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Player Micky van de Ven

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Steve73 said:
I don't know (nor do any of us) but I guess that conversations with the medical team are fluid and taking place most days and not just out of the blue.
He's already said the plan wasn't to play him beyond 60 minutes but the Romero injury changed things.

I don't think the medical team said 'he's not fit to play' and Ange said 'fuck it he's playing'. Not for a minute.

I get people don't think he's a good manager but I don't understand why it gets so personal or why every little thing is used to criticise him when we don't have the info one way or another. He's told us the info, I really don't think he's lying.

They're not about to all be sacked.
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Not really sure why injury to Romero should change the plan re VDV - it doesn’t change your concerns re the state of his fitness or ability to go beyond 60 mins.

I’ve got some sympathy for the guy as the recruitment team didn’t provide him with a back up left back or LCB who could cover in the summer.
 
JimothyCF14 said:
It's not personal. I just think he rushed our best defender too quickly from injury and it backfired. What's really boiled the piss is it was risky move when we're already thin on the ground and now we're down to one senior centre back.

I'm sorry he's the manager of a Premier league football club which is struggling. He's going to get criticism like any other football manager at a club which is struggling. It comes with the territory. It's tough tits really.
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Work away, I have no problem with criticism or different points of view, we all have opinions and this is just a forum after all, what any of us have to say has no bearing on anything (apart from ourselves of course). I neither know the manager nor anyone connected to him, I'm just a Spurs fan like you.

The point was more the implication that out of nowhere the medical team said he's fit to play or that he wasn't but Ange said fuck it you're playing anyway. There's literally nothing to back either of those scenarios up and when you consider the structure of a club, the staff will be having daily discussions on the players and their readiness to play. Criticise him all you want for stuff (and there's plenty to criticise him about) but we don't have to invent very unlikely scenarios to do it.

I get the frustration with the injury completely, no one will be more frustrated than Ange, it's gonna hurt the team. I just think it's fine margins and I also think if he had taken him off at 60 minutes he would've got hammered for that too by some people.

Let's hope it is 2 or 3 weeks only but I have my doubts from my own personal experience with hamstring injuries.
 
bus-conductor said:
Not really sure why injury to Romero should change the plan re VDV - it doesn’t change your concerns re the state of his fitness or ability to go beyond 60 mins.

I’ve got some sympathy for the guy as the recruitment team didn’t provide him with a back up left back or LCB who could cover in the summer.
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Because Drag and Romero is still pretty solid but Drag and Gray is not, one a young and inexperienced CB, the other a teenage midfielder in his first season in the Prem being asked to play out of position against one of the best teams in the league in a game we were very much still in. Against a hated rival too.

Hindsight is great but I can see the reasons why he did what he did. If he'd taken VDV off after 60 minutes can many of us, hand on heart, honestly say we wouldn't have been a bit pissed off and vented? I probably would've and some on here would still be hammering him for it now.
 
Had a bad feeling the season was in the toilet when he first got injured.

Now... just don't see any way back from this. Fucking hell
 
JimothyCF14 said:
If thats true, if the medical really said that suddenly out of nowhere after a long layoff that VdV was 100% to play and attempt the full 90 without being gradually reintegrated to full training, then they all need sacked too.
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Our medical team are shit but not that shit. Managers put pressure on players and medical departments all the time to get players to play. It’s what will have happened here surely?
 
Steve73 said:
Because Drag and Romero is still pretty solid but Drag and Gray is not, one a young and inexperienced CB, the other a teenage midfielder in his first season in the Prem being asked to play out of position against one of the best teams in the league in a game we were very much still in. Against a hated rival too.

Hindsight is great but I can see the reasons why he did what he did. If he'd taken VDV off after 60 minutes can many of us, hand on heart, honestly say we wouldn't have been a bit pissed off and vented? I probably would've and some on here would still be hammering him for it now.
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You make a valid point. I'm a bit surprised he decided to risk both TBH. Surely he could have started Drag and VDV? Then give Romero the last 20 if needed? Or swap him out for VDV on 50?

Bottom line, the recruitment has left him high and dry here, and not just at LCB, but LB and the forward areas. To not have a single back up LCB or LB is piss poor, especially after what happened last season, knowing Davies can't really play a high line or as a LB/Mid
 
Hate to say it, but we need to get rid. You need a solid pairing that can play 95% of games. This guy is going to be like this for ever now.

Just when we need him, we can’t rely on him - it will ever be thus unfortunately
 
Don't run players into the ground and put them in a situation where they have to constantly overexert themselves.

The amount of injuries is ridiculous, what the fuck do they have them doing in training?

Also make sure we have adequate cover. If you're building a team that wants to play out the back, it's probably a good idea to get a back up CB who can actually pass the fucking ball.
 
Health is not a binary concept. It's on a spectrum, ranging from minor aches to full-blown injuries that make the player in question totally unsuitable to play. So the question is where VdV (and Romero) was on that spectrum entering into game. Imposible to know for sure, but since both went down at the same game I'm inclined to assume that they were closer to having full-blown injuries that never really healed. And this doesn't have to be all on medical staff either. Some symptoms are unobservable from an outside perspective, you need to take the person's word for it. You can never (dis)prove how much pain one feels for example. If they say they're hurting, even if there's nothing observable in the x-ray or whatever, you need to take their word for it. And players falling behind or staying ahead of their recovery schedule is common. So I wouldn't blame medical staff for clearing them to play, even if average recovery schedule for that particular injury makes it unlikely that they actually fully recovered.

I don't know if any party deserves the entire blame here to be honest. At least until we get more information. Players play through (minor) injuries all the time. They hate to be sidelined, or they feel like they're letting their teammates down by sitting. Sometimes it causes permanent damage to the extent that their careers are cut short because of it. It's quite possible that VdV and Romero pushed themselves for the good of the team. I also wouldn't past it Ange to ask (read:demand) them to play. Managers, especially ones feeling under pressure, are quite known for doing this. My point is that it doesn't have to be an either/or.

Decision making process in groups, especially if the parties involved are closely associated, do not usually involve fierce bickering. They work more like echo chambers where the initial (wrong) opinion is further reinforced by all parties in the cycle, with lots of make-believe and wishful thinking involved. I'm not sure, but this seems like such a case to me.
 
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John Duncan said:
See my previous post : medics employed by the club can only advise the club / manager / player : once those messages have been taken on board and the the club / mgr / player have chosen to ignore it ; there’s nothing else that can stop anyone from playing despite their injury/ injuries.

Medics could have been saying: 5 wks further rehab and a gentle re-introduction in early Jan .

The club , Micky and Ange were well within their rights to dismiss that advice. For whatever reason.

It’s a fact .

NB: No longer applies to head injuries.
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If Ange ignored the medical department and played VDV anyway, IMO that’s a sackable offense on its own. And I’m still Ange IN.

Based on his quotes in the press conference, that’s not what went down though.he was basically saying that we need to do things differently in our medical department because players are consistently breaking down after returning from injury.

If I was guessing, there is probably a very common practice that we don’t do at this club for some half baked, bullshit ethical reason. Something like recovery peptides or outright HGH injections. No doubt Liverpool have been doing it for years. Salah’s injury record is beyond freakish. Mane NEVER got hurt at Liverpool either.
 
bus-conductor said:
Not really sure why injury to Romero should change the plan re VDV - it doesn’t change your concerns re the state of his fitness or ability to go beyond 60 mins.

I’ve got some sympathy for the guy as the recruitment team didn’t provide him with a back up left back or LCB who could cover in the summer.
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That last point is fucking ridiculous negligence. Knowing he has hammy issues and not getting extra cover?

Especially when you consider that our main left back is young and also recovering from a major operation in the summer and you don’t have back up for him either… you can resign Spence and act like it’s all good but he’s a right back and it’s pointless if your coaching staff don’t want to play him at LB.

What’s so criminal is that any idiot like several of us on this forum could see that this summer.

Resign Werner
Don’t sign cover for physically delicate LCB and LB…

Levynomics at its very best
 
Richard Arlison said:
That last point is fucking ridiculous negligence. Knowing he has hammy issues and not getting extra cover?

Especially when you consider that our main left back is young and also recovering from a major operation in the summer and you don’t have back up for him either… you can resign Spence and act like it’s all good but he’s a right back and it’s pointless if your coaching staff don’t want to play him at LB.

What’s so criminal is that any idiot like several of us on this forum could see that this summer.

Resign Werner
Don’t sign cover for physically delicate LCB and LB…

Levynomics at its very best
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The mental thing is, exactly the same thing happened this time last season. Injuries and suspensions all over the place.

Knowing Levy and the board they’d have thought lightning wont strike twice rather than properly planning for a long season.
 
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