Dam right we should.... It's all about risk.
60,000 people in one place vs X.
Are you a betting man?
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Dam right we should.... It's all about risk.
60,000 people in one place vs X.
Are you a betting man?
75% of the population fall into the almost zero risk category (0.011% chance of dying even if they catch Covid) that's even with no social distancing and no masks.
It's easy to keep throwing abuse at each other over a keyboard but it's pretty pointless. So let me try a different approach ....
You clearly don't believe fans should be allowed back into stadiums yet, am I correct in saying your opinion is they would become what's colloquially known as super spreaders? Whilst for a variety of reasons I don't agree that would necessarily happen, let's put that to one side.
What are the criteria regarding Covid that you would need the country to have achieved before you would be OK with crowds being allowed back in?
Not talking about 60000 but at present it is none.
Nope, I've not said that. I just think you're being too blasé about it and completely underestimating how damaging contracting Covid can be.
You've demonstrated that further by only considering death when thinking about the risk of Covid. You seem to think that unless you die that Covid isn't harmful, despite there being growing evidence that having contracted Covid can have other implications such as long term organ damage, as well as completely flooring lots of seemingly healthy people for many months, putting them in a position where they're unable to work and support their families (statutory sick pay is a fucking joke). This hasn't been around long enough to know for sure what effect it can have on people, or whether having had it once means you ca'nt contract it again. The anti body could be effective for a few weeks, a few months, or it could be effective forever but do you want to volunteer to help find out?
And yes, there is also the prospect of thousands of people gathering together all becoming super spreaders. We do need to consider who else these people will come into contact with.
We can't continue like this forever, and perhaps there comes a point where we do have to say enough is enough and let this run it's course (if it's possible for that to happen), but we need to know more about what the virus is capable of before we put the entire population at such potential risk.
My issues is people can't be trusted and have to be protected from their own stupidity and selfishness.
If you believe tens of thousands of people will all turn up and then be careful you must be very naive.
It's not even about whether they go home and pass it on, they could pass it on during their commute to strangers who aren't going to or from the game.
Letting fans back in stadiums up and down the country, especially where public transport is the only real means of getting there is a truly backwards idea as the numbers are on the rise,
It won't be a debate soon, we'll be back in lockdown and football will be cancelled again soon.
Unless I read it wrong, you have to provide them medical/written proof of your innability to go. And the criteria was quite specific.
It's all on a scale that massively outweighs a bus or an office.
........Stop fighting it; you know it makes sense.
Talk of it being about discrimination is just silly.
I'm not minimising the impact on the sick, but shutting down the country for months or even years won't cure them, and it might very well cause ten times the number of deaths Covid ever will.
As Sweden would seem to be showing the time to re-open has long since been reached, it will be a bitter pill to swallow people will die and suffer long term health issues, but we already know what the virus is capable off. In comparable western countries it kills 3% of over 50's with heath issues, it kills 0.01% of under 50's with no health issues. Staying shut in our bunkers isn't going to change that, it will just drag it out probably at a far worse cost in related issue in society.
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There will be no lock-down or football cancellation, but there will be no fans for a while either. My guess is in the New Year when the phoney phase two has long passed.
The discrimination comment was in response to a suggestion that crowds be restricted to under 50's. Age discrimination is illegal. You talk about scale and are only thinking in terms of Premiership. My local team which I admit I have never been to see is a non league team. Their season was stopped in March and never restarted. The National league does not restart until October presumably on the assumption fans can return. Their last 2 Home crowds in March were 300 and 900, the latter being a local derby. Now I cannot understand how with no income they could survive and how they could pay the players. If clubs in the lower 2 leagues of the Football league and The National leagues start packing up then the long term damage to football will be immense. The plans to bring back fans to stadiums should continue but after yesterday's announcement I doubt it will.
I watched the Test series in cricket and the empty stadium which is in the open air had no spectators and yet at the same time the beaches were packed.
So are you a Covid denier? It sounds like you either don't think there is a virus or you think it's as easy as not letting over 50's do anything?
What if a bunch of under 50's at the game are also Ocado delivery drivers taking stuff to over 50's houses?
Next comment is general and not directed at you.
I would rank football fans as the thickest of thick quite frankly. Proven it time and time and time again. You only need to spend a few days on here to observe how dense a fanbase is. If you told the fans "no over 50's" I would bet my balls they'd be everywhere on matchday. Assuming I still have my balls after winnin the bet, I would subsequently bet them on the under 50's being utterly irresponsible at the match, after the match and up until the next match.
They/we are the last people who should be trusted to be responsible and help getting things back to normal. Just despicable at times.
It's much easier to stop fans coming into a stadium than it is to stop people being in a public space.
We saw that in the early weeks of lockdown where morons were still rolling up at beaches and beauty spots and a dozen police were trying to disperse thousands of people. No one has the resource to deal with it really
If that's the case and I mistook your comment for something else, my bad, but there's been plenty of mutterings about "discrimination" against football when (eg) snooker has had reduced crowds agree.
As per the law as we typically know it, yes.... But let's see (in one context or another) if the Gov deems it necessary on H&S grounds if there isn't a motion for some kind of short term/interim bill to be passed.
i.e. What if (hypotehtically of course) C19 due to some quirk of science could only be carried and passed on by people of a certain age or profile....
When's the last time you were on a bus or in an office space with even 300 people ?
Of course this has been and remains detrimental to a lot of grass roots operations (be it football or other industries)....
You've switched back to talk of "stadiums" again which immediately veers back into the question of scale & risk... Besides, if the concerns which led to yesterday's announcements are legit then damn right it should bring these kinds of things even further into question. It would be absurd to ignore them and push on regardless.
(Your general tact however seems to ignore the fact that there have been and were plans for further test events at numerous games.... If you'd rather just open the flood gates and fuck off the idea of such an approach then your attitude is reckless to the greater good.)
That wasn't sanctioned by the government was it?
I went to IKEA (Madrid) the other day I walked in and walked out because it was chock a bloc, if things like that are allowed there are no point in any restrictions at all IMO
Our local club is open. 25% of capacity only, so only 1,000 people allowed. We use every other row, must stay 6 ft from the next party of fans, and masks are required the entire time (strict policy that they police).
Also the parking lots are closed to tailgating, (no pregame bbq/parties).
Works well here, but I live in one of the few states where the curve is flat and we're even "allowed" indoor dining.
Also the parking lots are closed to tailgating, (no pregame bbq/parties).
Works well here, but I live in one of the few states where the curve is flat and we're even "allowed" indoor dining.
Not sure where to start but rather than answer every comment it is clear you are behind everything this Government is doing on Covid. You are not alone on this forum but there are many different views.
As far as Government's recent actions the football chant 'you don't know what you are doing' seems very appropriate. I have given you the example of them allowing passengers on trains for any reason and am not sure of the numbers on the Network rail network but it is considerable. The planned trials of fans in stadiums should continue.
Now yesterdays announcement means that as both my daughters have 3 children and a partner it will be illegal for both my wife and I to go and see them. Yet as I am sure is the case throughout the Country my wife and I do not take any Covid precautions between ourselves. Therefore if my wife catches it at my daughter I will more than likely get it. Other than give us a decision to whether to ignore the law how does that make any of us safer.
You are SO wrong with that assumption.....
1. In light of yesterday's announcements; rather than repeat; validate please.
2. Have the trials actually been cancelled?
I have the utmost sympathy for that predicament....
Getting people into stadiums or encouraging similar mass gathering will only risk further prolonging the above plight....
.....Footy or family; what's it gonna be in the immediate term?
No it won't. Boris addressed this concern at the 4pm briefing.
Please elaborate with what you disagree with in the Government's handling of covid as that is the impression I am getting.
No the trials have not been cancelled yet but the Media are predicting it and so am I.
- Testing regime - How long it took to get one in place... Missed targets... The current furor about distances and results.
- The app debacle.
- The archaic track and trace system.
- Money pissed away on crap PPE.
- The fuck ups surrounding care-homes.
- Cummings-gate.
- Soft enforcement of the rules they put in place.
- Dubious infection/death figures
- A general sense of commerce > welfare
- How financial aid was distrubuted and whom was prioritised.
...Just off the top of my head. I accept that this is a difficult hand to be dealt for a government, but there's the critic's take.
Well, if they are, so be it..... Harsh, but that's reality for ya.
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