Interesting. There were some flats that were appoved locally where I live that were described by the council as poorly designed and bland. Seems the courts are trying to get devlopments moving
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Interesting. There were some flats that were appoved locally where I live that were described by the council as poorly designed and bland. Seems the courts are trying to get devlopments moving
Khan didn't support it?BangkokSpud
Agenda for Planning Sub Committee on Monday, 9th March, 2020, 7.00 pm | Haringey Council
www.minutes.haringey.gov.uk
HGY/2019/2929 & 2930 - Nos. 867-879 High Road and land to the rear, N17 8EY PDF 965 KB
Proposal - Planning Permission:Hybrid planning application (part Full/Part Outline) for the demolition of existing buildings & structures and redevelopment of the site for a residential led mixed-use scheme with up to 330 residential units (class C3), retail/café use (Use Class A1/A3), area of new public open space, landscaping and other associated works. Full details/permission is sought in respect of Block D, 867 and 869 High Road (Grade II listed) and proposed Block G to its rear. Outline permission is sought for the remainder of the site, with details of “scale”, “layout”, “appearance” and “landscaping” reserved in relation to proposed Blocks A, B and C and details of “appearance”, “landscaping” and “layout” only reserved in relation to Block E.
Proposal - Listed Building Consent: Listed Building Consent for Internal alterations and associated works to provide 6 x 2- bed flats at 867 and 869 High Road.
Recommendation: GRANT
Additional documents:
- Appendix 1 - Plans and Documents List (002) , item 8. PDF 85 KB
- Appendix 2 - QRP Report 13-03-2019 , item 8. PDF 126 KB
- Appendix 3 - QRP Report 19-06-2019 , item 8. PDF 122 KB
- Appendix 4 - QRP Report 11-12-2019 , item 8. PDF 122 KB
- Appendix 5 - Development Management Forum Notes , item 8. PDF 73 KB
- There are a further 6 documents.View the full list of documents for item 8.
Wow.
A couple of weeks ago I posted a letter from the Mayor Of London which said he did not support the proposals on various grounds. So he and Haringey must have been told that they had no legal grounds to not grant planning permission. Big turnaround, and surprisingly quick too !
Must be a good idea.
What has never been clear is what the commercial arrangements are.
Certainly it was reported that Spurs included circa £10m in their accounts a couple of years ago from the Brook House development.
The Brook House development was done in 'partnership' with Newlon (a social housing developer) and the commercial justification for that would be that the construction risk is too great for Spurs and it doesn't really have the skillset inhouse either, so a 'partnership' with others is a sensible approach.
For similar reasons I'd guess there would be some partnership to develop both The Goods Yard and this B & M site, so Spurs certainly wont get all the profits.
I'm not actually sure that Spurs actually own either the Goods Yard or B & M site - I think they may well be owned by ENIC companies, so it maybe that the work to secure planning and arrange the partnership is done by Spurs (and that's our role) so will receive remuneration on that basis. Aside from waiting for the accounts covering the period in which the build takes place to be published, perhaps the only way to find out the commercial arrangements (and Spurs likely 'cut') is to get the Trust to ask Levy in one of their Board to Board meetings
Unless of course any posters already have access to that kind of information.
The Mayor's letter stated that he was significantly changing the goalposts for affordable housing and other requirements for developers, on a date after the planning application had been made.
The new requirements (although I am not in the property business) seemed to me to be so much more demanding that the economics of most developments would be very significantly different - and potentially many developments would not be economic to build (embarrassing when the Mayor has fallen short of his house build targets in London already).
My guess is that the Mayor was either told that the new requirements were so demanding that few developments would be commercially viable or that he couldn't demand those requirements for planning applications already made. Hence he and Harringey now having to do a 180 degree turn and recommend consent.
Park Lane Mark Twain
'Previous season benefited from £8 sale of site of Brook House primary school'.
This is the £8m profit (not £10m I mentioned) on the Brook House site included in the Tottenham Hotspur accounts for year to 30 June 2016
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This is the £8m profit (not £10m I mentioned) on the Brook House site included in the Tottenham Hotspur accounts for year to 30 June 2016
lol 127m wage bill on 460m turnover.
These numbers were released 2018 though (as per the tweet) so probably 16/17 season. Would our turnover have been £460m back then? We also don't go near our champions league revenue as a revenue stream as it's not a consistent stream a team ranked 5th/6th biggest can rely on year in year out.
I can't be arsed to look, but does anyone know our turnover for what I assume was the 16/17 season compared to our wages?
Park Lane Mark Twain
£306 m revenue that year so circa 41% went on wages.
Both wages and revenues increased since - looks to be circa 45% - 50% spend on wages is the target atm
Park Lane Mark Twain
fyi, the next site Spurs are involved in developing is 500 White Hart Lane (originally earmarked to re-house Archway Steel's business but they declined and moved elsewhere , so Spurs obtained planning permission and the did some sort of deal with Fairview to build the homes.
First sales of the homes started last autumn so possibly in the accounts to 30 June 2020 to be announced March 2021, - or conceivably depending on the deal might even be 30 June 2019 to be announced end March 2020 - we will see the financial result of the deal)
Tottenham Hotspur Partners with Fairview | Fairview New Homes
The football club will partner with Fairview New Homes to initiate a regeneration scheme for its site at 500 White Hart Lane. Read more.
I've no idea if the deal on 500 WHL will be similar to deals still to be done to develop The Goods Yard or B & M site though.
Thanks for posting that, didn't think that I was going to be able to watch it otherwise
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Now that planning permission has been given for The Goods Yard and the old B & M site, both on the edges of the High Road West area, there's no real season why the Haringey/Lendlease JV doesn't publish its own plans for the High Road West area and proceed to get planning permission itself.
However when Spurs (with Newlon as partner) built the Brook House development it was built as 100% affordable housing so as to house Love Lane council tenants who wanted to stay in the area with the tenants moving thereover 3 years ago now. So a very successful plan.
The original understanding behind Spurs building the 100% affordable housing Brook House was the council would the opportunity to finalise its High Road West plans at the same time as Spurs finalised the stadium planning permission, allowing the Love Lane flats to be knocked down 4 years ago and new tenants moved in maybe 3 years ago.
However Haringey Council didn't do that but used the Love Lane flats for 'temporary housing' and now due to the length of time they have been in Love Lane (circa 3 years) the new 'temporary' tenants have now gained rights to stay there.
So the position is now back to the problems before Brook House was built - the Council now need to both ballot the new 'temporary tenants' to get them to agree to be re-housed and offer them various incentives (money and others) to persuade them to move !
So its going to be expensive and slow to get them to move and allow the High Road West area to be redeveloped. Council will need to cut costs elsewhere to find the money to rehouse the 2md generation of Love Lane tenants - a multi million cost of incompetency !
However when Spurs (with Newlon as partner) built the Brook House development it was built as 100% affordable housing so as to house Love Lane council tenants who wanted to stay in the area with the tenants moving thereover 3 years ago now. So a very successful plan.
The original understanding behind Spurs building the 100% affordable housing Brook House was the council would the opportunity to finalise its High Road West plans at the same time as Spurs finalised the stadium planning permission, allowing the Love Lane flats to be knocked down 4 years ago and new tenants moved in maybe 3 years ago.
However Haringey Council didn't do that but used the Love Lane flats for 'temporary housing' and now due to the length of time they have been in Love Lane (circa 3 years) the new 'temporary' tenants have now gained rights to stay there.
So the position is now back to the problems before Brook House was built - the Council now need to both ballot the new 'temporary tenants' to get them to agree to be re-housed and offer them various incentives (money and others) to persuade them to move !
So its going to be expensive and slow to get them to move and allow the High Road West area to be redeveloped. Council will need to cut costs elsewhere to find the money to rehouse the 2md generation of Love Lane tenants - a multi million cost of incompetency !
The council briefing pack includes this interesting para :
The wider High Road West area is allocated in the AAP (NT5) as an appropriate place for residential development alongside a mix of other uses and call for a minimum of 1,400 homes and a net increase of 1,200 homes). Of the 1,400 dwellings anticipated, 222 homes have already been developed in the form of the Cannon Road housing area (HGY/2012/2128) and planning permission has been granted on appeal for 316 homes on the Goods Yard site (HGY/2018/0187). This leaves 862 dwellings still to be provided and this application (Edit - for B & M site) proposes up to 330 of this number.
So in summary :
High Road West Scheme to deliver a total of...…...1,400 new homes
Less :
Brook House (Built by Spurs in 2015)………………….. .222 new homes
The Good Yard (Spurs rec'd planning permission)….316 new homes
The B & M Site (council recommend Spurs plans)....330 new homes
Total new homes Built or Planned...…………………...868 new homes
Left for Haringey/Lendlease to plan to Build...…....332 new homes
So Spurs have already built or have plans to build the majority of the planned new homes in High Road West area.
Not a lot left for Haringey/Lendlease JV to plan to do - they should easily exceed the planned number of homes in High Road West !
The wider High Road West area is allocated in the AAP (NT5) as an appropriate place for residential development alongside a mix of other uses and call for a minimum of 1,400 homes and a net increase of 1,200 homes). Of the 1,400 dwellings anticipated, 222 homes have already been developed in the form of the Cannon Road housing area (HGY/2012/2128) and planning permission has been granted on appeal for 316 homes on the Goods Yard site (HGY/2018/0187). This leaves 862 dwellings still to be provided and this application (Edit - for B & M site) proposes up to 330 of this number.
So in summary :
High Road West Scheme to deliver a total of...…...1,400 new homes
Less :
Brook House (Built by Spurs in 2015)………………….. .222 new homes
The Good Yard (Spurs rec'd planning permission)….316 new homes
The B & M Site (council recommend Spurs plans)....330 new homes
Total new homes Built or Planned...…………………...868 new homes
Left for Haringey/Lendlease to plan to Build...…....332 new homes
So Spurs have already built or have plans to build the majority of the planned new homes in High Road West area.
Not a lot left for Haringey/Lendlease JV to plan to do - they should easily exceed the planned number of homes in High Road West !
The planning documents for B & M site contains this sentence :
.. the current lease for B&M of the main retail store building means that they will not be vacating the site until the end of September 2023
So demolition of this site and building of it will not begin until late 2023, unless the lease is brought to an early end. Planning permission will be granted for 5 years, rather than the usual 3 years.
.. the current lease for B&M of the main retail store building means that they will not be vacating the site until the end of September 2023
So demolition of this site and building of it will not begin until late 2023, unless the lease is brought to an early end. Planning permission will be granted for 5 years, rather than the usual 3 years.
The B & M Site (867 to 879 (odd numbers) High Road, Tottenham, London), Land Registry Title Number : MX314424) was bought by Stanhope Tottenham Ltd (now Fairgate Tottenham Limited) for £14,550,000 in 2017 - the title deeds were only changed to the Fairgate Tottenham name on 20 February 2020 (ie 10 days ago !).
beta.companieshouse.gov.uk
.
However the Ultimate holding company is Tottenham Holdings Ltd (formerly Stanhope Tottenham Holdings Ltd) which is 50% owned by Tottenham Developments Ltd (and 50% by 3rd parties who seem to be connected to Stanhope,Holdings Ltd, a significant property development company)
Fairgate Tottenham Ltd and Tottenham Holdings Ltd both have their Registered Office at Lilywhite House with Directors being Levy and Collecott (FD).
However I cant trace Tottenham Developments Ltd at Companies House, so can't say for sure if this a Tottenham Hotspur Ltd subsidiary company or not. I will see if I can trace the company when Spurs publish its accounts at the end of March/start April
FAIRGATE TOTTENHAM LIMITED - Filing history (free information from Companies House)
FAIRGATE TOTTENHAM LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity
beta.companieshouse.gov.uk
However the Ultimate holding company is Tottenham Holdings Ltd (formerly Stanhope Tottenham Holdings Ltd) which is 50% owned by Tottenham Developments Ltd (and 50% by 3rd parties who seem to be connected to Stanhope,Holdings Ltd, a significant property development company)
Fairgate Tottenham Ltd and Tottenham Holdings Ltd both have their Registered Office at Lilywhite House with Directors being Levy and Collecott (FD).
However I cant trace Tottenham Developments Ltd at Companies House, so can't say for sure if this a Tottenham Hotspur Ltd subsidiary company or not. I will see if I can trace the company when Spurs publish its accounts at the end of March/start April
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The B & M Site (867 to 879 (odd numbers) High Road, Tottenham, London), Land Registry Title Number : MX314424) was bought by Stanhope Tottenham Ltd (now Fairgate Tottenham Limited) for £14,550,000 in 2017 - the title deeds were only changed to the Fairgate Tottenham name on 20 February 2020 (ie 10 days ago !).
.FAIRGATE TOTTENHAM LIMITED - Filing history (free information from Companies House)
FAIRGATE TOTTENHAM LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity
However the Ultimate holding company is Tottenham Holdings Ltd (formerly Stanhope Tottenham Holdings Ltd) which is 50% owned by Tottenham Developments Ltd (and 50% by 3rd parties I don't recognise)
Fairgate Tottenham Ltd and Tottenham Holdings Ltd both have their Registered Office at Lilywhite House with Directors being Levy and Collecott (FD).
However I cant trace Tottenham Developments Ltd at Companies House, so can't say for sure if this a Tottenham Hotspur Ltd subsidiary company or not. I will see if I can trace the company when Spurs publish its accounts at the end of March/start April
Tottenham Developments Ltd is some place holding Nova Scotia Company, I believe Tottenham Hotspur Stadium Developments Limited 10148712 is the relevant company for this development. It's one of the four companies 'charged' in all our Merrill Lynch debentures, the others being
Tottenham Hotspur Football and Athletic Co. Ltd 00057186
Tottenham Hotspur Stadium Limited 10151725
Tottenham Hotspur Limited 01706358
If you look more closely at Tottenham Holdings Ltd it's financed by Laxfield LLP which in-turn is a special projects vehicle created by Laxfield Asset Management Ltd (presumably only for Tottenham) ... so who owns a stake in Laxfield? well who knows who did, but last November they all got very rich as it was bought out by CBRE Group who manage well over 100 billion of property investments ... no doubt friends of our Joesph
As usual it's a tangled web ending with anonymous shareholders in offshore companies ...
Maybe, but I cant see any mention of Tottenham Developments Ltd in Tottenham Hotspur Stadium Developments Limited, I would expect it to be listed as a subsidiary if it was.
Tottenham Holdings Ltd have a couple of interesting details :
(1) It has changed its accounting reference date recently - but not to 30 June which is Spurs companies year end suggesting its not part of the club group and
(2) There is a filing at Companies House showing Joe Lewis as a person with significant control - there aren't for other Spurs subsidiary companies suggesting this one is different and not part of the club group.
Can you direct me to any links showing that company is a Nova Scotia company ?
Agree Laxfield has a charge over the property, part of CBRE, and presumably lined up to play a part in the financing of the development.
That was my point - Tottenham Developments Ltd - is some nothing company created by someone in Nova Scotia probably hoping to make a few quid of the name ... as far as I can see it has nothing to do with us
https://opencorporates.com/companies/ca_ns/3203893
I tried to invest in some of the Spurs Companies a few years back, not a chance all closed shop ... this stuff is all interesting thanks for all the info ... bores the pants out of a lot of people but will make our club not only rich but a massive social influence in Tottenham ... hopefully a source of great pride for Spurs fans of the future.
It might be CBRE GI, but that isn't anything to do with CBRE apart from the name. They are a relatively small player in London, probably don't own any single building worth more than £50m.
Are you sure about that? .... CBRE Group are the worlds biggest commercial real estate services and investment firm ... or they were a year ago ... and whilst CBRE GI are stand alone it's still has 100 billion of assets under management ... here's the acquisition press release.
CBRE Acquires UK Debt Platform Laxfield Capital
I though they had a fair bit in London, but that may have changed.
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