Levy / ENIC

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Igula

#1 Supporter of Mason's Mates
1 Cup in 21 years is shit but if you look at things in context how much of that can you blame ENIC for?

Most if not all.

It can't be ENIC's fault that we've reached 21 semi finals since 1991 and only won one measly cup in that time. If you're getting to cup finals and semi finals then that suggests that it isn't recruitment or investment issue or the fact that we don't have good enough players. How many of those semi's and final's have we been favourites to win?

Yes it 100% is on them that we make it to those SF's and Finals and don't have the team to compete. We are not the favorites because Levy does not invest in the team, does not back the managers.

For example I can think of in 2016 and 2017 we reached the semi final two years ago and had beaten those teams (Chelsea/Utd) earlier in the season. Can you really blame ENIC's that Poch decided to play Son at LWB against Chelsea despite having Davies on the bench, can you blame them we lost to a shite Portsmouth team that finished bottom of the league that season in the FA Cup in 2009...Can you blame them for Poch bringing in an unfit Kane over Lucas in the CL final?

Yes you can blame them for the Chelsea game because the fact that the option was play Son out of position or play dog shit Davies is the problem.

Having dogshit Lucas as the back-up for Kane is their fault.

It's more a mentality issue and in those particular cases a management issue as well.

No it isn't mentality or management it is a lack of quality player issue.

We didn't lose to Chelsea in the SF because of Conte's management we lost because our squad was miles behind them. Because we had to play multiple players that weren't close to good enough in our starting 11. With Son out we had zero quality attacking depth to replace him.

That is all on Levy.

The only time ENIC/Levy has had a direct influence over a cup was when he sacked Jose before the cup final something that was swetp under the carpet because it was the same day as the ESL debacle and since our fanbase didn't like Jose people were genrally happy with the decision but IMO it's arguably the single worst decision he's ever made at this club and something I'll never be able to forgive him for.

Levy's lack of investment in the club has had a direct result in every single cup failure we have had.
 

oldwiltshireyid

Spurs since 1960
I usually can't be bothered to respond to rubbish like this in detail but I'll make an exception this time

"Don't like the owners or an aspect of how a club is run ? go and support Man city , Chelsea Etc " is one of the most juvenile and intellectually barren arguments you can make and it makes me laugh whenever I see it .

I'll always love this football club and the owners are not the football club , merely the custodians at this point in time. I am perfectly entitled to voice my displeasure If I feel they are not doing right by the fans and by the club.

So I will not be fucking off to support Chelsea , sorry.

I also love the idea that because we were a mess 25 years ago it makes it fine that we've been a walking disaster zone for the last few years , countless examples of money pissed up against a wall (When we've actually been bothered to spend) , dreadful managerial decisions and more examples of managers failing to be backed than I've had hot dinners.

Ah good ol Infrastructure ! Normal fans do not give a shit about infrastructure , they care about one thing and one thing only, performances on the pitch. We charge some of the highest ticket prices in world football , being able to stare at a wonderful stadium does not compensate for watching a failed , patched up and mismanaged team on the pitch , it's not difficult to understand surely.

I won't say Enic haven't done some good in their time , that wouldn't be true. But it's clear where their priorities lie and it ain't on the green stuff.

As a fan that's all I really care about , sod golf courses , property portfolios and NFL.

No matter how much some people want to do us down and keep peddling the "Poor plucky little tottenham" agenda , we are a big club , a proud club , a club that has always prided itself on competing for and winning silverware

One league cup in 21 years is quite frankly pitiful.

You were mentioning how much of a mess we were in the 90s , newsflash we won two trophies in that 1 decade , we've one a single trophy in 2 and bit under this lot

But hey , world class facilities .
So eloquently put and straight from the heart. Well said sir!
 

Igula

#1 Supporter of Mason's Mates
'They have blown past us'.

Perhaps true, but after a period of abject failure, by their own standards. Using Liverpool isn't really a good idea. They were us not that long ago, near enough.

Using Liverpool as an example works because as you say they were struggling but instead of being stubborn like Levy they made changes and moves that the club needed to improve. The exact kind of moves that Levy refuses to make.

They brought Klopp in let him have a say in the football direction of the club and then spent big to back him. No chance Levy spends like they did on Alisson and VVD. They bought Jota even having a solid front 3 because they understood they need to strengthen areas before they are a problem not 4 years after the problem begins.
 
Genuine title fight is a bit of a stretch

And 3 finals over 7 years is not impressive at all especially compared to our supposed rivals and other clubs in the big 6 who have all won more titles/Cups in that time.

I will ask you this as this is something that I am seeing more from ENIC apologists, what is your expectation of Tottenham? Do you see as us being in the big 6? Do you think we should compete for top 4, FA Cups, CL titles, Europa League titles?

I ask because a lot of the excuses I see from people like you seem to show a real lack of ambition, and I don't mean that as an insult but you might have a different view on where Spurs should be.

For me when you say 3 finals over 7 years to me that shows how poor we have been but you seem to think it shows well on the ownership. You say we have been fairly competitive, I would say we have not been very competitive at all especially outside of when Poch was here.

I do think that some of the disagreements could be resolved if people just realize that they have different expectations for the club. I don't think it will mean we agree but easier to understand views of people if they don't think that we should be competitive with the other top teams of the PL and Europe.

If we are in the Villa, Everton, Wolves, Leicester 2nd/3rd tier of PL football then our results are decent. I do not see us in that group but it makes some of your views make a lot more sense if you do.
This is very interesting, and perhaps is the bottom line of explaining not just the difference between views on here, but also the incredulity of each end of the spectrum that the other can possibly think the way they do.

I know it's not me you've asked the question to, but I'll answer if that's ok. Just my opinion obviously, others have every right to hold a different one.

For me personally, we currently naturally sit in a small tier between the long-term (say 10-year) top tier (Man City, Chelsea, Man United, Liverpool got in there in recent years), and what I'd consider the third tier (Villa, Leicester, Everton, West, Wolves have got in there in recent years). For me we sit in a 2nd tier with just Woolwich joining us there (they used to be top tier but have fallen, replaced by City 10 years ago).

Obvious question will be why do I see us in 2nd rather than top tier? Well, because for 3 of those 4 clubs - City, Chelsea, United - they are prepared to throw huge amounts of money at achieving success. I know people argue that our owners should put more money in, but they own the club and it is their decision whether or not to do that, so there is no point in me saying 'Lewis should inject £500m to help us compete', for me that's his business not mine. (I know many will disagree with that, as is their prerogative. But in life I'm never one to try and spend other people's money). Liverpool are then in that top tier because in the last 5 years they have done similar to what we were doing a few years before, but they have done it better, bought the right players at the right time (mixture of wisdom and luck, like with any purchases), won trophies, and to some degree it seems success breeds success, players want to come, your scouts are clearly selecting well etc. For me we could well have got there, but we failed to back Poch when he needed it, then we to some extent got unlucky by paying big money for duds like N'Dombele and Lo Celso, when on paper they looked like they would significantly improve us. Also we did get into a couple of cup finals that on another day we could have won (Liverpool were nothing special that night, and although Man City battered us earlier this year, we've beaten them enough times in recent years to know that we can do it on the right day, etc).

So what is my expectation? Well, given that we've just built a new stadium, given that covid has impacted everyone, and given that Lewis doesn't want to bankroll big spending, personally for the next (say) 3 seasons I'd be delighted if we got at least 4th place every year, possibly challenging for the title one of those years (just being involved though, not winning it I very much doubt). Of course if we could pick up a cup in those 3 years that would be great, we're obviously long overdue, though as I said for me we've been incredibly unfortunate in that regard in the last 10 or so years. After 3 years, if the new stadium really cements us as bigger than we are now, then maybe I'd want more - though I'm always conscious that each year only one team can finish top of the EPL, we can't all win it...

Obviously 'success' is a relative term and different for everyone, but if you look at the other 90ish clubs in the English leagues, how many of them consider it failure if their club doesn't win either a cup or their division every few years? Most clubs win nothing ever! Now I know we're not 'most clubs', we're much bigger than that, but for the reasons I've mentioned above, for me we're only in the '2nd tier', and so should not expect regular titles or trophies.

There you go, that's my take, roughly at least (I've not planned it, I've written it as it's come out, so some bits may be not be quite right, but near enough). By the way, I don't say any of the above to wind anyone up etc, it's just how I personally feel, and I absolutely respect if others feel differently.

On the other side of the coin, I do perhaps have a question for the naysayers - if we'd won the CL final that night, the Carabao earlier this year, and one FA Cup in the last (say) 10 years, would you all be happy, or happier, with ENIC, Levy etc, or is it not about success on the pitch?
 
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I usually can't be bothered to respond to rubbish like this in detail but I'll make an exception this time

"Don't like the owners or an aspect of how a club is run ? go and support Man city , Chelsea Etc " is one of the most juvenile and intellectually barren arguments you can make and it makes me laugh whenever I see it .

I'll always love this football club and the owners are not the football club , merely the custodians at this point in time. I am perfectly entitled to voice my displeasure If I feel they are not doing right by the fans and by the club.

So I will not be fucking off to support Chelsea , sorry.

I also love the idea that because we were a mess 25 years ago it makes it fine that we've been a walking disaster zone for the last few years , countless examples of money pissed up against a wall (When we've actually been bothered to spend) , dreadful managerial decisions and more examples of managers failing to be backed than I've had hot dinners.

Ah good ol Infrastructure ! Normal fans do not give a shit about infrastructure , they care about one thing and one thing only, performances on the pitch. We charge some of the highest ticket prices in world football , being able to stare at a wonderful stadium does not compensate for watching a failed , patched up and mismanaged team on the pitch , it's not difficult to understand surely.

I won't say Enic haven't done some good in their time , that wouldn't be true. But it's clear where their priorities lie and it ain't on the green stuff.

As a fan that's all I really care about , sod golf courses , property portfolios and NFL.

No matter how much some people want to do us down and keep peddling the "Poor plucky little tottenham" agenda , we are a big club , a proud club , a club that has always prided itself on competing for and winning silverware

One league cup in 21 years is quite frankly pitiful.

You were mentioning how much of a mess we were in the 90s , newsflash we won two trophies in that 1 decade , we've one a single trophy in 2 and bit under this lot

But hey , world class facilities .

"a walking disaster zone for the last few years"

The last decade has been the most successful average league position wise in our history - we reached our first ever European Cup / CL in our history ... but sure no trophies.

When you decide that this is a "walking disaster zone" you're just behaving like a City/Chelsea/Utd entitled fan ... we're better than that.

Sure have a view - but don't slag the club you claim to support by denigrating the massive improvement off the field and, believe it or not, the lesser improvement on the field.

Sure a lot more improvement needed but 'walking disaster' 95% of clubs can only dream about doing what we have, get over yourself.
 

Danboy Totter

Property Portfolio FC - ENIC FC TIL I DIE
So eloquently put and straight from the heart. Well said sir!
Thanks mate

We are all Spurs fans at the end of the day and entitled to our own opinions.

If someone believes that our owners are good for us then fair enough.

I disagree but respect the opinion. I can't stand this sanctimonious crap about not being real fans and go and support Chelsea if you are not happy. Its a load of rubbish
 
Using Liverpool as an example works because as you say they were struggling but instead of being stubborn like Levy they made changes and moves that the club needed to improve. The exact kind of moves that Levy refuses to make.

They brought Klopp in let him have a say in the football direction of the club and then spent big to back him. No chance Levy spends like they did on Alisson and VVD. They bought Jota even having a solid front 3 because they understood they need to strengthen areas before they are a problem not 4 years after the problem begins.
So employing Conte and spending 50m more than Liverpool in the last five years - you missed all that?

FYI - Klopp on transfers "I’m not an idiot. It’s enough that I have a first and the last word - in the middle we can discuss. We want to discuss good players on the highest level. I’m not a genius. I need other people to get the perfect information. When we have this we will decide to sign or sell a player."

That's the same policy as Spurs have had for years, no surprise as it was an ex Spurs man Michael Edwards who put the Liverpool transfer committee in place, he's leaving them this summer.
 
Thanks mate

We are all Spurs fans at the end of the day and entitled to our own opinions.

If someone believes that our owners are good for us then fair enough.

I disagree but respect the opinion. I can't stand this sanctimonious crap about not being real fans and go and support Chelsea if you are not happy. Its a load of rubbish
Must say I'm pleasantly surprised to read that - I've always (perhaps lazily) assumed that you're one of the extremists who basically wants anyone who doesn't criticise ENIC to be kicked off the forum for not being real fans! Judging by what you've said above, you're not in that camp at all - so apologies for making invalid assumptions previously. I'm the same btw - I have a different opinion to you, but I respect yours, and try wherever I can to understand it better or find some common ground etc. :)
 

Igula

#1 Supporter of Mason's Mates
This is very interesting, and perhaps is the bottom line of explaining not just the difference between views on here, but also the incredulity of each end of the spectrum that the other can possibly think the way they do.

I know it's not me you've asked the question to, but I'll answer if that's ok. Just my opinion obviously, others have every right to hold a different one.

I think it is great that you are answering the question and would love to hear from more folks with responses like this. I think trying to understand the issues each side has is much more effective than the insults that usually get thrown out from the Levy In side.


For me personally, we currently naturally sit in a small tier between the long-term (say 10-year) top tier (Man City, Chelsea, Man United, Liverpool got in there in recent years), and what I'd consider the third tier (Villa, Leicester, Everton, West, Wolves have got in there in recent years). For me we sit in a 2nd tier with just Woolwich joining us there (they used to be top tier but have fallen, replaced by City 10 years ago).

I think you are probably right here.

I classified it as 1a. City, United Chelsea the teams with money at levels of nobody else and 1b. Liverpool, Woolwich, Tottenham. Not as much money but certainly enough money to compete with those clubs, if not every year but certainly in the mix for top 4/Cups.


Obvious question will be why do I see us in 2nd rather than top tier? Well, because for 3 of those 4 clubs - City, Chelsea, United - they are prepared to throw huge amounts of money at achieving success. I know people argue that our owners should put more money in, but they own the club and it is their decision whether or not to do that, so there is no point in me saying 'Lewis should inject £500m to help us compete', for me that's his business not mine. (I know many will disagree with that, as is their prerogative. But in life I'm never one to try and spend other people's money). Liverpool are then in that top tier because in the last 5 years they have done similar to what we were doing a few years before, but they have done it better, bought the right players at the right time, won trophies, and to some degree it seems success breeds success, players want to come, your scouts are clearly selecting well etc. For me we could well have got there, but we failed to back Poch when he needed it, then we to some extent got unlucky by paying big money for duds like N'Dombele and Lo Celso, when on paper they looked like they would significantly improve us. Also we did get into a couple of cup finals that on another day we could have won (Liverpool were nothing special that night, and although Man City battered us earlier this year, we've beaten them enough times in recent years to know that we can do it on the right day, etc).

For me I don't expect the club to inject tons of their own cash into the club. I do think at times, now for example, a loan to the club for say 150m that is paid back over time, would have massive impact and could even get that money back in CL money over the years.

My issue is less with the spending overall and more with how it is spent.


So what is my expectation? Well, given that we've just built a new stadium, given that covid has impacted everyone, and given that Lewis doesn't want to bankroll big spending, personally for the next (say) 3 seasons I'd be delighted if we got at least 4th place every year, possibly challenging for the title one of those years (just being involved though, not winning it I very much doubt). Of course if we could pick up a cup in those 3 years that would be great, we're obviously long overdue, though as I said for me we've been incredibly unfortunate in that regard in the last 10 or so years. After 3 years, if the new stadium really cements us as bigger than we are now, then maybe I'd want more - though I'm always conscious that each year only one team can finish top of the EPL, we can't all win it...

I have similar expectations.

Obviously 'success' is a relative term and different for everyone, but if you look at the other 90ish clubs in the English leagues, how many of them consider it failure if their club doesn't win either a cup or their division every few years? Most clubs win nothing ever! Now I know we're not 'most clubs', we're much bigger than that, but for the reasons I've mentioned above, for me we're only in the '2nd tier', and so should not expect regular titles or trophies.

I get a little frustrated when I hear the "other clubs wish they had our success" I know you pull it back here and don't quite get there but that is a usual argument I hear which led me to this question because I think for some being better than Villa, Everton or Spurs of the 90's is good enough.

There you go, that's my take, roughly at least (I've not planned it, I've written it as it's come out, so some bits may be not be quite right, but near enough). By the way, I don't say any of the above to wind anyone up etc, it's just how I personally feel, and I absolutely respect if others feel differently.

These views all seem very reasonable and right on side with where I am so I don't get how you can be happy with ENIC and not see that they haven't provided us with anything that you want, show zero indication that they will provide that and in fact actively work against you getting those expectations you have.

On the other side of the coin, I do perhaps have a question for the naysayers - if we'd won the CL final that night, the Carabao earlier this year, and one FA Cup in the last (say) 10 years, would you all be happy, or happier, with ENIC, Levy etc, or is it not about success on the pitch?

Happier for sure, but far from happy with them.

If we won the CL and then didn't strengthen the team that would be insane. If we won Cups and still had the massive holes in the squad that we do now I wouldn't love it.

The Cups would make it easier to take but still wouldn't change the lack of quality in the squad.

It is also why if we back Conte in the summer but then don't after that or back Conte for 2 years but then go back to our normal ways after he leaves it won't be good enough.
 

Danboy Totter

Property Portfolio FC - ENIC FC TIL I DIE
Must say I'm pleasantly surprised to read that - I've always (perhaps lazily) assumed that you're one of the extremists who basically wants anyone who doesn't criticise ENIC to be kicked off the forum for not being real fans! Judging by what you've said above, you're not in that camp at all - so apologies for making invalid assumptions previously. I'm the same btw - I have a different opinion to you, but I respect yours, and try wherever I can to understand it better or find some common ground etc. :)
:dierpochhug:
 

Igula

#1 Supporter of Mason's Mates
So employing Conte and spending 50m more than Liverpool in the last five years - you missed all that?

Didn't miss it, it means nothing.

Hiring Conte and not bringing in the players he needs is moronic. That isn't a good move at all.

Spending 50m more than Liverpool but not buying players we need but instead buying players we can hope to sell at a later time for more money, isn't impressive.

FYI - Klopp on transfers "I’m not an idiot. It’s enough that I have a first and the last word - in the middle we can discuss. We want to discuss good players on the highest level. I’m not a genius. I need other people to get the perfect information. When we have this we will decide to sign or sell a player."

That's the same policy as Spurs have had for years, no surprise as it was an ex Spurs man Michael Edwards who put the Liverpool transfer committee in place, he's leaving them this summer.

Not a chance Levy breaks the record for GK to buy Alisson. Zero chance Levy pays a premium to bring VVD in from Southampton when they didn't want to sell. No chance Levy buys Jota when they already have players like Firmino, Mane, Salah. No chance Levy buys Thiago when he has no sell on value and cost 25m.

The Liverpool approach is not the Spurs approach which is why they have had success where we have not. They approach transfers from a financial and football perspective, we only look at it from a financial perspective.
 
I think it is great that you are answering the question and would love to hear from more folks with responses like this. I think trying to understand the issues each side has is much more effective than the insults that usually get thrown out from the Levy In side.




I think you are probably right here.

I classified it as 1a. City, United Chelsea the teams with money at levels of nobody else and 1b. Liverpool, Woolwich, Tottenham. Not as much money but certainly enough money to compete with those clubs, if not every year but certainly in the mix for top 4/Cups.




For me I don't expect the club to inject tons of their own cash into the club. I do think at times, now for example, a loan to the club for say 150m that is paid back over time, would have massive impact and could even get that money back in CL money over the years.

My issue is less with the spending overall and more with how it is spent.




I have similar expectations.



I get a little frustrated when I hear the "other clubs wish they had our success" I know you pull it back here and don't quite get there but that is a usual argument I hear which led me to this question because I think for some being better than Villa, Everton or Spurs of the 90's is good enough.



These views all seem very reasonable and right on side with where I am so I don't get how you can be happy with ENIC and not see that they haven't provided us with anything that you want, show zero indication that they will provide that and in fact actively work against you getting those expectations you have.



Happier for sure, but far from happy with them.

If we won the CL and then didn't strengthen the team that would be insane. If we won Cups and still had the massive holes in the squad that we do now I wouldn't love it.

The Cups would make it easier to take but still wouldn't change the lack of quality in the squad.

It is also why if we back Conte in the summer but then don't after that or back Conte for 2 years but then go back to our normal ways after he leaves it won't be good enough.
Yes, I'm on board with most of that. Just a couple of points:

I think trying to understand the issues each side has is much more effective than the insults that usually get thrown out from the Levy In side.
With respect, this is part of what we need to get away from. 'The Levy In side' are regularly accused of being bots, being on Levy's payroll, being ENIC fans not Spurs fans, etc - both sides throw out insults to each other, and we'd be better off without that from either side.

These views all seem very reasonable and right on side with where I am so I don't get how you can be happy with ENIC and not see that they haven't provided us with anything that you want, show zero indication that they will provide that and in fact actively work against you getting those expectations you have.
Aha, well that's an entirely different conversation. Expectations is one thing, how we go about getting there is another. I'll give a very brief answer though - of course neither ENIC nor Levy are perfect, no one is - and key mistakes do include failing to back Poch when necessary, and missing out on targets for the sake of a couple of million, amongst others. But overall I believe we are in a much better place than we were 20 years ago, for me best demonstrated by our average league position of the last 10 years compared to any previous decade. Given that I'd be happy with 4th place, are near enough on track to challenge for that, and have achieved that or better many times in the last 10 years, I can't really say they've let me down overall in that period.

Where do we go now though? Well, if we get one or two good players in this window, we could get 4th, and I'd be happy with that. Strengthen further in the summer, get 4th or better again next year, and I'd be happy with that. So for me at the moment, despite a couple of years of poor decisions most recently, overall they've done ok, and made a fantastic appointment recently, but the jury is out until we see what this and the next window will bring (and beyond). Bringing me onto your last point...

It is also why if we back Conte in the summer but then don't after that or back Conte for 2 years but then go back to our normal ways after he leaves it won't be good enough.
I agree - but Conte only arrived a few months ago, so we've not even seen one full transfer window yet, never mind a summer one. It's not easy though - given what I've said earlier about Lewis not adding funds, we can't spend City / Chelsea style, but even so I would hope that if we appointed Conte, we must have had some plan to back him somehow, and I want to see how that pans out, not just this window, and as you say, not even just this summer, but also in the coming years.

For me, ENIC / Levy have generally been positive for us for most of the last 20 years, but not so much the last 2/3 - so for me, their track record is sufficient to give them a bit more leeway before getting too upset with them.

Again, that's just how I look at it - any two human beings can look at the same scenario and see it completely differently, and that shouldn't have to mean we are enemies - I firmly believe above all else that 99.9% of people on this forum are Spurs fans through and through.
 
You know what I need a rant....

I'm in no way an ENIC or Levy apologist, let us be completely clear on that.

However, I genuinely wish that the Spurs fans who constantly whine, moan and greet their eyes out over the ownership would just fuck off. You are worse than, more odious than they will ever be.

Fuck off and support City or Liverpool. Or PSG. Just get yourselves to fuck.

I don't know how long you've supported this club, but I would much rather be in the position we're in now than the day they took over. We were a mess of a club, going absolutely nowhere. Constant bottom half finishes. Dross manager after dross manager. Players like Gary Doherty, Moussa Saib and Chris Perry. We'd won two cups in nearly 2 decades before Enic. We've won one in their two decades, which isn't good enough of course, but hardly a stick to beat them with, given the two decades before.

They've built an amazing infrastructure. We've witnessed some great years with genuinely good teams. They've fell short at the final hurdle, how many times? That's not all on the board.

They have been tight with money at times, there's no doubt, but they've also backed managers more than some like to admit.

The Bale money, all back into the squad. Just a shame it was mostly wasted. Spent big on Tanguy and Gio lately. Same with Sanchez.

You're just a bunch of entitled wanks, who seem to have no idea where they have taken us as a club. They are far from perfect, but it could have been much worse.

Are they beyond criticism? - Are they hell, but the levels of abuse and the like are way beyond the reality.

So, once again, if you're not happy, go to fuck and start supporting Liverpool or something.
No offence but I think fans who are happy with mediocrity and failure of our current owners should fuck off and support Woolwich. Such fans are gooner scum. NO OFFENCE!!
 
In 2006 our revenues per the Deloitte Money League were 104.5M Euro, compared with an average of the “Big Four” of 204.9M. So we had 51% of their average revenue, and were also behind Newcastle and only marginally ahead of Everton and (was surprised at this) City.

In 2021 our revenues were 445.7M, compared to an average of that same former Big Four of 499.2M. 89.3% of the average, massive closing of the gap and having leapfrogged Woolwich and drawn near level with Chelsea.

Our 2006 lineup:

Robinson
Stalteri King Dawson Lee
Lennon Carrick Davids Jenas
Defoe Keane

Our current lineup

Lloris
Romero Dier Davies
Royal Skipp Hojbjerg Reguilon
Lucas Kane Son

How much do we have to show for that massive revenue gain relative to our competition, really?
 
In 2006 our revenues per the Deloitte Money League were 104.5M Euro, compared with an average of the “Big Four” of 204.9M. So we had 51% of their average revenue, and were also behind Newcastle and only marginally ahead of Everton and (was surprised at this) City.

In 2021 our revenues were 445.7M, compared to an average of that same former Big Four of 499.2M. 89.3% of the average, massive closing of the gap and having leapfrogged Woolwich and drawn near level with Chelsea.

Our 2006 lineup:

Robinson
Stalteri King Dawson Lee
Lennon Carrick Davids Jenas
Defoe Keane

Our current lineup

Lloris
Romero Dier Davies
Royal Skipp Hojbjerg Reguilon
Lucas Kane Son

How much do we have to show for that massive revenue gain relative to our competition, really?
Who was the manager in 2006?
 
Most if not all.



Yes it 100% is on them that we make it to those SF's and Finals and don't have the team to compete. We are not the favorites because Levy does not invest in the team, does not back the managers.



Yes you can blame them for the Chelsea game because the fact that the option was play Son out of position or play dog shit Davies is the problem.

Having dogshit Lucas as the back-up for Kane is their fault.



No it isn't mentality or management it is a lack of quality player issue.

We didn't lose to Chelsea in the SF because of Conte's management we lost because our squad was miles behind them. Because we had to play multiple players that weren't close to good enough in our starting 11. With Son out we had zero quality attacking depth to replace him.

That is all on Levy.



Levy's lack of investment in the club has had a direct result in every single cup failure we have had.

It doesn't matter if ENIC are directly to blame for not getting to cup finals from SF's.

Because for 21 years they have sacked and hired the people who were to blame, if not ENIC themselves.

So the buck still stops with ENIC.

They are quite simply poor at football tradecraft. No buts, ifs or stupid whataboutery.
 
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For me, ENIC / Levy have generally been positive for us for most of the last 20 years, but not so much the last 2/3 - so for me, their track record is sufficient to give them a bit more leeway before getting too upset with them.

Again, that's just how I look at it - any two human beings can look at the same scenario and see it completely differently, and that shouldn't have to mean we are enemies - I firmly believe above all else that 99.9% of people on this forum are Spurs fans through and through.

Absolutely disagree.

Finance gains or not, their football managment has been awful.

You can probably identify 3-5 personel key appointments from 21 blooming years, of which at least one was bang on coincidence and luck (Rafa).

The rest of it has been distinctly high-mid-table spectrum and down to outright sporting and fiscal disasters (The Beatles 7 bar Eriksen, Ndombele, Rebrov, Sissoko and several handful of average-to-comedy level managers).
 
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