Moussa Sissoko

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There are other things he can be doing - dragging defenders out of position
Totally agree. But did you see him at the end of the game doing a lovely little run to the left of the goal to drag their defence with him? Loads of space to himself. Great positioning. Very fast. And none of their defenders even bothered staying on his tail! I don't think it was entirely incompetence on their part but rather that his reputation and performance earlier in the game dictated that he wasn't worth the effort. It was a decision qualified by the fact that Dele (or maybe it was Eriksen), who had the ball and could have slipped it to him, took one look at Sissoko on his tod and thought 'nah'.

He hasn't been as lively as last season thus far so I expect he'll end up back on the bench, proving useful later in the game when we need fresh legs to cover for a tired defence or an aggressive press.
 
To be fair if you go backwards from our goals , you will find Sissoko's involvement in the last few passes far more than Winks. Not to say that mean Sissoko is a better passer, he isnt, but his runs and simple layoffs created more than Winks. Still it would be better to have Ndombele Lo Celso in midfield instead of either of the other two.


That's really not true. here are the metrics for both players last season and Winks from the previous season:

7BXAtYr.png


dfGiscT.png



Even last season when almost entirely used as the deeper player his X/G build up (which is a measure of the quantity and quality of chances that result from players involvement in build up) and likewise deep progression (which is progressing the ball from our third and middle third to the attacking third) were still superior to Sissoko's and the season before, when playing more in a 8 or CM2 role he was producing nearly double the output in both areas than Sissoko did last season, despite Sissoko often playing in the 3 of the diamond last season.

Look at the difference in the pressing events too (and turnovers) where Winks was much more productive (or less reductive in turnovers).


There is no upside to Sissoko. Those metrics are as bad as I've seen for a player playing in his role in any decent side. The only notable spike is dribbles (and then it's only 1.6 per 90), and we all know how most of those end...and some of them are more like "ploughs" than dribbles.
 
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The one against villa where he put it out for a throw from about 2 yards out was incredible. I've never seen someone be this bad at shooting before, and it's not like they're hard shots for the most part either. Often he's in the box and puts it out of the ground or just doesn't actually kick the ball at all
Stefan Freund is a club “legend” and he couldn’t shoot for shit......just saying!!
Can’t remember if he ever scored? Maybe one or two...
 
I just dread the possibility of a penalty shootout with someone and it's level after every one of our players has taken one except...no...no...it doesn't bear thinking about.
 
That's really not true. here are the metrics for both players last season and Winks from the previous season:

7BXAtYr.png


dfGiscT.png



Even last season when almost entirely used as the deeper player his X/G build up (which is a measure of the quantity and quality of chances that result from players involvement in build up) and likewise deep progression (which is progressing the ball from our third and middle third to the attacking third) were still superior to Sissoko's and the season before, when playing more in a 8 or CM2 role he was producing nearly double the output in both areas than Sissoko did last season, despite Sissoko often playing in the 3 of the diamond last season.

Look at the difference in the pressing events too (and turnovers) where Winks was much more productive (or less reductive in turnovers).


There is no upside to Sissoko. Those metrics are as bad as I've seen for a player playing in his role in any decent side. The only notable spike is dribbles, and we all know how most of those end...and some of them are more like "ploughs" than dribbles.

I genuinely believe your obsession with stats distorts your opinion of certain players. Sissoko isn't in the team for his goals, assists or crossing ability and everyone knows that, including the manager that has consistently started him for the past year. The positive attributes he brings to the team are not measured by any chart and there's a reason why many thought he was our player of the season last season. Simply put, fans using their eyes saw not only a standout performer in games but consistency throughout the season when others were out injured or struggled for form.

In terms of what he brings, it's that brute strength, the ability to make those marauding runs that other players cannot make where the ball is picked up deep and ploughed through to the other end of the pitch. It's the defensive contributions where he's constantly tracking back to offer support, it's the clearing up deep covering for full backs that have been caught out of position or with another player. His passing was massively improved last season compared with before that and I believe that a confident Sissoko has a lot to offer in a unique way.

I think if you look at most teams they have one of these types of players - the worker, the guy that is not going to leave that field with you questioning whether he wanted to be out there. He's the sort of player that makes lung busting runs in stoppage time at the end of the match and gets criticised for not scoring as opposed to recognition for even being there in the first place. It's not always pretty on the eye or spectacular but it often compliments the more naturally gifted players well.
 
I genuinely believe your obsession with stats distorts your opinion of certain players. Sissoko isn't in the team for his goals, assists or crossing ability and everyone knows that, including the manager that has consistently started him for the past year. The positive attributes he brings to the team are not measured by any chart and there's a reason why many thought he was our player of the season last season. Simply put, fans using their eyes saw not only a standout performer in games but consistency throughout the season when others were out injured or struggled for form.

In terms of what he brings, it's that brute strength, the ability to make those marauding runs that other players cannot make where the ball is picked up deep and ploughed through to the other end of the pitch. It's the defensive contributions where he's constantly tracking back to offer support, it's the clearing up deep covering for full backs that have been caught out of position or with another player. His passing was massively improved last season compared with before that and I believe that a confident Sissoko has a lot to offer in a unique way.

I think if you look at most teams they have one of these types of players - the worker, the guy that is not going to leave that field with you questioning whether he wanted to be out there. He's the sort of player that makes lung busting runs in stoppage time at the end of the match and gets criticised for not scoring as opposed to recognition for even being there in the first place. It's not always pretty on the eye or spectacular but it often compliments the more naturally gifted players well.


I genuinely believe your inability to understand football or actually reconcile what your eyes see, distorts your opinion of certain players. hence we get you constantly telling us Eriksen is shit, and Sissoko is great. If I were you, I'd start leaning a little more on data, because your eyes are bullshitting you big time and letting you down badly.

You literally ignored everything I wrote - and I backed up with cold hard evidence, and waffled on about goals and assists. Neither of which I was talking about. I responded directly to another poster claiming Sissoko transitioned the ball better than Winks from midfield. I specifically spoke about exactly the things you are talking about. Transitioning the ball. Which can be seen and it can be measured. My eyes tell me Sissoko doesn't do this often and he doesn't do it with any intelligence or verve, and the evidence gathered and measured correlates. Sissoko neither transitions the ball often or very well.

"Brute Strength" ?
That's a quality now is it? What's the point of brute strength if you don't tackle, intercept or press very much or very well?

Most teams do have a worker, Sissoko isn't that though. He doesn't tackle any more than Eriksen (even less this season). Doesn't press more than Eriksen or Winks, and they are hardly Kante's are they?

Did you actually watch our first four games? Sissoko's laziness in the press directly cost us a goal against Newcastle. No stats or data needed, just good old eyes? Did your eyes see him saunter over to Atsu half arsed?

"Sissoko has a lot to offer in a unique way"

Agree, as I said, for a player at this level, he is pretty unique, uniquely inept. Doesn't transition the ball much at all, which is his fundamental job, doesn't transition it with any wit, his 1.6 (which again is nothing exceptional) dribbles a game invariably end up with a misplaced pass or a a shot that exits the stadium, he doesn't press much, he doesn't win the ball much and he doesn't press effectively (as we saw for the Newcastle goal).

I think anyone that thinks Sissoko has a lot to offer, but that Eriksen's shit should probably take up a new hobby.
 
I genuinely believe your inability to understand football or actually reconcile what your eyes see, distorts your opinion of certain players. hence we get you constantly telling us Eriksen is shit, and Sissoko is great. If I were you, I'd start leaning a little more on data, because your eyes are bullshitting you big time and letting you down badly.

You literally ignored everything I wrote - and I backed up with cold hard evidence, and waffled on about goals and assists. Neither of which I was talking about. I specifically spoke about exactly the things you are talking about. Transitioning the ball. Which can be seen and it can be measured. My eyes tell me Sissoko doesn't do this often and he doesn't do it with any intelligence or verve, and the evidence gathered and measured correlates. Sissoko neither transitions the ball often or very well.

"Brute Strength" ?
That's a quality now is it? What's the point of brute strength if you don't tackle, intercept or press very much or very well?

Most teams do have a worker, Sissoko isn't that though. He doesn't tackle any more than Eriksen (even less this season). Doesn't press more than Eriksen or Winks, and they are hardly Kante's are they?

Did you actually watch our first four games? Sissoko's laziness in the press directly cost us a goal against Newcastle. No stats or data needed, just good old eyes? Did your eyes see him saunter over to Atsu half arsed?

"Sissoko has a lot to offer in a unique way"

Agree, as I said, for a player at this level, he is pretty unique, uniquely inept. Doesn't transition the ball much at all, which is his fundamental job, doesn't transition it with any wit, his 1.6 (which again is nothing exceptional) dribbles a game invariably end up with a misplaced pass or a a shot that exits the stadium, he doesn't press much, he doesn't win the ball much and he doesn't press effectively (as we saw for the Newcastle goal).

I think anyone that thinks Sissoko has a lot to offer, but that Eriksen's shit should probably take up a new hobby.

He was shit all of last season..... And now he's lazy too? Only the woke few can see this.....

Sure, Blakey.
 
That's really not true. here are the metrics for both players last season and Winks from the previous season:

7BXAtYr.png


dfGiscT.png



Even last season when almost entirely used as the deeper player his X/G build up (which is a measure of the quantity and quality of chances that result from players involvement in build up) and likewise deep progression (which is progressing the ball from our third and middle third to the attacking third) were still superior to Sissoko's and the season before, when playing more in a 8 or CM2 role he was producing nearly double the output in both areas than Sissoko did last season, despite Sissoko often playing in the 3 of the diamond last season.

Look at the difference in the pressing events too (and turnovers) where Winks was much more productive (or less reductive in turnovers).


There is no upside to Sissoko. Those metrics are as bad as I've seen for a player playing in his role in any decent side. The only notable spike is dribbles (and then it's only 1.6 per 90), and we all know how most of those end...and some of them are more like "ploughs" than dribbles.
Why are there 2 thingies for Winks and 1 for Sissoko in your colourful drawings.
 
He was shit all of last season..... And now he's lazy too? Only the woke few can see this.....

Sure, Blakey.

Sorry, let me clarify further; he hasn't suddenly become lazy, he was also lazy last season too. It's as much a mental thing as a physical one, and to be fair, Pochettino has allowed us to become a lazy team, so he's not entirely alone, but to claim he's some kind of dynamic defensive force of nature, this season or last, is bollocks, he isn't, and every single quantifiable metric supports that.

And I and others have also provided plenty of anecdotal, visual evidence to support that. Watch what he does for the Newcastle goal. watch what he does for Villa's goal, and tell me it's not lazy or lethargic.

Again, I'm not saying he's alone in being less than dynamic, but it's the only thing he's supposedly got going for him, and it's a bit bogus, what's left?
 
Sorry, let me clarify further; he hasn't suddenly become lazy, he was also lazy last season too. It's as much a mental thing as a physical one, and to be fair, Pochettino has allowed us to become a lazy team, so he's not entirely alone, but to claim he's some kind of dynamic defensive force of nature, this season or last, is bollocks, he isn't, and every single quantifiable metric supports that.

And I and others have also provided plenty of anecdotal, visual evidence to support that. Watch what he does for the Newcastle goal. watch what he does for Villa's goal, and tell me it's not lazy or lethargic.

Again, I'm not saying he's alone in being less than dynamic, but it's the only thing he's supposedly got going for him, and it's a bit bogus, what's left?

All your posts set out on the basis of dis-proving he's some sort of footballing god (which virtually no one claims) and in turn relentlessly attempt to establish that he in fact contributes nothing and is shit on all levels.

...Sheer hyperbole at BOTH ends of your argument.

He had a good season.... You are in a distinct minority (pros and fans alike) to insist otherwise.

Your "always been lazy comments" don't dignify further discussion.
 
All your posts set out on the basis of dis-proving he's some sort of footballing god (which virtually no one claims) and in turn relentlessly attempt to establish that he in fact contributes nothing and is shit on all levels.

...Sheer hyperbole at BOTH ends of your argument.

He had a good season.... You are in a distinct minority (pros and fans alike) to insist otherwise.

Your "always been lazy comments" don't dignify further discussion.

Well, my post yesterday set out to merely prove that he doesn't transition the ball more, or more productively than Winks. Hyperbole? Hardly.

I then just responded to posts quoting me, which eulogised about Sissoko as being a "stand-out performer" referencing his "defensive contributions" and his "unique" skill set.

All of which I disagree with and can support with anecdotal, visual and data evidence to the contrary.

I think you would be better off directing your hyperbole accusations at those making these kind hyperbolic claims.
 
Well, my post yesterday set out to merely prove that he doesn't transition the ball more, or more productively than Winks. Hyperbole? Hardly.

I then just responded to posts quoting me, which eulogised about Sissoko as being a "stand-out performer" referencing his "defensive contributions" and his "unique" skill set.

All of which I disagree with and can support with anecdotal, visual and data evidence to the contrary.

I think you would be better off directing your hyperbole accusations at those making these kind hyperbolic claims.

Impossible to take your posts in isolation when it comes to this subject, mate.
 
I genuinely believe your inability to understand football or actually reconcile what your eyes see, distorts your opinion of certain players. hence we get you constantly telling us Eriksen is shit, and Sissoko is great. If I were you, I'd start leaning a little more on data, because your eyes are bullshitting you big time and letting you down badly.

You literally ignored everything I wrote - and I backed up with cold hard evidence, and waffled on about goals and assists. Neither of which I was talking about. I responded directly to another poster claiming Sissoko transitioned the ball better than Winks from midfield. I specifically spoke about exactly the things you are talking about. Transitioning the ball. Which can be seen and it can be measured. My eyes tell me Sissoko doesn't do this often and he doesn't do it with any intelligence or verve, and the evidence gathered and measured correlates. Sissoko neither transitions the ball often or very well.

"Brute Strength" ?
That's a quality now is it? What's the point of brute strength if you don't tackle, intercept or press very much or very well?

Most teams do have a worker, Sissoko isn't that though. He doesn't tackle any more than Eriksen (even less this season). Doesn't press more than Eriksen or Winks, and they are hardly Kante's are they?

Did you actually watch our first four games? Sissoko's laziness in the press directly cost us a goal against Newcastle. No stats or data needed, just good old eyes? Did your eyes see him saunter over to Atsu half arsed?

"Sissoko has a lot to offer in a unique way"

Agree, as I said, for a player at this level, he is pretty unique, uniquely inept. Doesn't transition the ball much at all, which is his fundamental job, doesn't transition it with any wit, his 1.6 (which again is nothing exceptional) dribbles a game invariably end up with a misplaced pass or a a shot that exits the stadium, he doesn't press much, he doesn't win the ball much and he doesn't press effectively (as we saw for the Newcastle goal).

I think anyone that thinks Sissoko has a lot to offer, but that Eriksen's shit should probably take up a new hobby.

I’m not going to get into a slagging match and while we’re talking about eyes, maybe if you used yours you’d see I quite clearly don’t think Eriksen is shit, just massively overrated. I’ve talked about his ability many times, but whatever.

Most of my Eriksen posts are a semi-troll to bring down those that put him on a pedestal but your obsession with proving Sissoko is the worst footballer to have ever played professionally takes things to a new level. It’s also obvious to anyone that I’ve nowhere stated Sissoko is a better footballer than Eriksen.

It’s not my fault that you think football is about putting together a team of 11 Christian Eriksen’s where footballing ability is the only thing that matters. If after a season of Sissoko playing well you can’t see how he brings something different to the team and why Poch has started him in pretty much every match for a year then maybe it’s not me that needs a new hobby.

Either way your narcissism in which every post, such as the match ratings/review threads, has to be further proof you know more tactically and factually about any match or player is just fucking droll. Go and manage an amateur team and work your way up or something if you’re that fucking knowledgable. Peace.
 
Sorry, let me clarify further; he hasn't suddenly become lazy, he was also lazy last season too. It's as much a mental thing as a physical one, and to be fair, Pochettino has allowed us to become a lazy team, so he's not entirely alone, but to claim he's some kind of dynamic defensive force of nature, this season or last, is bollocks, he isn't, and every single quantifiable metric supports that.

And I and others have also provided plenty of anecdotal, visual evidence to support that. Watch what he does for the Newcastle goal. watch what he does for Villa's goal, and tell me it's not lazy or lethargic.

Again, I'm not saying he's alone in being less than dynamic, but it's the only thing he's supposedly got going for him, and it's a bit bogus, what's left?
I'm not a guy that's going to get in some back and forth cunt off, but if you think Sissoko is lazy, then you aren't paying attention. He's got a lot of issues, but laziness is not one of them.
 
I'm not a guy that's going to get in some back and forth cunt off, but if you think Sissoko is lazy, then you aren't paying attention. He's got a lot of issues, but laziness is not one of them.

What would you call what he did for the Newcastle goal? Im pretty sure he just jogs instead of sprinting after McGinn runs past him for the Villa goal too. They are just recent high profile examples. I’ve pointed it out in matches to n real time all through last season.

Not only that but he’s a coward. I and others have posted various clips showing team mates needing an out ball, and him just standing still or worse hiding and pointing. There’s a great example posted by Five a few pages back, and I’ve posted clips from the CL final.

Clearly some of us have paid more attention and gone to plenty of effort to back it up.
 
Sorry, let me clarify further; he hasn't suddenly become lazy, he was also lazy last season too. It's as much a mental thing as a physical one, and to be fair, Pochettino has allowed us to become a lazy team, so he's not entirely alone, but to claim he's some kind of dynamic defensive force of nature, this season or last, is bollocks, he isn't, and every single quantifiable metric supports that.

And I and others have also provided plenty of anecdotal, visual evidence to support that. Watch what he does for the Newcastle goal. watch what he does for Villa's goal, and tell me it's not lazy or lethargic.

Again, I'm not saying he's alone in being less than dynamic, but it's the only thing he's supposedly got going for him, and it's a bit bogus, what's left?
Don't say he is lazy, bus-conductor bus-conductor . He is dozy-there's a big difference. I bet you would prefer to be called dozy rather than lazy any day of the week, wouldn't you?
 
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