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And precisely 0% of the goals scored at the Bet365 Stadium
Never scored against Chelsea?
He was, but now he's gone all hipster he's lost his edge...
It's all about Maradona anyway. The money spent on these elite teams makes it easier for the likes of Ronnie and Messi imo
It's all about Maradona anyway. The money spent on these elite teams makes it easier for the likes of Ronnie and Messi imo
''Lost his edge''
Maradona won the World Cup in '78 over the Netherlands who were missing their best player in a tournament hosted by Argentina's military dictatorship. He won the World Cup in '86 by blatantly cheating and punching the ball into the back of the net. In terms of his club success, Barcelona bought him for a world record fee, and then Napoli bought him for a world record fee in the midst of a massive spending spree, and ultimately he won 2 Italian titles and no European Cups. He was an amazing player, I'm sure (obviously wasn't around to watch him in his prime, so all I have to go on his highlights), but I think it's really unfair to dismiss Messi's achievements because of the money poured into Barca and praise Maradona as though the money in his day didn't matter.
I saw both Maradona and Messi.
Maradona was incredible. Different era and all that, but he was something else. A true great that deserves all the accolades he receives.
Messi is better. I don’t care if he hasn’t won Argentina a World Cup. He performed a miracle simply by getting them to a final with an average team. The CL is now the hardest football competition on Earth because it’s against the combined best players, and Messi is bossing it.
You put them in the same team in their prime, Maradona creates a lot of goals for Messi.
Lot of people say that Maradona was a cheat, yet fail to acknowledge he was probably the most cheated player against to have ever played the game. He was hacked to pieces in an era when players could launch a two footed challenge and not even concede a Free Kick. You don't see Messi (who is the best player of today) have to put up with that.
A lot of it is nostalgia if i'm honest, and Maradona stood out against the rest so was head and shoulders above all the others. I don't feel that way about Messi, although you could argue the quality is higher generally. We'll never really know in fairness will we? But for an Englishmen to say he's a the best ever when he put us out of a WC? Not really sure what that even means, but the night he did the hand of god I was ten, and I was wearing a Maradona Argentina shirt that very night hah! I was on holiday in Mallorca with my family at the time.
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Messi is still fouled a hell of a lot.
unfair to dismiss messi but you do exactly the same to maradona.
Maradona didn't play in the 78 WC. He was their best player in 82 despite being targetted for rough treatment in every game - see belgium and italy (gentile), but the team was in poor form. In 86 he was incredible form start to finish. fuck the handball, argentina bossed England in that game, bar the last 10mins. In 90 despite being ravaged by coke and injuries he still helped an average side through to the final.
His club career is incredibly short. He was an incredible talent in argentina, and was doing well at barcelona until he had his leg broken by a shocking challenge. Goichochea has his boots from the challenge he made on his mantle piece. He came back from that led Napoli to glory they'd never had in their history before and since. He moved for a massive amount of cash in those days but totally met the expectation - how often does that happen. 3 odd years there and his playing career is essentially over. Messi has been at the top for 10 years (more than Maradona's post Boca career ) which is incredible.
You can't really compare the generations.
The modern day player draws a foul, he's protected and will get his foul, the opposing player barely needs to touch and as we have all seen so much of the contact nowadays is from the attacking player initiating it (all players look for this), IMO this is the biggest difference from Messi's day to Maradona's. (The only time he was left without anyone laying a hand on him was his dribble against England who all blew kisses to him as he went past).
I love Messi, he's a genius and is the best player of his generation, pisses on plastic face, but Maradona was better as he dealt with literally violence against him (go checkout his Barcelona day videos, the Copa del Ray final being an absolute classic for all the wrong reasons), the pitches he played on were rough as shit. He transcended the teams he played in, lifted the whole teams performance and carried mediocre teams on his shoulders. Messi has never had to do that, his Argentine squad has talent in all positions but he looks ordinary in it. From the day he made his debut for Barca they have been one of the greatest teams in the World with quality in every position.
BUT I urge you to watch this, or any highlight real of Maradona's for that matter. I'd be so bold as to say 80% of the attempted tackles to get the ball off him are yellow cards, the others reds.
I like this vid, apart from the appalling music, you can see time and again the physicality he was up against, don't focus on him, focus on the oppo.
Tournaments like the Champions League?
The CL is now, and has been for a very long time, the highest quality competition on the planet. The last time the World Cup was, was probably 1998. The cost of expanding and expanding the competition.
There are many greats that never won an international tournament. Cruyff, Best, Zico, Puskas, Eusebio, Maldini. Being the best player ever, is about being the best PLAYER ever. It's attributes, what you can do with the ball. Many a shithouse has a won a World Cup.
That's simply not true. The year before his debut Barcelona were in crisis, finishing 6th, 22 points behind Real Madrid. Messi, with Guardiola, has been the catalyst for the greatest club side in the history of the game reaching their peaks. Messi was established as one of the best in the world as a teenager, Maradona not until his early 20's.
Also, there is no doubting what Maradona brought Napoli, but let's no pretend he did it alone and instantly. Napoli spent money on their squad and didn't win the title until Maradona's 3rd season with them and he was in his prime at age 26.
Messi has dominated League and Continental football for over a decade, since he was a teenager (I remember a teenage Messi running Stamford Bridge in the CL). Maradona had an incredible peak of maybe 4-5 years where he was untouchable. But then, so did Ronaldinho.
It depends on what you value, those high peaks where Maradona produced greatness or the longevity of Messi, who has been at the top of the game for over 12 years now.
This idea that international football determines football greatness is nonsense. How does a period of 6-7 games, every 2 years determine the greatness and not the hundreds of higher quality football inbetween?
Messi dominates club football like Maradona never did. That's the higher standard of football, and the most played football.
As for the comment on the Argentina side, they aren't what you seem to think they are, they're an average international side that Messi has lead to 4 international finals (more than Maradona) and has had consistently awful managers and Gonzalo Higuain. Who, if he could finish his dinner would see Argentina as current World and Copa America champions.
People overrate what Maradona did making Argentina World Champions. Whilst it is indeed an incredible achievement, Ronaldo did the exact same thing for Brazil, and if it wasn't for a seizure, probably would have done so twice. He also lead Brazil to 2 Copa Americas. Yet, his international achievements don't put him above Maradona? Why? He was just as good at club level as Maradona? Won trophies everywhere. Scored more goals in less games.
Ronaldo is also better than Maradona in my opinion.
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Don't fool yourself. The 1986 WC is what made Maradona the legendary figure he is today, if he hadn't won that, then he wouldn't even have a quarter of the recognition he gets today. The 1970 WC also made Pele. 1998 WC made Zidane. 1988 Euros gave Gullit and Van Basten that legendary status, they have today.
In France, Platini is considered one of the greatest players to come out of that country but he's never held in a higher regard than Zidane because Platini had never won the WC, where as Zidane has. This isn't what I support or believe, but history judges players based on their international contributions, hate it or not.
Ok, but then why is Cruyff rated higher than Van Basten and Gullit then?
Yes, I agree about the Maradona thing, but see above, where I've compared his achievements to Ronaldo. His achievements pale in comparison. Yet, Maradona is more esteemed. The romance of Maradona, the hand, the slaloming goal, the God of Argentina, clouds the fact he wasn't that player for the 12 years that Messi has been and only won major trophies in a 6 year period. What a period it was, granted, but being that good for 12 years is a far harder achievement. Being the best in the world at 19 through to 30 is insane.
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I would say Cruyff is the only exception to the rule, although he has reached 2 WC Finals.
The reason why players like Maradona are so respected/honored because of the nature of the WC. It is the biggest platform in football, where everyone watches, and it is a very difficult platform to be successful in. At the WC, you no longer play with the best players your club spent over the fortune for but rather a weakened limited team, so for any player, it is far harder.
Slightly off topic, but it is absolutely criminal that the 80s French team never won the WC. Such a shame, they can't beat Germany in a WC, to save their lives.