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Player Micky van de Ven

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FOK said:
Ange said both were slow burners and we were being very careful with them, I’d say after Chelsea that’s understandable.

He specifically stated mickey had not had a set back or re injured himself so are we now saying Ange straight up lied to everyone?
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Depends, is VDV in full training and just building his condition as Ange claimed? If he's absent from training and back with the medics then yeah, he's had a setback and Ange lied.

I think we are at the point where we can't really take Ange's word seriously on injuries because it's a genuine reputational risk for him to be honest at this point. The amount of muscle injuries, the amount of re-injuries, continually changing recovery dates, the multiple times he has admitted to risking unfit players, it's total incompetence from him. He will never get another job in a decent league after everything that's gone on.
 
FOK said:
Ange said both were slow burners and we were being very careful with them, I’d say after Chelsea that’s understandable.

He specifically stated mickey had not had a set back or re injured himself so are we now saying Ange straight up lied to everyone?
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Still bugs the fuck out of me.

Ange brings them both back early, then one gets injured early, then Ange decides to totally ignore medical advice when instructed to play the other one for no more then 60 minutes, then the other one gets injured, then shortly after the medical team gets sacked, then neither player seems very intersted in returning....


and now he starts talking about "slow burners".
 
kingdawson said:
Still bugs the fuck out of me.

Ange brings them both back early, then one gets injured early, then Ange decides to totally ignore medical advice when instructed to play the other one for no more then 60 minutes, then the other one gets injured, then shortly after the medical team gets sacked, then neither player seems very intersted in returning....


and now he starts talking about "slow burners".
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The medical team weren't sacked during this season mate. That guy who gave quotes for his revenge piece left in the summer. The current medical team and all the jobs advertised this season were all part of a revamp of the whole sports science department that had been planned since the end of Conte.
 
Block252 said:
So you think vdv would play against elfsborg but has refused to play in a semi final at anfield and possibly against united. Just walk me through the logic there
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Yes happy to walk you through the logic. I will even break it down into process steps to really help you demystify the logic...
1. When I came on to the VDV thread this morning there was lots of comments about him and Romero refusing to play or being scared to play.
2. To be very clear, none of the comments were added by me
3. I decided to respond to these comments but stating that there was an easy way to shut this down. Whilst I don't expect either VDV or Romero to be available Sunday, based on what our manager has been saying I do expect both to play next week away to Ipswich or at least on the bench. That's a full 13 days since Villa Cup exit. Anything else and there is something amiss.
4. Now, something amiss might be that the players have re-injured themselves but the club need to be transparent about that and stop with the "slow burner" comments
5. Most important you said that I "think vdv would play against elfsborg but has refused to play in a semi final at anfield and possibly against united" - Where did I say that? I merely pointed out that if both are refusing to play then we better not be paying them. The key word here is "if" - If means that I am not sure this is true but if it is then we should not be paying them

To summarise: I can't walk you through logic on things I haven't said... but I can walk you through logic of what did occur in the hope you take a bit more time to consider the full context before sniping away.
 
He can sit out the rest of the season for all I care, he's not the difference between winning EL and getting knocked out by the odd team somewhere down the road. Angeball has been in shambles for months anyway. No matter how important he might be to it, he's not the almighty saviour that some people think/hope he is.

IF he is inherently fragile as a player, if he can't handle a great amount of workload without regularly breaking down in the process, then he'll be reduced to a squad player. Simple as that. How good he actually is when healthy is irrelevant, other than leaving us ponder on what could have been.
 
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BJK said:
He can sit out the rest of the season for all I care, he's not the difference between winning EL and getting knocked out by the odd team somewhere down the road. Angeball has been in shambles for months anyway. No matter how important he might be to it, he's not the almighty saviour that some people think/hope he is.

IF he is inherently fragile as a player, if he can't handle a great amount of workload without regularly breaking down in the process, then he'll be reduced to a squad player. Simple as that. How good he actually is when healthy is irrelevant, other than leaving us ponder on what could have been.
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Romero and VDV are absolutely the difference between winning EL or not. They are a much bigger factor than Ange or any manager.
 
manmountainbutters said:
Not true

New manager bounce could be huge at this club

And you’re ignoring the fact Ange is part of why Romero and VdV are out

Levy and Ange are the problems at Spurs
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Players win games not coaches.

Levy and Ange don't put their boots on and play. We are probably 70-80% more likely to win EL with VDV and Romero in our team than without them. Not 70-80% likely to win but they are the difference between being 30% likely to win it and 40% likely to win it. That's a big difference.
 
We are more likely to wi
Richard Arlison said:
Players win games not coaches.

Levy and Ange don't put their boots on and play. We are probably 70-80% more likely to win EL with VDV and Romero in our team than without them. Not 70-80% likely to win but they are the difference between being 30% likely to win it and 40% likely to win it. That's a big difference.
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we are more likely to win the EL if they are fit and motivated I agree

However the new manager bounce is a real thing. Can be seen in the data. And I’d suggest Ange is so damaging that there could be really quite a big bounce at Spurs, coinciding with the latter stages of the EL
 
Richard Arlison said:
Players win games not coaches.

Levy and Ange don't put their boots on and play. We are probably 70-80% more likely to win EL with VDV and Romero in our team than without them. Not 70-80% likely to win but they are the difference between being 30% likely to win it and 40% likely to win it. That's a big difference.
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That's 33% more likely mate.

But also about 1% chance of this lot winning the EL. Might still be fun though
 
StripiestPilot said:
Depends, is VDV in full training and just building his condition as Ange claimed? If he's absent from training and back with the medics then yeah, he's had a setback and Ange lied.

I think we are at the point where we can't really take Ange's word seriously on injuries because it's a genuine reputational risk for him to be honest at this point. The amount of muscle injuries, the amount of re-injuries, continually changing recovery dates, the multiple times he has admitted to risking unfit players, it's total incompetence from him. He will never get another job in a decent league after everything that's gone on.
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If I'm totally honest, it's much simpler than this.

The injury excuse is keeping him in the job and he's hiding behind it. The more he can use that excuse the longer he will have in the job.

Don't be surprised if this cluster of players due to come back, only 1 or 2 actually return.

I think he's also realised that even with players back they won't be 100% and they are at higher risk of re-injury which means his high press and intensity tactic is out the window. The passive low/mid block we have been playing recently is too easy to play against as there is very little organisation because he's not really familiar with coaching that style of play.
 
Silvio Dante said:
That's 33% more likely mate.
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I didn't do that maths to that level, just an eyeball but now that we are going into it, 80% more of 30 is 54. So by my own made up percentages, VDV and Romero take us from 30% likely to win EL to 54% likely to win it.

Silvio Dante said:
But also about 1% chance of this lot winning the EL. Might still be fun though
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Even with the squad in it's broken, injured, overplayed state we have more than 1% chance. Tbh i think 30% sounds about right as a guess.
 
manmountainbutters said:
We are more likely to wi

we are more likely to win the EL if they are fit and motivated I agree
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Why wouldn't they be motivated? Players want to win the EL, it's an amazing trophy to have on your CV

manmountainbutters said:
However the new manager bounce is a real thing. Can be seen in the data.
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What does the data say? and how long does new manager bounce last in the data? 1 game? max 2? That doesn't win you the EL from here.

manmountainbutters said:
And I’d suggest Ange is so damaging that there could be really quite a big bounce at Spurs, coinciding with the latter stages of the EL
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I said after Villa that they had to replace him this week of they wanted to give a new manager a chance to implement anything significant before the EL starts again. They haven't done that so now we just have to hope that players do come back from injury and stay back.
 
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