Maradona

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Guido 🇺🇦

"Legacy Fan"
Even Hoddle as well, i think some people forget or just don’t know how physical the game was back then , with the rules now I bet most games would finish 5 a side with the rest being sent off for dangerous tackles.
There was also the state of the pitches in those days too..........

article-2644118-0050F98700000258-745_634x423.jpg


That grass isn't far off from Hackney Marshes in the summer nowadays, for us having a kick about it's great compared to the boggy winter waterlogged ones (he would also have played on back then) but this was the best of the best they could be back then, the grass is long and the ground was hard as concrete. This wasn't an issue for Terry Butcher lumping it into row Z but for a baller, dribbling around an entire team to score, is the mark of a genius.

obituary-argentine-soccer-genius-maradona-saw-heaven-and-hell_large

Note Shilton's arm, half of it deep in two inches long grass???
 
Messi in terms of consistency is better but for pure natural brilliance and ingenuity Maradona is unrivalled I think. Remember the era he played in too, the pitches weren't carpets, the fouling was so much worse and he obviously was a lot more temperamental than Messi.

Messi has been absolutely amazing but Maradona had a swagger and a natural ability that I've never seen before or after.

Like you, I consider myself lucky enough to have seen both players, although obviously it was harder to watch Napoli in the mid eighties so didn't see anywhere near as much of Maradona's career as I have Messi's.

I think you have to balance out things like the pitches and the way a skilful player could be hacked about, with the sheer level of physical, tactical, mental superiority of modern football that Messi has had to play in, and lets not pretend Messi hasn't been subjected to a barrage of physical punishment too.

I'm not outraged that people would choose Maradona, I can understand why, it's hard to compare players from different eras, and these two are very comparable, and have very similar skill sets to compare, unlike the comparisons with people like Pele and Cruyff etc, who were totally different players.

And they both did it in what was the best/toughest league in Europe at their time (or at least for phases of their careers in Italy and Spain anyway). People will argue Messi got to play in a side with Iniesta, managed by Guardiola, but lets not ignore he continued to perform and produce amazing levels after both of those had gone.

Maybe one of the advantages Messi has given himself is that his private life has been stable and that has allowed a level of focused professionalism that enabled him to produce much more and much more consistently, I don't know, we'll never know the true impact of Maradona's private life had on his performances and output (although we've got a fair idea), but having seen both, and loved both, it's Messi for me, all day long.
 
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Airfixx

Death to petro-murder-ball sports-washing.
I'm not Lineker's biggest fan but I doubt it was his intention to offend here, I think he's Tweeted it without realising how bad it sounds!

As for Diego RIP, greatest ever IMV. Can see arguments for Messi et al. but I reckon Maradona had the higher ceiling and would flourish in the modern game too. Why? Better protection, the balance tilted in favour of the forward, more fouls given, and the rubbish defending everywhere nowadays.

Agreed. Crap joke or maybe a tribute wasn't the place for it, but as I understood he had found massive respect for Maradonna in the years that past 86..
 

Totti

⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐
There was also the state of the pitches in those days too..........

article-2644118-0050F98700000258-745_634x423.jpg


That grass isn't far off from Hackney Marshes in the summer nowadays, for us having a kick about it's great compared to the boggy winter waterlogged ones (he would also have played on back then) but this was the best of the best they could be back then, the grass is long and the ground was hard as concrete. This wasn't an issue for Terry Butcher lumping it into row Z but for a baller, dribbling around an entire team to score, is the mark of a genius.

obituary-argentine-soccer-genius-maradona-saw-heaven-and-hell_large

Note Shilton's arm, half of it deep in two inches long grass???

Whereas the pitch here looks pretty great for its time:

DRuyqwCUMAAyURV.jpg
 
There was also the state of the pitches in those days too..........

article-2644118-0050F98700000258-745_634x423.jpg


That grass isn't far off from Hackney Marshes in the summer nowadays, for us having a kick about it's great compared to the boggy winter waterlogged ones (he would also have played on back then) but this was the best of the best they could be back then, the grass is long and the ground was hard as concrete. This wasn't an issue for Terry Butcher lumping it into row Z but for a baller, dribbling around an entire team to score, is the mark of a genius.

obituary-argentine-soccer-genius-maradona-saw-heaven-and-hell_large

Note Shilton's arm, half of it deep in two inches long grass???
Only me that thinks those pitches look great?
 

Totti

⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐ ⭐
Like you, I consider myself lucky enough to have seen both players, although obviously it was harder to watch Napoli in the mid eighties so didn't see anywhere near as much of Maradona's career as I have Messi's.

I think you have to balance out things like the pitches and the way a skilful player could be hacked about, with the sheer level of physical, tactical, mental superiority of modern football that Messi has had to play in, and lets not pretend Messi hasn't been subjected to a barrage of physical punishment too.

I'm not outraged that people would choose Maradona, I can understand why, it's hard to compare players from different eras, and these two are very comparable, and have very similar skill sets to compare, unlike the comparisons with people like Pele and Cruyff etc, who were totally different players.

And they both did it in what was the best/toughest league in Europe at their time (or at least for phases of their careers in Italy and Spain anyway). People will argue Messi got to play in a side with Iniesta, managed by Guardiola, but lets not ignore he continued to perform and produce amazing levels after both of those had gone.

Maybe one of the advantages Messi has given himself is that his private life has been stable and that has allowed a level of focused professionalism that enabled him to produce much more and much more consistently, I don't know, we'll never know the true impact of Maradona's private life had on his performances and output, but having seen both, and loved both, it's Messi for me, all day long.

Some people really do overlook how much better football is now.

I went back and watched a game from the mid 00s in the Premier League between Utd and Chelsea, the two best teams in the league and it was actually laughable at how poor it was compared to today's standards.

It had the likes of Rooney, Ronaldo, Lampard, Drogba etc managed by Mourinho and Ferguson. Yet football today is better.

Football is always getting better. Maybe the personalities etc aren't as entertaining but coaching etc is on a different level nowadays. Its the same with all sports though, natural advancement etc.

Nostalgia is one hell of a thing though.
 
I will guarantee you the pitch at WHL (and all other grounds of the era) didn't look like that after the first handful of games into the season.

Nothing like a decent training ground in sunny Naples................................



Having said that, I seem to remember that our groundsman regularly won awards for the pitch in the eighties/nineties didn't they ? Am I remembering that wrong?
 
Some people really do overlook how much better football is now.

I went back and watched a game from the mid 00s in the Premier League between Utd and Chelsea, the two best teams in the league and it was actually laughable at how poor it was compared to today's standards.

It had the likes of Rooney, Ronaldo, Lampard, Drogba etc managed by Mourinho and Ferguson. Yet football today is better.

Football is always getting better. Maybe the personalities etc aren't as entertaining but coaching etc is on a different level nowadays. Its the same with all sports though, natural advancement etc.

Nostalgia is one hell of a thing though.
It's the same with most technical sports.

The coaching and back room support is exponentially better and these guys are finely tuned to a degree simply impossible back in the day.
 

HampshireSpur

🇺🇦
Some people really do overlook how much better football is now.

I went back and watched a game from the mid 00s in the Premier League between Utd and Chelsea, the two best teams in the league and it was actually laughable at how poor it was compared to today's standards.

It had the likes of Rooney, Ronaldo, Lampard, Drogba etc managed by Mourinho and Ferguson. Yet football today is better.

Football is always getting better. Maybe the personalities etc aren't as entertaining but coaching etc is on a different level nowadays. Its the same with all sports though, natural advancement etc.

Nostalgia is one hell of a thing though.
It’s not always nostalgia at play when making such judgments.
Would 1986 Maradona be the best forward in the world now? No.
Would a 2020 Maradona raised in modern conditions be? Quite possibly.
Ultimately such factors make comparing across eras a bit of a fool’s errand. Of course we are all entitled to our view on who the greatest was or is.
 
It's the same with most technical sports.

The coaching and back room support is exponentially better and these guys are finely tuned to a degree simply impossible back in the day.

Had that fruitless discussion over and over and over again, where many nostalgic fans keep referring to Teddy and Gazza and the dentists chair. After all, they were still pretty good at football, aye?

Well sure, but imagine how much better with todays coaching methods, nutrition, recovery and mentality specialists around.
 
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