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Management Levy out?

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Levy Out?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Not sure. On the fence

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Incomplete_usernam said:
I don't think "the highest level" is the goal for ENIC, if they achieve that then obviously that's a bonus in their eyes but I think for our owners the goal is to make sure we continue to remain profitable and successful within the definitions of their own business model, I don't think winning trophies is of any importance to them, what is important is maintaining a successful and profitable business model.

Now I could be completely wrong, I am not suggesting my opinion is correct here and I think you're right when you say that they don't want us to lose games, that would just make no sense for them to want us to fail but I do question how much their business model actually benefits the supporters of the club in terms of seeing the team achieve silverware.

What do you think?
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Great post, but I personally think levy and enic are just parasites..
They only have an interest in money, us winning is good for business but seriously competing is not essential to the business plan they use.
So the actual investment and effort needed for that to happen is just a waste of money and effort to them.
Look how quickly liverpool overtook us after trailing in our wake, its not like they had to spend £300 million to achieve that goal..
But the Americans who own them clearly have a desire for success, as well as making money.
Who would of thought some yanks actually understand football and supporters better than some bloke apparently from Tottenham ..
You could not make this shit up.
Fuck levy and enic
 
Incomplete_usernam said:
I don't think "the highest level" is the goal for ENIC, if they achieve that then obviously that's a bonus in their eyes but I think for our owners the goal is to make sure we continue to remain profitable and successful within the definitions of their own business model, I don't think winning trophies is of any importance to them, what is important is maintaining a successful and profitable business model.

Now I could be completely wrong, I am not suggesting my opinion is correct here and I think you're right when you say that they don't want us to lose games, that would just make no sense for them to want us to fail but I do question how much their business model actually benefits the supporters of the club in terms of seeing the team achieve silverware.

What do you think?
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So if the board are just happy with say getting to the group stages of the CL, we win maybe a couple of games and draw one, but get knocked out. That’s us being quite successful and will add around £30m to our bottom line. I’d suggest they’d be happier if we won it and made around £70m. So I’m saying they want us to be as successful as possible.

As for the league, theres less of an issue there. I believe there was only a few million of a difference between what we made last season and what Liverpool and City made. So the board maybe care a bit less about that, as long as we get fourth.

I don’t think there’s a board in the world that doesn’t want their side to win trophies though. It adds so much more to the club and the bottom line than just the prize money. More TV revenue, higher attendances, bigger spend on club shop tat, foreign fans, etc.

And this is the wider board I’m talking about, not Levy. I believe Levy is as much a fan as the rest of us and would absolutely love us to win trophies. I’ve all the confidence in the world he’s doing what he can to get us there.
 
After seeing how we perform against quality opposition and given our obvious needs in some departments, I'm expecting to see some transfers in January. If this doesn't happen, then Levy and ENIC can be legitimately questioned about their ambitions.
 
pipes said:
So if the board are just happy with say getting to the group stages of the CL, we win maybe a couple of games and draw one, but get knocked out. That’s us being quite successful and will add around £30m to our bottom line. I’d suggest they’d be happier if we won it and made around £70m. So I’m saying they want us to be as successful as possible.

As for the league, theres less of an issue there. I believe there was only a few million of a difference between what we made last season and what Liverpool and City made. So the board maybe care a bit less about that, as long as we get fourth.

I don’t think there’s a board in the world that doesn’t want their side to win trophies though. It adds so much more to the club and the bottom line than just the prize money. More TV revenue, higher attendances, bigger spend on club shop tat, foreign fans, etc.

And this is the wider board I’m talking about, not Levy. I believe Levy is as much a fan as the rest of us and would absolutely love us to win trophies. I’ve all the confidence in the world he’s doing what he can to get us there.
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I believe you're correct in saying they would want us to win it and correct in saying they want us to be as successful as possible.

But my question to you is, is it imperative to their business plan? Do they view winning trophies as necessary in order to consider their business plan as successful? Or do they view them as a bonus If they were to happen and their main objective is to just make sure the club remains profitable for them as a business?

That's the key indicator for me about their ambitions as owners, I don't believe trophies ever will be imperative for their business plan, it's an added bonus if it happens and obviously they would celebrate it if it were to happen but they aren't willing to take risks in order for that to happen because it simply isn't a priority for them, the priority is maintaining a health profit for their business, again, I could be wrong but that's how I view it.

I have no doubt that every board would love to win trophies and again, I agree with you there because there is no downside to it.

However, I do believe that some boards prioritise winning them and make it a main objective and are willing to put heavy investment into doing so even if it means financial losses, I think that's where our owners differ from a club like Liverpool for example, I think ENIC are financially cautious and prioritise sensible business over lofty ambitions of sporting success.

Some will argue the stadium was sporting ambition, again, I sadly have to disagree with that notion, the stadium was a no brainer for ENIC imo, it allowed them to increase their property ownership, widen their portfolio into other events (concerts) and sports (NFL) and will eventually after years of increased profits, allow them to sell for a very large sum (if they ever decide to sell, they may not.)

Now again, I could be wrong but that's the way it seems to me.

Would you agree with that? Where do you see the club heading under the ownership of ENIC in the next 5 years?
 
Incomplete_usernam said:
I believe you're correct in saying they would want us to win it and correct in saying they want us to be as successful as possible.

But my question to you is, is it imperative to their business plan?

...

However, I do believe that some boards prioritise winning them and make it a main objective and are willing to put heavy investment into doing so even if it means financial losses, I think that's where our owners differ from a club like Liverpool for example, I think ENIC are financially cautious and prioritise sensible business over lofty ambitions of sporting success.
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That would be true, if only the club would then commit develop to a strategy of developing youth etc.

Instead, we have dozens and dozens of Nkodous, Sissokos, Lamelas, Auriers, Soldados, Chiriches' etc etc etc.

There is no clear strategy for development of the sporting side of the club.
 
Incomplete_usernam said:
I believe you're correct in saying they would want us to win it and correct in saying they want us to be as successful as possible.

But my question to you is, is it imperative to their business plan? Do they view winning trophies as necessary in order to consider their business plan as successful? Or do they view them as a bonus If they were to happen and their main objective is to just make sure the club remains profitable for them as a business?

That's the key indicator for me about their ambitions as owners, I don't believe trophies ever will be imperative for their business plan, it's an added bonus if it happens and obviously they would celebrate it if it were to happen but they aren't willing to take risks in order for that to happen because it simply isn't a priority for them, the priority is maintaining a health profit for their business, again, I could be wrong but that's how I view it.

I have no doubt that every board would love to win trophies and again, I agree with you there because there is no downside to it.

However, I do believe that some boards prioritise winning them and make it a main objective and are willing to put heavy investment into doing so even if it means financial losses, I think that's where our owners differ from a club like Liverpool for example, I think ENIC are financially cautious and prioritise sensible business over lofty ambitions of sporting success.

Some will argue the stadium was sporting ambition, again, I sadly have to disagree with that notion, the stadium was a no brainer for ENIC imo, it allowed them to increase their property ownership, widen their portfolio into other events (concerts) and sports (NFL) and will eventually after years of increased profits, allow them to sell for a very large sum (if they ever decide to sell, they may not.)

Now again, I could be wrong but that's the way it seems to me.

Would you agree with that? Where do you see the club heading under the ownership of ENIC in the next 5 years?
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So we agree that the board want us to be successful and win trophies. The only remaining question us how far they will speculate to accumulate? What level of risk will they take to ensure this?

We all know that trophies equal more money and more profit, so I would say they are a priority yes. But only because they lead to higher profits.

I‘d say risk in investment isn’t just based on the pitch. To allow us to compete at a higher level, we’ve spent hundreds of millions on a new stadium, training complex, etc. I imagine a portion of this would have went on players if we’d not done so. I think spending what we have on the infrastructure is a risk, it is speculating and it’s a higher total investment than Liverpool’s transfers and new stand.

One thing I do think we were mislead on was that the stadium build wouldn’t effect transfers and it obviously has. Otherwise, I’m right behind the investment strategy of the board to build a strong, constantly successful future and not a short term quick fix.
 
pipes said:
So we agree that the board want us to be successful and win trophies. The only remaining question us how far they will speculate to accumulate? What level of risk will they take to ensure this?

We all know that trophies equal more money and more profit, so I would say they are a priority yes. But only because they lead to higher profits.

I‘d say risk in investment isn’t just based on the pitch. To allow us to compete at a higher level, we’ve spent hundreds of millions on a new stadium, training complex, etc. I imagine a portion of this would have went on players if we’d not done so. I think spending what we have on the infrastructure is a risk, it is speculating and it’s a higher total investment than Liverpool’s transfers and new stand.

One thing I do think we were mislead on was that the stadium build wouldn’t effect transfers and it obviously has. Otherwise, I’m right behind the investment strategy of the board to build a strong, constantly successful future and not a short term quick fix.
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Little to none, and that's a big problem.
 
Of course in Ficklesville right next to Mouseville this is all on Levy.

I think he goes too far on occasions with his obvious love of the best deal at whatever the cost but we can't turn to him every time we lose.

We need players for absolute certain. Whether that be possible in January is debatable but only until then and omly whenwe have been through another round of Levyimg should we return to this slogan.
 
MVP said:
Little to none, and that's a big problem.
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Do you not consider investment in the infrastructure a risk? Or confirmation that we are speculating to accumulate?

I believe that the thought of playing in the new ground gives us access to players we wouldn’t have had in the old WHL. In addition we have a manager that is more highly regarded than any previous manager. And we are spending a pretty penny on him too.
 
pipes said:
Do you not consider investment in the infrastructure a risk? Or confirmation that we are speculating to accumulate?

I believe that the thought of playing in the new ground gives us access to players we wouldn’t have had in the old WHL. In addition we have a manager that is more highly regarded than any previous manager. And we are spending a pretty penny on him too.
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You mean the team? There is a certain risk in it of course. If we want trophies we either invest heavily or make sure that we set up our model in the best way possible. I don't think we are doing the latter, our scouting network is a joke.
 
MVP said:
You mean the team? There is a certain risk in it of course. If we want trophies we either invest heavily or make sure that we set up our model in the best way possible. I don't think we are doing the latter, our scouting network is a joke.
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No, not the team. I meant investment in the stadium, training ground, etc. Hundreds of millions spent and we MUST maintain a strong team to get that investment back. Look at that shower along the road as an example of where it can go wrong.

It’s a huge amount of money and a huge risk and it wasn’t done just to get fourth place every season. We have to be successful and profitable and that means trophies.
 
pipes said:
No, not the team. I meant investment in the stadium, training ground, etc. Hundreds of millions spent and we MUST maintain a strong team to get that investment back. Look at that shower along the road as an example of where it can go wrong.

It’s a huge amount of money and a huge risk and it wasn’t done just to get fourth place every season. We have to be successful and profitable and that means trophies.
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But we can't maintain a strong team without investment but that's what Levy expects. That belief has been compounded by Leicester winning the prem and ourselves getting to the CL final.
 
MVP said:
But we can't maintain a strong team without investment but that's what Levy expects. That belief has been compounded by Leicester winning the prem and ourselves getting to the CL final.
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We just spent over £100m a few months back. There’s a balance to be maintained too. Maybe the priority now is to finish top four and nothing else, but I can’t believe that’s the long term plan. We want trophies, they want profit. Both prongs of the same fork.
 
pipes said:
We just spent over £100m a few months back. There’s a balance to be maintained too. Maybe the priority now is to finish top four and nothing else, but I can’t believe that’s the long term plan. We want trophies, they want profit. Both prongs of the same fork.
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It is though, of course they will always try and push for more if possible but as long as they're top four they are happy. The same can't be said for supporters.
 
Incomplete_usernam said:
I don't think "the highest level" is the goal for ENIC, if they achieve that then obviously that's a bonus in their eyes but I think for our owners the goal is to make sure we continue to remain profitable and successful within the definitions of their own business model, I don't think winning trophies is of any importance to them, what is important is maintaining a successful and profitable business model.

Now I could be completely wrong, I am not suggesting my opinion is correct here and I think you're right when you say that they don't want us to lose games, that would just make no sense for them to want us to fail but I do question how much their business model actually benefits the supporters of the club in terms of seeing the team achieve silverware.

What do you think?
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That's what worrying. Some people genuinely believe ENIC/Levy have done all that's possible to get us titles & trophies. It's just all bad luck we never win much.
Also they don't understand the difference between want & willing to do what it takes.
 
John Thomas said:
What positives should we take from yesterday's performance and result mate?
What are we all missing here .
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That there's work to be done and Mourinho still needs to figure some things out and bring in some new blood. Basically what we knew before kickoff.

But you're always negative about this club, you dislike Levy far greater than you like Spurs it seems...you take no joy from the positive moments, and pile on the negative ones. Its football mate, just fucking smile.
 
Incomplete_usernam said:
Sincere question, if this appointment of Mourinho fails and we end up missing out on the top four and fail to win a trophy under him, is it time we seriously start looking at ENIC and Levy and asking questions about their competency as owners for providing success on the pitch and delivering silverware?
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I think there are two distinct questions.

1. Is our expenditure on the squad in line with industry standards?

We only find that stuff out through financial reports well after the fact, and the most recent reports cover some weird seasons on a number of levels, but numbers like this, if they become a trend, should be categorically unacceptable regardless of performance:


That is stealing from the supporters, period.

2. Are we using our financial resources wisely? Is the plan sensible?

After the initial teething phase for ENIC and the aborted Jacques Santini debacle, the club have generally speaking played a blinder in this regard. But it's an intensely competitive, ever-changing business. It may be that the practices that brought us past success are no longer suited to the future.

But because of the sound business strategy ENIC has pursued, we can be sure that we have a lot of resources to invest in making it work, so long as the club isn't robbed blind by its owners.
 
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