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I usually can't be bothered to respond to rubbish like this in detail but I'll make an exception this time
"Don't like the owners or an aspect of how a club is run ? go and support Man city , Chelsea Etc " is one of the most juvenile and intellectually barren arguments you can make and it makes me laugh whenever I see it .
I'll always love this football club and the owners are not the football club , merely the custodians at this point in time. I am perfectly entitled to voice my displeasure If I feel they are not doing right by the fans and by the club.
So I will not be fucking off to support Chelsea , sorry.
I also love the idea that because we were a mess 25 years ago it makes it fine that we've been a walking disaster zone for the last few years , countless examples of money pissed up against a wall (When we've actually been bothered to spend) , dreadful managerial decisions and more examples of managers failing to be backed than I've had hot dinners.
Ah good ol Infrastructure ! Normal fans do not give a shit about infrastructure , they care about one thing and one thing only, performances on the pitch. We charge some of the highest ticket prices in world football , being able to stare at a wonderful stadium does not compensate for watching a failed , patched up and mismanaged team on the pitch , it's not difficult to understand surely.
I won't say Enic haven't done some good in their time , that wouldn't be true. But it's clear where their priorities lie and it ain't on the green stuff.
As a fan that's all I really care about , sod golf courses , property portfolios and NFL.
No matter how much some people want to do us down and keep peddling the "Poor plucky little tottenham" agenda , we are a big club , a proud club , a club that has always prided itself on competing for and winning silverware
One league cup in 21 years is quite frankly pitiful.
You were mentioning how much of a mess we were in the 90s , newsflash we won two trophies in that 1 decade , we've one a single trophy in 2 and bit under this lot
But hey , world class facilities .
No, come on.
You make some good points.
For what it is worth, I don't particularly like them either but the whole campaign to get them out, whinging everywhere etc is tiresome.
I would obviously much prefer to have a team winning on the pitch but I appreciate that they've also done a power of good along the way in amongst their many fuck ups.
We could have it much worse, and we should be careful what we wish for.
If everything is still the same in say 18 months, or when Conte is gone then I'll happily say get them to fuck. This is their chance now, their last one to get it right.
We've not been fighting for titles in the very recent past
Its not on the owners that we didn't sign anyone for 500+ days? That when top level talent was available we refused to pay the money to get them, that we refuse to pay fair value for players and only go in when there is a deal to be done?
English National investment Company
Who else do they do this for or are they just using our name to create a portfolio?
Securities like property over the actual thing that makes THFC exists
Who else do they do this for or are they just using our name to create a portfolio?
I suggest a cup final just last season would say otherwise. Another in 2019. League challenge in 2017 etc.
We're not going for silver every single year like some but to say we've not challenged is a bit of a lie.
I think the rephrasing of the post is yes we got to a cup final and along with the league and CL it was more a matter of we didn't compete for whatever reason.
A Cup run to the final of the Carabao Cup based 100% on draw does not suggest that at all.
And usually when titles is used it is in reference to the PL title, I haven't seen people using title for Cups/trophies before.
The fact that you have to use very few, marginal examples shows that we have not been competing for titles or Cups in the recent past at all.
The biggest and clearest example of our refusal to push for silverware per se is that despite being among the biggest clubs in the competition many times, we haven’t been past the quarterfinals of the UEFA Cup/Europa League in the modern era.
Last year under Mourinho was the first time in my time supporting Spurs that we were really taking non-CL European football seriously.
Last year under Mourinho was the first time in my time supporting Spurs that we were really taking non-CL European football seriously.
Enic's achievements in 20 years:
1 League cup
Lowest net spend
Some of the most expensive season tickets in world football
1 League cup
Lowest net spend
Some of the most expensive season tickets in world football
We've been in three finals over the last 7 years - it isn't great but is absolute fact that we've been pretty close to honours. Add to that the various SF appearances and the one genuine title fight and it is undeniable we've been fairly competitive, especially given we are not the behemoth that some seem to think that we are.
It of course stings that we've not been able to turn anything into a trophy since 2008 but it does not take away from absolute facts that we've been, at least competitive in going for honours.
Only the clubs who have any claim to be bigger than we are can say the same over the same period - ask Newcastle fans what a final or a title chase is and they'll need to head back well over 20 years to have been in one and some way longer since they have won anything. Everton have won nothing in 27 years, Villa I think possibly longer, Leeds now 30 years since a success and these are all clubs that were on our level when ENIC took over. Not one of them have been or are currently near us, in reality.
We have spent commensurate with a plucky top 4 challenger, and shuffled through managers holding them accountable for that level of success.
Then Poch changed everything, dramatically improved the team despite negative net spend, pushed us to the precipice of major honors, and then Levy fucking blew it and here we are right back where we were under Martin Jol.
The only difference of course being that our revenue now makes us one of the richest clubs on earth.
Genuine title fight is a bit of a stretch
And 3 finals over 7 years is not impressive at all especially compared to our supposed rivals and other clubs in the big 6 who have all won more titles/Cups in that time.
I will ask you this as this is something that I am seeing more from ENIC apologists, what is your expectation of Tottenham? Do you see as us being in the big 6? Do you think we should compete for top 4, FA Cups, CL titles, Europa League titles?
I ask because a lot of the excuses I see from people like you seem to show a real lack of ambition, and I don't mean that as an insult but you might have a different view on where Spurs should be.
For me when you say 3 finals over 7 years to me that shows how poor we have been but you seem to think it shows well on the ownership. You say we have been fairly competitive, I would say we have not been very competitive at all especially outside of when Poch was here.
I do think that some of the disagreements could be resolved if people just realize that they have different expectations for the club. I don't think it will mean we agree but easier to understand views of people if they don't think that we should be competitive with the other top teams of the PL and Europe.
If we are in the Villa, Everton, Wolves, Leicester 2nd/3rd tier of PL football then our results are decent. I do not see us in that group but it makes some of your views make a lot more sense if you do.
Hard to disagree and as already said they are certainly not blameless. I'm sure there are a myriad of factors as to why it hasn't quite happened for us and one of those is ENIC being tight at a time when it may have made a difference to just spend a few quid. We'll never know for sure.
I maintain their biggest fuck ups were firstly, sacking Poch, and secondly, bringing Mourinho in to replace him.
They've bought some time appointing Conte. Now they need to buy to back the man.
We're not in the truly elite group - although I think in time we could be. Years of financial mismanagement before ENIC and our beautiful but not fit for purpose home held us back considerably. Unless you have a Russian backer or some such we were where we 'deserved' to be.
We're now in place that we're a level behind City, Liverpool and Chelsea for sure. Probably United as well.
We're probably in a sub elite group with Woolwich. Then there's the next batch.
My genuine expectations? - Fairly regular silverware, and decent league output. Half decent football that doesn't make your eyes bleed.
You can't blame the group before ENIC for our problems now. That is pure crap. Liverpool doesn't have a Russian or Oil country owner they have won titles and Cups. They have been much more competitive than us. They aren't limited by the same crap in the transfer window by their owners.
The scum aren't owned by a Russian or oil nation and they have won, they have backed their managers.
Even Leicester who I don't think are a model club but still at least run their club properly so they can get success unlike ENIC.
The Russian/Oil nations arguments would be much more valid if it was only them we were struggling to beat but that is clearly not the case. It wasn't Abramovich or Abu Dhabi that had us buy zero players for 500+ days or buy Rodon over Skrianiar or not pay the image rights for Dybala or make a fair offer for Grealish etc.
I think that we certainly should be in a similar group to LIverpool, yes they have been a historically bigger club but they are owned by a similar investment group that doesn't pour in ridiculous amounts of money into it. They have blown past us and made the type of moves that most would say Levy doesn't let us do with the way he runs the club.
I would agree with that last point you make and would say I have not got that under ENIC at all.
You forgot the Peace Cup
1 Cup in 21 years is shit but if you look at things in context how much of that can you blame ENIC for?
It can't be ENIC's fault that we've reached 21 semi finals since 1991 and only won one measly cup in that time. If you're getting to cup finals and semi finals then that suggests that it isn't recruitment or investment issue or the fact that we don't have good enough players.
How many of those semi's and final's have we been favourites to win? For example I can think of in 2016 and 2017 we reached the semi final of the FA Cup a few years years ago and had beaten those teams (Chelsea/Utd) earlier in the season. Can you really blame ENIC's that Poch decided to play Son at LWB against Chelsea despite having Davies on the bench, can you blame them we lost to a shite Portsmouth team that finished bottom of the league that season in the FA Cup in 2009...Can you blame them for Poch bringing in an unfit Kane over Lucas in the CL final?
It's more a mentality issue and in those particular cases a management issue as well.
The only time ENIC/Levy has had a direct influence over a cup was when he sacked Jose before the cup final something that was swetp under the carpet because it was the same day as the ESL debacle and since our fanbase didn't like Jose people were genrally happy with the decision but IMO it's arguably the single worst decision he's ever made at this club and something I'll never be able to forgive him for.
It can't be ENIC's fault that we've reached 21 semi finals since 1991 and only won one measly cup in that time. If you're getting to cup finals and semi finals then that suggests that it isn't recruitment or investment issue or the fact that we don't have good enough players.
How many of those semi's and final's have we been favourites to win? For example I can think of in 2016 and 2017 we reached the semi final of the FA Cup a few years years ago and had beaten those teams (Chelsea/Utd) earlier in the season. Can you really blame ENIC's that Poch decided to play Son at LWB against Chelsea despite having Davies on the bench, can you blame them we lost to a shite Portsmouth team that finished bottom of the league that season in the FA Cup in 2009...Can you blame them for Poch bringing in an unfit Kane over Lucas in the CL final?
It's more a mentality issue and in those particular cases a management issue as well.
The only time ENIC/Levy has had a direct influence over a cup was when he sacked Jose before the cup final something that was swetp under the carpet because it was the same day as the ESL debacle and since our fanbase didn't like Jose people were genrally happy with the decision but IMO it's arguably the single worst decision he's ever made at this club and something I'll never be able to forgive him for.
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'They have blown past us'.
Perhaps true, but after a period of abject failure, by their own standards. Using Liverpool isn't really a good idea. They were us not that long ago, near enough.