Near and VAR

[The Fighting Cock]

Football is a game that has continually evolved. However, despite the changes and amendments, the fundamental principle remains the same. The team that scores the most goals wins. Goals decide matches. This is why they’re the most difficult part of the game and why the greatest players are always judged to be those at the other end of the pitch. Goals change games and lives. The weight of a goal is why football changes. They’re too important to be left to chance or individual opinion. Goals are why football, centuries after it was first played, continues to be changed. Football... Read more »

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[Guido 🇺🇦]

Do you iron your underpants Bardi ?

Goals are scored because of mistakes. Mistakes, be they forced or unforced, by the brilliance or shitness of players. By the officials' ability or inability to interpret what played out. THIS is football, this is what it has always been, it is the reason why you love it so (assuming you haven't been following it since VAR was introduced).

It is often said that without fans football is nothing, but VAR is for the TV goers, the fans that don't invest a penny into "their" club because they don't go and yet you wish to pander to these fans??!! The fans at the stadium are invested into the club, physically, emotionally and financially. Tune into a dead game on TV with no atmosphere and the TV audience will turn off, there will be no market.

VAR has killed the voice of the fans in the stadium, there now is no point in haranguing the ref or the Lino every time they run past you on the touchline or every time a foul is given to the oppo. The sarcastic clap and jeer when you finally get a free kick awarded to your team after 30mins. The role of the fan to create a hostile atmosphere, where not only the opponents feel it but the officials too, their role is now becoming redundant.

The game you fell in love with was imperfect, the game you fell in love with has always been to play without error whilst forcing your opponent into them. The fans have always gone to a game with the belief that they can help their team achieve both. Not any more. We've handed over the game to those that iron their underpants.

 

[Bardi]

Do you iron your underpants Bardi ?

Goals are scored because of mistakes. Mistakes, be they forced or unforced, by the brilliance or sh*tness of players. By the officials' ability or inability to interpret what played out. THIS is football, this is what it has always been, it is the reason why you love it so (assuming you haven't been following it since VAR was introduced).

It is often said that without fans football is nothing, but VAR is for the TV goers, the fans that don't invest a penny into "their" club because they don't go and yet you wish to pander to these fans??!! The fans at the stadium are invested into the club, physically, emotionally and financially. Tune into a dead game on TV with no atmosphere and the TV audience will turn off, there will be no market.

VAR has killed the voice of the fans in the stadium, there now is no point in haranguing the ref or the Lino every time they run past you on the touchline or every time a foul is given to the oppo. The sarcastic clap and jeer when you finally get a free kick awarded to your team after 30mins. The role of the fan to create a hostile atmosphere, where not only the opponents feel it but the officials too, their role is now becoming redundant.

The game you fell in love with was imperfect, the game you fell in love with has always been to play without error whilst forcing your opponent into them. The fans have always gone to a game with the belief that they can help their team achieve both. Not any more. We've handed over the game to those that iron their underpants.

VAR isn't ruling on freekicks etc so you've got plenty to still work with there. It's stopping the stupid decisions that tend to go "the big teams" or "home teams" way. It's removing the guess work that happens quite a lot of time.

I agree with your point about forcing an error, but that should be from the opposition not the ref.

Fans still have a massive part to play and VAR won't stop that. VAR won't stop wonder goals, it won't stop last minute goals. It will stop illegal goals from being counted. Not sure where the problem is?

I go to games and I've experienced VAR live. Of course you worry when a goal goes in, but goals which shouldn't count, no longer count.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

VAR isn't ruling on freekicks etc so you've got plenty to still work with there. It's stopping the stupid decisions that tend to go "the big teams" or "home teams" way. It's removing the guess work that happens quite a lot of time.

I agree with your point about forcing an error, but that should be from the opposition not the ref.

Fans still have a massive part to play and VAR won't stop that. VAR won't stop wonder goals, it won't stop last minute goals. It will stop illegal goals from being counted. Not sure where the problem is?

I go to games and I've experienced VAR live. Of course you worry when a goal goes in, but goals which shouldn't count, no longer count.

The officials are all part and parcel of the game, that includes the errors too. It's wrapped up in the belief that fans can go to a game and believe that if they are as horrible as possible to the ref they can affect the game, this is what home advantage is. Remove this belief and you have just another nail in the coffin for the atmosphere.

Then you lose the shithousery, never understood England's fake obsession with not pretending not to dive, not to fall over, pretend to be hurt. VAR removes all this, removes the whole dynamic of a feisty game played on or over the edge. Instead, we are left with a boring game of straight lines, sanitised for the pizza hut & Budwiezer sofa cunts, who jump onto Twitter when one of their players is tackled and literally sobs his heart out demanding a player be executed because he hurt is foot.

One of the best games I ever saw was Barca's come back against PSG a couple of years ago in the CL, every single one of their comeback gaols would have been chalked off if VAR was in play. I don't care! I don't care because the game is about a team taking it to the edge, or over it, doing absolutely everything and more to win, fuck the laws of the game, if the ref spots it fair enough but if not, goal! If not, wow! Just look at what the other team is imposing on the other and look at how the other team is standing up or crumbling as a consequence.

Imagine the battle of the bridge with VAR. We almost certainly would have knocked out Juve two years ago with VAR (both legs) but our challenge in that game was to be more than the better footballing side, our challenge was to be the better cunts.

The soul of football is being eroded before our eyes all because Keyser Soze said the 2% of poor ref decisions per game demanded changing the rule book. Changing the code of the game into something that "us" fans can no longer play the same game as the one we watch. There are now two codes of the game, ref'd differently and as a consequence played differently.

 

[FightingIllini]

VAR is for the TV goers, the fans that don't invest a penny into "their" club because they don't go and yet you wish to pander to these fans??!!

Make no mistake, it's shitty for us too.

VAR is born of a misunderstanding of what the consumer product of a football match is in the first place.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Make no mistake, it's shitty for us too

Sure I guess but IMO that's been the voice demanding VAR with the help of the punditry. When you are at the game most don't get back home for a good couple of hours after KO, by which time the media have already laid out their stall, already forensically examined the game and made talking points contentious even if they weren't. All the time spent on was it wasn't it moments and barely anything about the game, where it was won and lost. This carries on for the rest of the evening and into the following days. The debating is dominated by those watching the TV.

It's great for clicks, keeps the 24/7 circus with something to say until the build-up to the next game comes but it does mean that an air of dissatisfaction has been created around almost every game, which fuels the reason why "something must be done".

 

[FightingIllini]

Sure I guess but IMO that's been the voice demanding VAR with the help of the punditry. When you are at the game most don't get back home for a good couple of hours after KO, by which time the media have already laid out their stall, already forensically examined the game and made talking points contentious even if they weren't. All the time spent on was it wasn't it moments and barely anything about the game, where it was won and lost. This carries on for the rest of the evening and into the following days. The debating is dominated by those watching the TV.

It's great for clicks, keeps the 24/7 circus with something to say until the build-up to the next game comes but it does mean that an air of dissatisfaction has been created around almost every game, which fuels the reason why "something must be done".

I don't know if it's a question of who is leading the charge for it or who VAR is "for", I think all the different stakeholders are operating under a double delusion about VAR:

1. That it will provide certainty regarding correct calls being made and
2. At little-to-no cost from the experience of watching the match

Both parts of that are wrong, will always be wrong, and will only get more wrong as the technology evolves.

And I don't say that as some inherent luddite, both of those things are true of goal line technology, for instance.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

I don't know if it's a question of who is leading the charge for it or who VAR is "for", I think all the different stakeholders are operating under a double delusion about VAR:

1. That it will provide certainty regarding correct calls being made and
2. At little-to-no cost from the experience of watching the match

Both parts of that are wrong, will always be wrong, and will only get more wrong as the technology evolves.

And I don't say that as some inherent luddite, both of those things are true of goal line technology, for instance.

I love goal-line tech. I trust it implicitly, it's almost immediate, it's not controversial and everyone has accepted it because it's simply is great and does what it set out to do.

I will support ALL technology if it's implemented as per goal line.

VAR has made football worse and has solved absolutely fuck all.

 

[Borodin55]

VAR has made football worse and has solved absolutely fuck all.

I agree with you but that is exactly the whole hub of the problem. VAR was never introduced to 'solve' anything but people are using it as if it was. It's sole purpose is to provide the referee with information regarding an incident as you pointed out.

Incident occurs
The referee informs the VAR, or the VAR recommends to the referee that a decision/incident should be reviewed.
The video footage is reviewed by the VAR, who advises the referee via headset what the video shows.
The referee decides to review the video footage on the side of the field of play before taking the appropriate action/decision, or the referee accepts the information from the VAR and takes the appropriate action/decision.

The problems arise with the rules NOT the incident or the video recording of it. If the laws of the game had stated that accidental handball was not an offence if it ultimately leads to a goal then the decision regarding City's third would have been the referee's to make based on whether or not he felt it had been deliberate.
We cannot simply blame a system that is only showing us exactly what actually happened because the end result is not in our team's favour.

Just as for years before, human error allowed for many wrong decisions to be made in football so it will continue but in a different format. Instead of a referee not seeing an incident or making a blatantly badly informed decision based on perhaps wrong information provided by his linesmen....now he will see what happened in larger than life colour HD on a monitor. If it's a clear cut violation of a law then no problem or dispute but if it's something open entirely to the ref's opinion/interpretation then you will have mistakes made....but blame the guy with the whistle NOT the messenger.

VAR was not introduced as a judge and jury but a means of providing instant (yeah I know, maybe not yet) video footage of play to enable referees to have a better chance of getting it right. Whether that happens or not is no direct fault of the system.

 

[Boltonspur]

Love the wordplay in the title
Not read the article but I’m sold regardless

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

That is exactly the whole hub of the problem. VAR was not introduced to 'solve' anything but people are using it as if it was. It's sole purpose is to provide the referee with information regarding an incident.

Incident occurs
The referee informs the VAR, or the VAR recommends to the referee that a decision/incident should be reviewed.
The video footage is reviewed by the VAR, who advises the referee via headset what the video shows.
The referee decides to review the video footage on the side of the field of play before taking the appropriate action/decision, or the referee accepts the information from the VAR and takes the appropriate action/decision.

The problems arise with the rules NOT the incident or the video recording of it. If the laws of the game had stated that accidental handball was not an offence if it ultimately leads to a goal then the decision regarding City's third would have been the referee's to make based on whether or not he felt it had been deliberate.
We cannot simply blame a system that is only showing us exactly what actually happened because the end result is not in our team's favour.

Just as for years before, human error allowed for many wrong decisions to be made in football so it will continue but in a different format. Instead of a referee not seeing an incident or making a blatantly badly informed decision based on perhaps wrong information provided by his linesmen....now he will see what happened in larger than life colour HD on a monitor. If it's a clear cut violation of a law then no problem or dispute but if it's something open entirely to the ref's opinion/interpretation then you will have mistakes made....but blame the guy with the whistle NOT the messenger.

VAR was not introduced as a judge and jury but a means of providing instant (yeah I know, maybe not yet) video footage of play to enable referees to have a better chance of getting it right. Whether that happens or not is no direct fault of the system.

The new handball law exists BECAUSE of VAR, VAR has given us this new law!!

But it's not just about the new handball law, even when it's the right decision, like tonight the goal wasn't offside and was allowed to stand against Utd. what a total and utter mess. Fans can't celebrate the goal because it's being checked, then it's correctly given but the fans are denied that spontaneous rapture we all get when a goal is scored. "Is Gazza going to have a crack?" "He is you know!!" Oh, Oh you have to say that is school, wait a minute whilst we check VAR". What a load of old cunt.

 

[Borodin55]

The new handball law exists BECAUSE of VAR, VAR has given us this new law!!

But it's not just about the new handball law, even when it's the right decision, like tonight the goal wasn't offside and was allowed to stand against Utd. what a total and utter mess. Fans can't celebrate the goal because it's being checked, then it's correctly given but the fans are denied that spontaneous rapture we all get when a goal is scored. "Is Gazza going to have a crack?" "He is you know!!" Oh, Oh you have to say that is school, wait a minute whilst we check VAR". What a load of old cunt.

When Gazza scored that goal I was on a fishing holiday in the mountains with some mates and we all swore we wouldn't listen to the game because some of the lads were also Woolwich fans. I wandered off and found a secluded corner, tuned in my little radio and listened intently with my earphones.
All I can say in my defence your honour is that the 'moment took over'. I stood up and at the top of my voice shouted "Fucking get in !!" It was like something from The Sound Of Music as my voice echoed across the valleys and bounced off every mountainside. Needless to say I was about as popular as a rattlesnake in a lucky dip and spent that evening on my own except for the one can of lager I had been allotted from our supplies.

(Still worth it though )

As you say, a totally different story if it had been referred to VAR.

 

[LegKneeKing]

The fact the battle of the Bridge couldn't happen under VAR is a shame. A huge shame.