting cost and it reduces your net profit each year until end of Year 5 (fully depreciated). The value of the asset net of depreciation in any one year is called the Net Book Value. The really interesting thing about this, is if after 5 years the player recontracts - well, there is no transfer fee involved so, apart from signing on fees and agents fees that can be capitalised, nothing else is there to be capitalised. So thereafter, the player's Net Book Value is close to zero or at most very low (even at a generous agent/signing on fee, unless a Raiola player). This means, bids that the media may call a bargain may actually be decent whack. Example below

Say a player is bought for $60m on a 5 year deal. By Year 4 the NBV is $12m (depreciated 5 years). Bid comes in $15m - that's $3m of accounting profit. The sale looks like this.

Action 1) reduce assets by $12m (crebit)
Acton 2) increase Cash by $15m (debit)

Notice something? Doesn't balance. Where does the $3m go? It goes to the P and L per IFRS, that's a free $3m.

On the other hand, If I sold the same player for $45m in Year 4 (where he is worth $48m NBV) I made a $3m loss. That also goes to the P and L, a $3m cost reducing my Net Profit. That's a $6m difference in net cash terms to the scenario where I sold him for $12m! But the media will still call the latter a bargin (fans to). Examples of "bargains" where simple fag packet maths tells me ENIC actually did a great deal include the Tripper sale - probably pure Net Profit.

The reason this also matters is that legally the amount you can pay out as a dividend is capped at a maximum of what's in Distributable Reserves, a legal concept arrived at by combining certain pots on your balance sheet including the largest - which is retained earnings. End of every year, your net profit from the P and L is transferred here. Yes, even though the P and L contains made up costs like depreciation, they still reduce the amount I can pay as a dividend. That's why these Trippier sales are great for ENIC, $20m of pure dividend. And what's Eriksen's NBV in last year of his contract? Again, pure NBV. Dividends though, are paid out of Cash, and so will impact future transfers and may require sales of other players to finance.

And in terms of transfer spend, FFP limits are based on accounting net profit. But large wages and salaries will push this down.

It's important to understand, that the main gist of the above is a transfer has surprisingly little effect in year. I see many posts here comparing transfer spend and net profit from the same year but they are totally unrelated to each other.

Summarised example. And the reason for ignoring wages, which are likely costing £10m a year with NIC for a $150k a week player, is these are an operating cost and should be evaluated against operating profits (i.e profits ignoring stuff like deprecation) i.e. prize money, TV money, and provided all player wages are less than those revenues then operating profit (which is just a management figure, not important in terms of FFP, dividends etc but a good approximation for cash) is positive which means we are in business. But this is why wages and transfer fees should never be mixed up, wage bills are evaluated against operating performance, transfer fees are just an accounting funny which has almost nothing to do with net profit, but the transfer fee when I sell a player needs to exceed the NBV or I reduce my NP and then it starts to matter becuase that means less FFP envelope, less dividend or in the case of ENIC same dividend to pay for Joe's new yacht and less cash for next season! This is why even though lay people think of company finances as one thing, there is a huge distinction between operating and investment cash flows - huge. If you're talking about "this year NP was x but spend was only y" then you're conflating two things that are not connected.

Joe Smith
Purchase Price
£90m​
Agent fees
£1m​
Signing On fee
£9m​
Intangible Asset
£100m​
Contract term5 years
Year 1
Balance Sheet
Increase to Assets
£100m​
Reduction to Cash
(£100m)​
Net Impact
£0m​
Impact to P and L
£0m​
Net Profit Unaffected by transfer. No impact on ability of ENIC to pay itself dividend of next year's FFP envelope

Year 2
Balance Sheet
Opening NBV of Contract
£100.0m​
Depreciated
(£20.0m)​
New NBV of contract
£80.0m​
P and L
Depreciation
(£20.0m)​
Net P and L impact
(£20.0m)​
Now we start to see an impact. But if I sell 1 Tripper, I've made it all back

So, carrying forward the Year 2 impact to Year 4, then assume sell the player - what do I need? Clubs will know what they need each year ongoing before they sign the player. It's called a business case. I am concentrating on the P and L only here as this drives the FFP parameters. Assumes the club always keeps enough cash in the business to service these operations (standard)
P and L impactNBV of contractRequired transfer fee for neutral P and L
Year 1
£0.0m​
£100.0m​
£100.0m​
Year 2
(£20.0m)​
£80.0m​
£100.0m​
Year 3
(£20.0m)​
£60.0m​
£80.0m​
Year 4
(£20.0m)​
£40.0m​
£60.0m​
Year 5
(£20.0m)​
£20.0m​
£40.0m​
Year 6
(£20.0m)​
£0.0m​
£20.0m​
Assuming the TV, prize revenues of the club/company exceed the wage bills (which is not evaluted when considering a transfer fee) then all we need to care about it meeting the number in right hand column when we sell the player because if we do not we have a P and L hit per accounting rules on asset sales as discussed above. By the time I get to end of contract, It's pretty easy for me to make a decent buck, get a P and L credit and increase my FFP envelope for the next year.
You know its bad when the accountants start talking about football

Only numbers that matter are on the day/night goals scored > goals conceded. Game is about glory, not about balance sheets & P&L statements.
 
Interesting that TWO anti-Levy accounts joined in the last 24 hours and seem to like each others posts.... 🤔

To Dare is Too Dear To Dare is Too Dear & Lenny Hatchet Lenny Hatchet .

Sure it's just a coincidence.
I had an old account many years ago that I no longer use the email address for. Overseas based poster who after Saturday's abomination wanted to hear what the locals thought. Football board I post on down under only has about 3 active spurs posters and 1 is an absolute deadbeat!
 
Appreciate the time and effort on the explanation, but heres how I have assessed football at Tottenham for the past 40 years;
That player is shit, that player is good.
The team is playing some nice football, the team is playing complete dross.
Went home happy, went home fucked off.
What a great season, what a disappointing season.....
Roll on next game, roll on next season....

It really is a simple game at the end of the day and in those 40 years I’ve never had a conversation in the bar before or after a game discussing the fact that the 3 nil win was great and all that but is our bank manager happy with everything? Maybe we should call him before we get the next pint in so we can move on with the evening.....

Ive watched us win trophies, Ive watched us get relegated, Ive watched us sign top players, Ive watched us sign fucking donkeys, Ive watched us go nearly bankrupt and Ive watched us rebuild (many times) but nothing is as bad as this bollocks right now, where our chairman is the most famous face at the club.....75% of the other 19 premier league clubs couldn’t pick their chairman out of a police lineup....
You know its bad when the accountants start talking about football

Only numbers that matter are on the day/night goals scored > goals conceded. Game is about glory, not about balance sheets & P&L statements.

Agree with you btw.

Follow NFL and the NBA, particularly the latter, very closely and I think the Football financial model is pretty broken in that you have to accept you're gonna need to through all financial responsibility out the window to compete. But the owners know that's what they're getting into when they buy a football club, it's a stupid game but whatever, it's how it is. If you try to run a football club like a bank, you will never be competitive - that's Levy's challenge as he knows Joe won't plug any holes for him.

Hard to go into detail about NFL/NBA because it's not really relevant on a Spurs forum. I'm not sure the NFL's as great because they have a hard salary cap which feels anti-competitive but the NBA's soft cap allows teams a lot of flexibility which they can take advantage of if they trade non-player assets such as draft rights or sign a player to meet specific needs i.e. a mid level exception, injured player exception. If a team wants to go above the cap they can elect to enter the luxury tax. If a player performs at a level high enough (defined parameters) they become eligible for a bigger pay check but teams will always have first dibs on a player (restricted free agency) one year before expiry so they can trade to free up cap space if they don't want to enter the tax, otherwise a player is free to enter unrestricted free agency. If a team want to mitigate risk of losing a star man for free there's a sign and trade exception. These provisions remove the need for transfer fees whilst not moving the sport to a communist model. There've been some trades in the last 2 years that have really impressed me in Basketball and made me think football needs to go a different way - I mean when you consider the balance sheet movements isn't this all a transfer fee is anyway? The only difference is it puts a huge cash burden on owners which penalises anyone not owned by a head of state or Oligarch - whereas in the NBA non-cash assets are used. Transfer fees are destined to spiral, and they're just balance sheet funnies which in cash terms often end up in agents pockets, starving the sport of investment and pricing out non-state owned clubs and community clubs (like Spurs).

Challenge football has is there are so many leagues, but I think the major European leagues have enough leverage to bring something in. How can it make sense that owners have to burn through $100ms just to move from 14th to 13th place in the league? Shouldn't any such player moves be value-linked by bringing in non cash asset trades and exception rules, then the profits can be reinvested in player development and the "Franchise".

Football right now is a cash burn. The sport's been in decline due to this since '92. Eventually the bubble is going to burst. The Collective Bargaining Agreements in US sports enforce the rules referred to and effectively mean teams cease to be run like companies (which seems to be what most of us are asking for) but they cede to the CBA rules, we need something like that here even if it isn't identical (can never see a draft working for e.g.). Considering Lebron James and Chris Paul pretty much drafted the current CBA themselves it's pretty impressive, a very creative solution to the once thought unsolvable paradoxes of modern sports and finance.
 
Back
Top Bottom