Most overrated Spurs players ?

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Dempsey.

He got credit for coming up with important goals but it shouldn't hide the fact he was absolutely cack for 90 minutes. Was glad he didn't last long, going from VDV to him was quite depressing.
 
Guido said:
fair enough.

Point still stands, few "stars" of Ligue 1 (1 no more than 3 in the last decade) have continued to rip it up in PL.
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But that's a bit disingenuous isn't it? Economically, in recent years, there has only been one team capable of affording to buy and retain "stars" in ligue1, PSG. Monaco could for about about 2 years and then FFP and divorce altered their owner's strategy. Therefore most players are constantly stripped from Ligue 1 at the pre/potential star stage. France exports the second most footballers in world football, and one of the reasons is the quality of those footballers, who end up in much richer leagues (and winning world cups).

Why do they have to have been a "star" first in Ligue 1 to qualify for your status ? That's always unlikely given the economics.
 
bus-conductor said:
Why do they have to have been a "star" first in Ligue 1 to qualify for your status ? That's always unlikely given the economics.
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All I posted was I was awaiting for a Ligue 1 Star to be a star in the prem too. Since posting that we've more or less agree that there have been 1-3 stars from Ligue 1 that have managed it in the past decade or so. That's being a star in Ligue 1, then maintaining that when in PL. Not developing into a star in the PL. (BTW my interpretation of a star is their brilliance as a footballer, someone that you go "wow, this fella is amazing" not some marketing hyped player e.g. Pogba, who was very good for Juve but has been just an ordinary midfielder since rejoining Man U).

That's all. I'm not inventing a selective way of assessing players, it was just a throwaway comment aimed at Ligue 1 and how many of their players who rip up their Ligue only to be meh when playing in PL.
 
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Freudlyuchenko said:
I missed out the not making it a double negative.
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bus-conductor said:
But that's a bit disingenuous isn't it? Economically, in recent years, there has only been one team capable of affording to buy and retain "stars" in ligue1, PSG. Monaco could for about about 2 years and then FFP and divorce altered their owner's strategy. Therefore most players are constantly stripped from Ligue 1 at the pre/potential star stage. France exports the second most footballers in world football, and one of the reasons is the quality of those footballers, who end up in much richer leagues (and winning world cups).

Why do they have to have been a "star" first in Ligue 1 to qualify for your status ? That's always unlikely given the economics.
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The amount of players they have around all the European leagues is quite baffling, every top team has one or two french players at least
 
Guido said:
The game where Sandro scored, if I remember rightly that was the night of a near mutinous crowd, easily the worst away atmosphere I have ever been to as a Spurs supporter, little pockets of fans fighting each other (I'm 90% sure it was this game anyway).

All I posted was I was awaiting for a Ligue 1 Star to be a star in the prem too. Since posting that we've more or less agree that there have been 1-3 stars from Ligue 1 that have managed it in the past decade or so. That's being a star in Ligue 1, then maintaining that when in PL. Not developing into a star in the PL. (BTW my interpretation of a star is their brilliance as a footballer, someone that you go "wow, this fella is amazing" not some marketing hyped player e.g. Pogba, who was very good for Juve but has been just an ordinary midfielder since rejoining Man U).

That's all. I'm not inventing a selective way of assessing players, it was just a throwaway comment aimed at Ligue 1 and how many of their players who rip up their Ligue only to be meh when playing in PL.
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But what you've done is set an almost impossible criteria. Very few players get to the “star” development stage in ligue1 because of the economics, it's only the 6th richest league in Europe behind the PL, Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A and the Championship. it’s a bit like saying “but who was a star in league 2 and then a star in the PL". There is currently only one team in Ligue1 who can buy and retain established "stars". Even Monaco can't do it any more.

If you ignore your impossible criteria, then loads of players have come out of the French league and been stars in the PL (and the other major leagues). There isn't a country that has exported more/better quality footballers in world football. Look at all the top clubs over the last ten years in the England, Italy, Germany, Spain they are rife with e-ligue1 stars from Drogba, Kante, Hazard, Gallas, Essien, Evra, Ribery, Lizerazu, Abidal, Diarra, Varane, Benzema, Umtiti, Tolisso, Aubamayang, Henry, Pires, Abidal, Griezman, O Dembele, Lloris, Pogba, Kante, Coman, Pjanic......it just goes on and on - and most (bar a couple) of those are French players I can think of, not the other nationalities (African etc)

And Pogba is a fantastic footballer, even last year, playing in Mourinho's ultra pragmatic Cm2 system (which isn't ever going to be right for him) only 2 other CM's were more productive in terms of goals/assists than his 10 assists and 6 goals (Silva and KDB) and they both played in CM3's or occasionally as AM's all season.
 
bus-conductor said:
But what you've done is set an almost impossible criteria. Very few players get to the “star” development stage in ligue1 because of the economics, it's only the 6th richest league in Europe behind the PL, Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A and the Championship. it’s a bit like saying “but who was a star in league 2 and then a star in the PL". There is currently only one team in Ligue1 who can buy and retain established "stars". Even Monaco can't do it any more.

If you ignore your impossible criteria, then loads of players have come out of the French league and been stars in the PL (and the other major leagues). There isn't a country that has exported more/better quality footballers in world football. Look at all the top clubs over the last ten years in the England, Italy, Germany, Spain they are rife with e-ligue1 stars from Drogba, Kante, Hazard, Gallas, Essien, Evra, Ribery, Lizerazu, Abidal, Diarra, Varane, Benzema, Umtiti, Tolisso, Aubamayang, Henry, Pires, Abidal, Griezman, O Dembele, Lloris, Pogba, Kante, Coman, Pjanic......it just goes on and on - and most (bar a couple) of those are French players I can think of, not the other nationalities (African etc)

And Pogba is a fantastic footballer, even last year, playing in Mourinho's ultra pragmatic Cm2 system (which isn't ever going to be right for him) only 2 other CM's were more productive in terms of goals/assists than his 10 assists and 6 goals (Silva and KDB) and they both played in CM3's or occasionally as AM's all season.
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Mate I don't disagree with a single word you have written. All I said was there were very few established "stars" in Ligue 1, that come to the PL and remain a star in the PL too, the reasons for this can be debated all day long.

I think Poga was excellent for Juve (I said as much in my post) he's been just a midfielder since being re-signed for Utd. Desperately disappointing given his World record fee in fact.
 
Guido said:
Mate I don't disagree with a single word you have written. All I said was there were very few established "stars" in Ligue 1, that come to the PL and remain a star in the PL too, the reasons for this can be debated all day long.

I think Poga was excellent for Juve (I said as much in my post) he's been just a midfielder since being re-signed for Utd. Desperately disappointing given his World record fee in fact.
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Desperately disappointing? I’d love one of our cm’s to have 10 assists, six goals whilst still averaging 63 passes a game, playing some of it in cm2’s.

That’s about 15 seasons productivity of Dier/Dembele/Wanyama combined.
 
bus-conductor said:
Desperately disappointing? I’d love one of our cm’s to have 10 assists, six goals whilst still averaging 63 passes a game, playing some of it in cm2’s.

That’s about 15 seasons productivity of Dier/Dembele/Wanyama combined.
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Fair enough mate but I'd say you are one of a small handful of people that would say that he's doing something special at Utd. He's a shadow of the player he was at Juve. (reasons for this would no doubt be attributed to how his manager has him play, if that's the side of the fence you sit on i.e think his been average). I couldn't give a fuck about assist stats, one of the worst measures in the game.
 
Guido said:
Fair enough mate but I'd say you are one of a small handful of people that would say that he's doing something special at Utd. He's a shadow of the player he was at Juve. (reasons for this would no doubt be attributed to how his manager has him play, if that's the side of the fence you sit on i.e think his been average). I couldn't give a fuck about assist stats, one of the worst measures in the game.
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I don't think Mourinho's been getting the best out of him for sure, but even at meh level, Pogba's outperforming most 8's in this league.
 
bus-conductor said:
I don't think Mourinho's been getting the best out of him for sure, but even at meh level, Pogba's outperforming most 8's in this league.
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That I'd dispute all day long. The only thing I like of his is a long vertical ball from deep, sometimes done when facing his own goal but he only does this once or so per game. There is no dynamism to his game, very limited strong runs from deep transitioning Utd from defence to attack, limited dominance on the ball, all things he was displaying as part of his game at Juve, all things that got him a move to Utd. in the first place. Anyone of his PL counterparts if placed in that Utd team and asked to do the job Mourinho is asking of him, would perform to the same level as him, they would produce what he is doing for Utd, it's bread and butter football, boring and beige.
 
Guido said:
That I'd dispute all day long. The only thing I like of his is a long vertical ball from deep, sometimes done when facing his own goal but he only does this once or so per game. There is no dynamism to his game, very limited strong runs from deep transitioning Utd from defence to attack, limited dominance on the ball, all things he was displaying as part of his game at Juve, all things that got him a move to Utd. in the first place. Anyone of his PL counterparts if placed in that Utd team and asked to do the job Mourinho is asking of him, would perform to the same level as him, they would produce what he is doing for Utd, it's bread and butter football, boring and beige.
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You think if you stuck Dembele in that Utd team he'd do the donkey work Mourinho asks, average 63 passes a game and produce 6 goals and 10 assists a season? I think your bonkers.

Ive heard people call Dembele one of Europe's best midfielders and he's spent most of the last 5 years pirouetting round the centre circle playing safe passes after he's triple checked them for risk.
 
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