Newcastle Being Sold

  • The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss the latest matches, our players and any transfer news surrounding Spurs. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts. You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

scott

Moaning isn't moaning if its about our other fans.
I think the O&D test should look at the bidders behaviours and protect clubs from nefarious owners, it should be able to refuse a bid from a murderous regime (if they're satisfied that the bidders and the state are one and the same), but it doesn't. This has failed because the PL insisted that PIF and KSA are the same entity and therefore have been pirating the property of the Premier League for years. The buying side could have resolved these issues if it had taken sufficient measures to tackle piracy, or at least abide by the WTO ruling.

My overriding emotion is disappointment. We're stuck with Ashley for the foreseeable (and make no mistake the excitement was chiefly about getting rid of him).

You're right that the Saudis intent was not altruistic, it was purely self-serving. But honestly, if millions were pumped into the region, I'm not sure the locals would really care which government was investing there as they've been neglected by our own for so long.

Hopefully we'll still be sold, hopefully the new owners will have the ambition and wherewithal to provide a little joy on Tyneside, hopefully we can put this whole sorry saga behind us.
Much better the blood money be spent on luxury items like expensive jewels & fancy trips & hospitality than doing up the slums of newcastle. Kidding of course!
 
Comment
Funny how I'm the one pointing such clubs out to you isn't it?

Burnley aren't a European team.... Or based in London.... They run a tight as fuck ship.... Yet you'd have hounded Dyche out long ago.... Even if he'd been doing a better job than a Fat Spanish Waiter(*)....

(*Fact is the only reason you hold Rafa in high regard is a) Name value and he made you feel big time and b) cos was politicking against your owner to the press - even though he does that everywhere.)
Burnley are a decent Premier League outfit, but without significant investment and a change of personnel they won't regularly be in the European conversation and are unlikely to win a cup. You're proposing a hypothetical that doesn't stack up, if we'd been in Burnley's position our fans wouldn't have hounded him out because their rise and his part in it would have been appreciated. We didn't hound out Hughton and he played a similar brand of football with similar results.

That in brackets isn't a fact, it's your opinion, which is so obviously dripping with contempt it's rendered worthless.
 
Comment
Their fans have no time for that though.... They demand catapulting to a level that they've never attained during the last 70-odd years of the game. Ashley is just their anointed boogie-man and they've shown they're happy to spin all sorts of negative and contradictory BS to maintain this vilification.

....Preston North End were a successful team if you hark back for a century. I don't see them expressing a devine right to the big time.

Sunderland have a hefty supporter base and are more successful if you dig back just as far .... You don't see them carrying on the way the Barcodes do with their quasi-Liverpool "it means more up here" pretentions.

"Sunderland have the superior record of league titles - six to Newcastle's four"

Aston Villa have 7 league titles, 7 FA Cups, 5 League Cups and a European Cup to their name, granted most of those were pre-war, I don't hear the same from them either.
 
Comment

Airfixx

Eroding the true defnition of glory since 1976...
Burnley are a decent Premier League outfit, but without significant investment and a change of personnel they won't regularly be in the European conversation and are unlikely to win a cup.
What's that got to do with anything?

They've shown growth and progress on the pitch without significant investment, yet you'd rather look at Everton with Envy... Who's been in Europe more recently of the two?

You're proposing a hypothetical that doesn't stack up, if we'd been in Burnley's position our fans wouldn't have hounded him out because their rise and his part in it would have been appreciated.
It stacks up because if you'd treated him like you did/do Sam & Bruce he'd never be around for you to see the the rise happen.

We didn't hound out Hughton and he played a similar brand of football with similar results....
He got you promoted despite your 'evil' owner yet you shed no tears when he was sacked a short way into the next season.... Why not rally behind him like you did Rafa?

That in brackets isn't a fact, it's your opinion, which is so obviously dripping with contempt it's rendered worthless.
It's a picture painted by the attitude and rhetoric of your fans. The football was shit and all he did was get you promoted, yet unlike Hughton you treated him like a god. What reasons did I miss? What was so preferable than Hughton?


Been here before with you.... You had no plausible defense so I don't expect any different this time around.

For you:

 
Last edited:
Comment

JohnH

Supporter
Where Poch made us dare... José will make us do!!
Fwiw would you agree with that list? That Celtic are a bigger club than Spurs?
Bigger doesn't necessarily mean better, especially when comparing Scotland to England. They're bigger and better than Newcastle though.
 
Comment
Aston Villa have 7 league titles, 7 FA Cups, 5 League Cups and a European Cup to their name, granted most of those were pre-war, I don't hear the same from them either.
They must be shittiest team to win the European Cup though. I think Bayern Munich must have spent the night before on the piss as they thought it would be a walkover.
 
Comment
You're absolutely right, we should be producing the talent through the youth system, but it's not been invested in for over a decade now. We're the only only club for miles around, the closest top flight club is now Leeds. We should be hoovering talent from Cumbria and Northumbria, all the way down to Yorkshire. Instead, we're spending £40m on a forward who has never been a goalscorer.

Part of the PIF proposal was local investment and Amanda Staveley has repeatedly said this investment wouldn't be a Chelsea/Man City splurge, but a patient approach more akin to the one you allude to.
A youth system is easily affordable NOW by Nrewcastle.

You have one already so upgrading it might cost £5m - £10m pa to produce perhaps 2 players a year into your first team squad - some will move on as ultimately they are not deemed 'good enough' by Newcastle, but certainly realistic to think of having maybe 6 players in the first team within 4-5 years.

However - and here's the rub - too many fans want instant gratification of a big splurge of money.

But if you got some players through your academy it means you dont need to buy as many and you can be more selective about the players you buy. And buying players has aleways been a 50/50 chance as to whether they live up to expectation.

So try getting the Newcastele fans to get behind better funding and better players out of the Newcastle youth system - its ultimately fundable by Ashley and accaotable by the manager, providing he's got the long term interests of the club at heart.

But as I say, you may find to many fans just wating a big splurge of money ala ManCity and Chelsea without wishing to realise that its only 2 clubs who have that type of backing.
 
Comment
What's that got to do with anything?
That my aspirations are beyond Burnley.

They've shown growth and progress on the pitch without significant investment, yet you'd rather look at Everton with Envy... Who's been in Europe more recently of the two?
And yet they are still, rightly, a less attractive club to investors, fans, players than Everton, or Southampton.

It stacks up because if you'd treated him like you did/do Sam & Bruce he'd never be around for you to see the the rise happen.
We wanted Allardyce out because he gutted a decent team to turn us into cloggers who played shit football. Allardyce turned us into a team that aimed to survive relegation and from where we were before he took charge, that was a deliberate decline. We didn't want Bruce because he's an unambitious appointment that is widely and rightfully criticised for both his football and the legacy he leaves behind at a club. Can you think of a single top flight club who would have given Steve Bruce a job at the beginning of the season? Because I can't.

If we'd been as Burnley were we'd not have hounded him out. It's a completely different situation to ours. Tell you what, if Newcastle get relegated next season and kick about the lower leagues for 33yrs, then return with a pragmatic manager who gets relegated and we hound him out, I'll come back on and apologise.

He got you promoted despite your 'evil' owner yet you shed no tears when he was sacked a short way into the next season.... Why not rally behind him like you did Rafa?
Hughton is loved on Tyneside, few if any wanted him gone, few if any were pleased that he was replaced by Pardew. Hughton was then and remains now a firm favourite. If his exit was as public and protracted we absolutely would have rallied around him, but we weren't given a chance. He was fired after a two minute conversation. So, yet again, you're talking shit.

It's a picture painted by the attitude and rhetoric of your fans. The football was shit and all he did was get you promoted, yet unlike Houghton you treated him like a god. What reasons did I miss? What was so preferable than Houghton?
Again, we loved Hughton, I don't know where you get the idea we didn't/don't... beyond it not fitting with your petty bias.

Benitez offered something more though, we believed he could not only get us back to the Premier League, we believed he could honestly deliver top half finishes and maybe even silverware if he was given more control, a belief that didn't exist for Hughton. I think both managers' CVs bear out the varying levels of belief.
 
Comment
A youth system is easily affordable NOW by Nrewcastle.

You have one already so upgrading it might cost £5m - £10m pa to produce perhaps 2 players a year into your first team squad - some will move on as ultimately they are not deemed 'good enough' by Newcastle, but certainly realistic to think of having maybe 6 players in the first team within 4-5 years.

However - and here's the rub - too many fans want instant gratification of a big splurge of money.

But if you got some players through your academy it means you dont need to buy as many and you can be more selective about the players you buy. And buying players has aleways been a 50/50 chance as to whether they live up to expectation.

So try getting the Newcastele fans to get behind better funding and better players out of the Newcastle youth system - its ultimately fundable by Ashley and accaotable by the manager, providing he's got the long term interests of the club at heart.

But as I say, you may find to many fans just wating a big splurge of money ala ManCity and Chelsea without wishing to realise that its only 2 clubs who have that type of backing.
Afraid you've got that wholly wrong. The fans want investment in the academy, in the facilites, we've been crying out for it for pretty much the entirety of Ashley's tenure. But Ashley didn't want to. he announced plans (via Kinnear) for significant investment, but it's never happened. He's stated (via Charnley) that the facilities are 'fit for purpose' and that 'no player has turned down a club because of it's training ground.'.

The rhetoric from the buying side was all about patient rebuilding, the academy and the training ground were mentioned early on as things they wanted to invest in.

Having an academy of a good standard is, for me, the most important thing. If you can regularly produce players for the first team, or for profit, you're golden. Bring an Adam Armstrong through the ranks and boom, there's £1.5m which can go towards the running of the academy, bring through a Sean Longstaff and that could be north of £10m!

You're criticising the fans for something we have literally no power to affect. We've protested our owner for over a decade, we've demanded change, investment, honesty and we get nowt.
 
Comment
Afraid you've got that wholly wrong. The fans want investment in the academy, in the facilites, we've been crying out for it for pretty much the entirety of Ashley's tenure. But Ashley didn't want to. he announced plans (via Kinnear) for significant investment, but it's never happened. He's stated (via Charnley) that the facilities are 'fit for purpose' and that 'no player has turned down a club because of it's training ground.'.

The rhetoric from the buying side was all about patient rebuilding, the academy and the training ground were mentioned early on as things they wanted to invest in.

Having an academy of a good standard is, for me, the most important thing. If you can regularly produce players for the first team, or for profit, you're golden. Bring an Adam Armstrong through the ranks and boom, there's £1.5m which can go towards the running of the academy, bring through a Sean Longstaff and that could be north of £10m!

You're criticising the fans for something we have literally no power to affect. We've protested our owner for over a decade, we've demanded change, investment, honesty and we get nowt.
I didnt say training ground or facilities, I said academy/youth. And I didnt say 'more investment''

But that means diverting funds (maybe £10m pa - but even £5m could make a difference+) from transfer fund/player wages (or wherever) into getting the youngsters in (and Newcastle have got a great catchment area - its just that even going back to Shearer and Carrick, the better players went elsewhere, to Southampton in Shearer's case and West Ham in Carrick's case - and Wham's youth facilities are still shit) and developing them.

As I say, once the acdemy starts to produce youth players its a big advantage. But it is a long term investment of maybe 3-5 years to get markedly better players through - hence not popular with many fans.
 
Comment

Airfixx

Eroding the true defnition of glory since 1976...
That my aspirations are beyond Burnley.
....So are Burnley's presumably, but in the meantime, they're on a plausible track without having to see out to the dirty petro-dosh.

....So were ours when we adopted a sustainable financial model.

...So were Everton's when the splashed 550m and were no better off for it.

And yet they are still, rightly, a less attractive club to investors, fans, players than Everton, or Southampton.
Meh... Here you are again taking about more investment (i.e. £££) rather than better scouting (see 40m Joelinton) and so forth....

Again, I ask; who's most recently been in Europe? .....Burnley, Saints, Everton or Newcastle?

Spoiler: It's in that order.

We wanted Allardyce out because he gutted a decent team to turn us into cloggers who played shit football. Allardyce turned us into a team that aimed to survive relegation
I thought you said that was Ashley? :roll:

and from where we were before he took charge, that was a deliberate decline.
Allardyce "deliberately" made you worse? The state of you!!! :roll:

We didn't want Bruce because he's an unambitious appointment that is widely and rightfully criticised for both his football and the legacy he leaves behind at a club.
You still refuse to explain why he's any worse than Rafa apart from the 2 things I noted.

Can you think of a single top flight club who would have given Steve Bruce a job at the beginning of the season? Because I can't.
To what ends? Will this somehow mean he did a bad job or that Rafa was better?

Let's face it... You got NOTHING of value to counter with on this front.

If we'd been as Burnley were we'd not have hounded him out.
You (hypothetically) would if non-sexy football is a crime around your way.

It's a completely different situation to ours.
Yeh, they're a #SMALLER club that aren't reliant upon arab take-overs to make a fist of the EPL even though they spend fuck all from year to year.

Tell you what, if Newcastle get relegated next season and kick about the lower leagues for 33yrs, then return with a pragmatic manager who gets relegated and we hound him out, I'll come back on and apologise.
What the fuck are you babbling on about? (Rhetorical question... Don't feel obliged to answer)
 
Comment
I didnt say training ground or facilities, I said academy/youth. And I didnt say 'more investment''

But that means diverting funds (maybe £10m pa - but even £5m could make a difference+) from transfer fund/player wages (or wherever) into getting the youngsters in (and Newcastle have got a great catchment area - its just that even going back to Shearer and Carrick, the better players went elsewhere, to Southampton in Shearer's case and West Ham in Carrick's case - and Wham's youth facilities are still shit) and developing them.

As I say, once the acdemy starts to produce youth players its a big advantage. But it is a long term investment of maybe 3-5 years to get markedly better players through - hence not popular with many fans.
I dunno if you read my post in full, but I completely agree that investment in the academy is vital. Fans have wanted that for years. We were only getting back to a good place during Robson's tenure after Keegan ditched the U21 team (because they'd be forced to play on St James' already knackered pitch) in the late 90s.

But Ashley hasn't invested in the academy significantly since the takeover and Newcastle fans have tried to pressure him to do so. We've raised it in the quickly abandoned fans forums, we've raised the issue with MPs, we've mentioned it when bemoaning the owner in the press.

You seem to be operating under the misconception that Newcastle fans don't care about local lads playing for the squad. But I tell you this, if Ashley spent £10m on the academy this summer, nobody would complain, even if that came out of an already modest transfer budget of £35m.
 
Comment
....So are Burnley's presumably, but in the meantime, they're on a plausible track without having to see out to the dirty petro-dosh.

....So were ours when we adopted a sustainable financial model.

...So were Everton's when the splashed 550m and were no better off for it.
You asked why I didn't aspire to Burnley, I don't because I see the ceiling to their ambitions is lower than I'd want, whereas Everton's ambitions are where I want Newcastle to be aiming for.

Meh... Here you are again taking about more investment (i.e. £££) rather than better scouting (see 40m Joelinton) and so forth....
Investment in the club from sponsors etc. It wasn't a complicated point, I'm shocked you missed it.

Again, I ask; who's most recently been in Europe? .....Burnley, Saints, Everton or Newcastle?

Spoiler: It's in that order.
Again, I'd rather Southampton or Everton's ambitions ahead of Burnley's.



I thought you said that was Ashley? :roll:
Ashley turned us into a club aiming for survival. Allardyce fucked the team over.



Allardyce "deliberately" made you worse? The state of you!!! :roll:
Allardyce deliberately got rid of technically gifted midfielders and replaced them with cloggers. He built a team to not lose, rather than one aiming for Europe.



You still refuse to explain why he's any worse than Rafa apart from the 2 things I noted.
Chances created, chances permitted, goals scored, goals conceded, points won, defensive strength, attacking efficacy, midfield control, tactical acumen, tactical reaction, game management, squad management, ambition, I could go on if you like?



To what ends? Will this somehow mean he did a bad job or that Rafa was better?

Let's face it... You got NOTHING of value to counter with on this front.
It's evidence that Bruce was not an ambitious appointment, it wasn't a sound appointment based on a long term plan, it was a "Fuck it, lets get one of the old guard in, that'll do." No other team wanted him because he doesn't take a team forward, he's not a successful manager, he's not a young manager with the potential to improve. He's like Moyes, or Pardew, or McClarenor Allardyce.


You (hypothetically) would if non-sexy football is a crime around your way.
Yet we warmly took to Hguhton's pragmatic football, and to Benitez's too. So that's another talksport line of bullshit. "Geordies would rather lose 4-3 than win 1-0" It's bollocks.



Yeh, they're a #SMALLER club that aren't reliant upon arab take-overs to make a fist of the EPL even though they spend fuck all from year to year.
We don't need a Saudi takeover to make a fist of the Premier League, we need an owner with the ambition and wherewithal to deliver. Hell, Ashley could deliver a decent return if only he employed the right people and allowed them control instead of Joe Kinnear, Dennis Wise, Alan Pardew, John Carver, Steve McClaren, and Steve Bruce.


What the fuck are you babbling on about? (Rhetorical question... Don't feel obliged to answer)
Pretty obvious isn't it? The position above was Burnley's position when they stuck with Dyche.
 
Comment
Top Bottom