Midfield whats the solution

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More Lo Celso and Ndombele. Less Winks and Sissoko.

Tonight we saw a Winks, Sissoko, Lucas situation, one that probably has a grand total of what 5-7 assists over the last 75 games? 5 assists across a collective 225 games I'm going to guess, hence the lack of service to those that can turn key passes into goals.

Keep Winks in there, add Ndombele for Sissoko and bring Lo Celso in for Lucas and give this time to breathe.
 
Tonight we saw a Winks, Sissoko, Lucas situation, one that probably has a grand total of what 5-7 assists over the last 75 games? 5 assists across a collective 225 games I'm going to guess, hence the lack of service to those that can turn key passes into goals.

Keep Winks in there, add Ndombele for Sissoko and bring Lo Celso in for Lucas and give this time to breathe.

Have we gone

Kane
Son Dele Lo Celso
Ndombele Whoever

One single time yet? That's the attack we scouted and paid for in the summer.
 
Have we gone

Kane
Son Dele Lo Celso
Ndombele Whoever

One single time yet? That's the attack we scouted and paid for in the summer.

That's the midfield/ attack I'd go for yes. The question is how many minutes have we seen all of those on at the same time in any given game? I genuinely wouldn't be shocked if that number was 0 which is the issue we face. Half way through a season and I actually don't think I've seen a mid/forward line that resembles that yet.
 
The weird thing is I don't think Winks or Sissoko are bad players per'se. They just are not holding players and never will be, the two together in one player might be useful though! Winks is very much a metronome player and would suit a continental game, particularly Italy. Sissoko is an energy player and all bustle so has his uses as someone to break play up and close a game down. They just don't fit our current starting system.

If we can get Dier into good shape we can form a decent midfield even with Winks and Sissoko. The problem is when those two are asked to replicate what Dier and Dembele used to do, which is fucking mad. It’s what got Poch the sack and is the main reason we have been shit for a year.
 
4-2-3-1 is the way to go but the 3 behind Kane need to be tactically aware. They need to drop into midfield when we're outnumbered there.
 
Totally agree it's either just try what we have (skipp-dier-winks for me) and /or it does work (and love winks, see a lot on skipp, and Eric dier loves me..) but someone. (and please please please. A right back who can run. And cross.)
 
Have we gone

Kane
Son Dele Lo Celso
Ndombele Whoever

One single time yet? That's the attack we scouted and paid for in the summer.

I've asked many people yet not had one answer.... GLC as RW? Why/how/when etc.?

Literally everyone in the summer spoke of GLC as a #8/#10.

...I'm convinced we bought:

TN / Winks / GLC

....but what with Ndombele being a bit of a let down in terms of mobility and GLC's false-starts, Poch got left scratching his arse.
 
It's quite impressive how we have managed to collect so many midfielders that can't actually tackle and pass a ball forwards to a team mate
 
It's quite impressive how we have managed to collect so many midfielders that can't actually tackle and pass a ball forwards to a team mate
I think Poch wanted DMs to play possession ball and not make any mistakes. So Jose needs time to break that. Or at least identify who can and can’t play the way he wants. I think he partly played Sissoko and Winks tonight to see if they had what it takes
 
In the Premier League & Champions League:


Last 4 seasons with us.....2 assists (average of 0.5 assists per season)


4th season with us.... 11 assists (averages just over 2.5 assists per season)


Last 4 seasons with us..... 11 assists (average of just over 2.5 assists per season)


Last 4 seasons with us......11 assists (average of just over 2.5 assists per season)


3 seasons with us..... 10 assists (average of 3.3 assists per season)


2.5 seasons with us.....4 assists (average of 1.5-1.75 assits per season)



All in all we have crucial positions who simply put don't create enough for others. This, coinciding with an ageing defence sees us score less and ship more.

These 6 guys on average contributed what one Liverpool Full Back did in assists last season, not even their best full back either.
 
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In the PL & CL:


Last 4 seasons with us.....2 assists (average of 0.5 assists per season)


4th season with us.... 11 assists (averages just over 2.5 assists per season)


Last 4 seasons with us..... 11 assists (average of just over 2.5 assists per season)


Last 4 seasons with us......11 assists (average of just over 2.5 assists per season)


3 seasons with us..... 10 assists (average of 3.3 assists per season)


2.5 seasons with us.....4 assists (average of 1.5-1.75 aissts per season)



All in all we have crucial positions who simply put don't create enough for others. This, coinciding with an ageing defence sees us score less and ship more.

Bit harsh on Winks & Sissoko to consider them crucial in creativity terms considering how we've been set up.
 
Bit harsh on Winks & Sissoko to consider them crucial in creativity terms considering how we've been set up.

For me a midfielder adds assists and goals. If it's because we are set up for them not to do so or to do so is a different thing altogether mate but ultimately I see it being an issue. As you've mentioned though that could easily not be down to them but if they aren't there to create in the current season especially and our full backs don't in healthy doses then who is?

This brings me to my next question.... do we to heavily rely on 2-3 players and does this allow others to go hiding a fair bit? I'd love to see the CM and FB assist numbers from the last few seasons of all top 10 clubs to see how our boys compare. Winksy is a lovely little footballer, surely he is better than 0.5 assists per season and if he is is that down to the player or the old gaffer? Tricky issues the new boss faces if it ain't the latter.
 
For me a midfielder adds assists and goals. If it's because we are set up for them not to do so or to do so is a different thing altogether mate but ultimately I see it being an issue. As you've mentioned though that could easily not be down to them but if they aren't there to create in the current season especially and our full backs don't in healthy doses then who is?

This brings me to my next question.... do we to heavily rely on 2-3 players and does this allow others to go hiding a fair bit? I'd love to see the CM and FB assist numbers from the last few seasons of all top 10 clubs to see how our boys compare. Winksy is a lovely little footballer, surely he is better than 0.5 assists per season and if he is is that down to the player or the old gaffer bless him? Tricky issues the new boss faces if it ain't the latter.

Winks 1.0 (#8) would have got plenty of key-passes, if not assists. Winks 2.0 (DM) = a lightweight Scotty Parker. Yes, I believe Poch coached him that way. I think it's telling tho' that you didn't consider Dier for the above stat-list, when Winks has been playing that equivalent role for well over a year now.

More broadly, when we were successfully pressing and winning the ball high up the pitch (or with TA playing quarter back to DR & KW), there was enough creativity in a combo of HK, HMS, DA, EL, LM & CE to carry the load)... Now there's more requirement from our central midfield to at least spark attacks, but without the switch to 433 that our summer business hinted at we're not in a position to deliver on that front (we're not dominating the ball, creating a platform upon which to play - Dembele missed there! - or successfully feeding the creative aspect of our front 4 on a vertical basis).
 
Ndombele has to start the big games. No one of the midfield could break their press. GLC can do it to. They need to be in the centre of the park in some way shape or form. I think Alli needs to be on the left drifting in. Son on the right. Gotta have creativity as a must for Burnley who will have the low block bus parked.
 
Also, last week Toby was saying "it's not just about the defenders, the people in front need to play smarter" and yet Jan was blaming the defending, truth is, I think it's both.

I think the lack of protection in the middle is exposing our defenders more and making them more vulnerable to mistakes.

Personally don't think Winks will ever be good enough and frankly, Sissoko isn't a defensive mid and never will be, he's more of a box to box workhorse, a battering ram.

The lack of protection in the midfield is a huge issue. We get numbers back but we’re out of shape a lot of the time. I’m hoping a solid CDM comes in in January, if not we’ll have to work with what we have the rest of the season.

At this point I would really think about setting up with Ndombele and Lo Celso in the middle of the park. Let Ndombele play more of a holding position and let lo Celso be more involved in attack. Ndombele doesn’t have the legs at the moment to be box to box so why not try him there? No one else seems able to step up at the moment. Ndombele’s pace would scare me a bit but At least these dudes have great ball skill and can link a pass.
 
Lo Celso - Winks - Ndombele

Lo Celso - Skipp - Ndombele

Some form of this. Put an extra body in the midfield instead of playing a shit house DM in Dier. Take Lucas off and play

Dele - Kane - Son

or

Lamela - Kane - Son

We need to get back to playing football, but I highly doubt that will be something Jose wants. I think we will continue to see a long ball game where we attempt to win the second ball and break.

This means we could be wasting some of our teams most threatening assets in Ndombele and Lo Celso making runs and linking the back to the front.
 
We need Eric Dier back in form desperately or bring in a very good DM. The only way to get Eric back in form is to play him. I hope he starts on Saturday alongside Ndombele or Lo Celso.
 
I'm afraid that Dier is way too immobile these days to fill in that role properly, especially against the better teams in the league and in the knockout stages of the CL. I would be surprised if Mourinho isn't already looking for a proper DM we can sign in January, but let's see how it plays us.
 
Winks has been poor for the most part but I want to see Mourinho give a midfield 2 of him and N'Dombele a try before he gets completely demoted to the bench.
 
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