There is a narrative that irritates me. It goes something like ‘signing someone NOW is more important than ever, this moment right now and everything will collapse if we don’t’.
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It happens when it happens and I'm going to fucking love it when it does...meanwhile I'm going to enjoy being a Spurs fan regardless...besides that, being a Spurs fan and having expectations has always been a hazardous journey, usually ending in disappointment...When exactly should we start expecting him to deliver silverware? In 5 years time, 10’years?
No is I don’t but I also do not try convince myself that CL participation will elevate us to a level that it simply cannot. One of the primary issues is this obsession with CL football - when the main objective becomes securing additional revenues is it any wonder that doesn’t win anything?
They gained promotion 20 years ago - do you think our supporter bases were concerned by our relegation in the ‘70s when we won silverware in the ‘80s? Again you are marooned in another decade - in another time and team. Had we won the league in the last couple of years I wouldn’t have felt the need to reference the ‘90s because what would the point of that be? Are you trying to tell me winning the league would mean more to a supporter who had experienced the 90s than one who grew up in the 00s? I don’t believe that for one second. And again you are being highly selective with the time frames - the point of reference is alway a troubled time. You do this because it’s avoids disappointment - because it is the easy way out. Using failed eras as the reference point will always result in achievement - but achievements that no one outside of the supporter base respects.
A false sense of entitlement? Are you serious? Expectations should be set on the players that we have and we have had one of the most talented teams in the league for the last 5 seasons. What is false is your position because it disregards this and instead centres of historic failures. We could have the 70s Brazil team playing for us and yet the supporter base would claim that we shouldn’t have the expectation of trophies whilst endlessly elevating league placings and semi final finishes. There is a compete disconnect between the talent we have and the expectations that supporters have for this team. In truth you don’t believe we deserve our place with the best.
Steve P???I try, I should also say that this was written before our day off signings and I was getting annoyed with the posters despair at not having made a transfer in June. Instead of replying and getting angrier I thought I'd put it all down.
Nothing wrong with it....but when it's beaten over your head for the nth time it can get a tad wearying...Why is the Hoods opinion so I'm palatable for some of you guys ?
I don't share his opinion at all but I can see how such opinions can be formed , as far as I can tell he's not abusive or particularly condescending.
Loved every word and sentimentI try, I should also say that this was written before our day off signings and I was getting annoyed with the posters despair at not having made a transfer in June. Instead of replying and getting angrier I thought I'd put it all down.
It's a good, balanced read but ibetwixt the margins so are 99.5% of fans.
The writer forgets those fans who only arrived at the top 4 party. Why should they look back? Indeed how can they?
People are 100% entitled to their opinions but I think too much is inferred by the posts people make.
But let’s put that aside because there is other issues at play. The mentality of the supporter base is also to blame. This endless referencing of failed eras is hugely damaging - I don’t care if you remember the 90s - what relevance does those teams have to this one? We shouldn’t be setting expectations around failed teams and failed eras - it should be based on what we have now relative to our peers.
That’s why this laissez faire approach from so may of our supporters is so infuriating. The notion that we don’t have to believe that this is the time now is quite frankly absurd. The club has built a team that typically comes around once in a generation - it’s gone nearly 30 years since its last FA Cup win, nearly 40 since a UEFA cup win. It has to capitalise on that and it hasn’t - that can’t be disputed.
I agree that obsessing over CL participation isn't the 'be all and end all' but it's enjoyable to be there, even you must have enjoyed the run this season, I mean the final was poor but the City & Ajax games were classics, surely even taking the money element out it can only be good for the club to pit itself against the best teams in Europe, if we're to improve playing against strong opposition can only help, surely you have to accept that premise?
You're being selective here not me, if you think that in 81' there were no fans who witnessed our relegation in '77 then I'm struggling to see your point. You're trying to create an idea that no period of success relates to a period of failure, you're doing it to fit the narrative of your argument, that people only think of success and not the journey up to that point. My point is that to succeed you have to fail otherwise you don't get to understand the value of it.
I am trying to say that the longer you support a team the more you know it and as time goes by you know how to contextualise your experience of it. It's not true of everyone and I'm pretty sure it's not true about you but that's just seems like common sense to me. The longer you live, the more you know yourself, your faults, your strengths, how you react to success, how you deal with things when they get you down. Very few people say that time has no effect upon them.
Let's take your argument that my outlook avoids disappointment, is that a bad a thing? Should I be hurt and angry if we don't perform? Should I call out every player, the manager and board on social media? Maybe go home and make some placards to stand outside the ground with? Is that a rational or better way to deal with things? We clearly see things very differently.
And this is the killer, as you're not a fan of harking back to long lost eras, let's take last season. That season only one team won any domestic titles, no one else. I can't decry our team for not being Man City and essentially that's what you're expecting the fan base to do.
We have a talented squad, some immense players, a great manager, fantastic set up, I am delighted with what we have and I think we have potential to improve. We don't however have the firepower to spend a billion pounds on our squad and I'm not going to get angry with our club our supporters for that fact of life. Because to do so is basically the false entitlement that I'm alluding to.
It's been fun discussing this Hood but I think the only thing we're going to agree upon is we're not going to agree.
I know we've been through this a hundred times......
But then what mate? when you're-evaluate' your support after a poor season or two?
Either you:
Oh, and let's not deliberately confuse 'steadfast support' with 'lack of ambition'.
- continue to support the club, through thick and thin, come what may - what some people call 'happy clappers', or
- moan about your club all the fucking time because they are 'disappointing' you and, after all, the world revolves around your feelings, or
- decide to support another club that wins pretty silver cups, because that's what makes you happy.
You'll have guessed where I am on the spectrum and this is uncomfortable, because the implication is that 'we' think we are 'better supporters' than 'them', which naturally causes resentment amongst our broad church - but I can't se any other logical inference.
It's a good, balanced read but ibetwixt the margins so are 99.5% of fans.
The writer forgets those fans who only arrived at the top 4 party. Why should they look back? Indeed how can they?
People are 100% entitled to their opinions but I think too much is inferred by the posts people make.
It’s an extremely unhealthy position for a club to find itself in when it has this level of talent, has gone this period of time without a trophy and the majority of the supporter base is completely passive to this.
I know I’m new here, but I’d love a trophy - who wouldn’t but - and this is the kicker - for the long term health of the club that we all love, the truth (at this present time) is that the CL qualification is much more valuable to our longevity than any single piece of silverware. And, I guess, when it comes down to ‘3 points at Brighton on Saturday’ vs ‘best team out in Rd 3 League Cup on Wednesday’, those three points could be worth nearly a hundred million pounds, as they were last season with our run to the final.
Is the alternative the Mourinho model - win some trophies, but leave the club disintegrating? We can’t compare with City because of the money, nor any of the other ‘top’ teams. Compare to Atletico - similar position in terms of ‘big boys’ - the increase in PL vs La Liga is negated as different leagues and cups and, then, we’re about right: challenging, competing, getting close. We’re Atletico, not Real, we’re Dortmund, not Bayern (dodgy example, but you get the sentiment)...it’s just where we are in the pecking order at the moment. Frustrating, but true.
It's gonna be funny when we see the exact same thread posted after the end of next season.
Yeah, I fucking hate reading about how people like our manager...makes me wish we had Neil Warnock instead...I take you also complain about the endless accolades levelled at Pochettino as well then? Im a drop in the ocean compared to that - you must take huge issue with that level of repetition.
People pay to see football to be entertained that's the whole fucking point, not every team can win trophies but if they play decent football fans will happily pay money to see it....If every fan was only in to see trophies being won then what would be the point of existence for 99.999999999% of all football teams?Because that’s what I said was it.
The point is unattractive football is deemed unacceptable but a decade without silverware ( despite having two top sides) is.
That tells me the mentality and mindset of the supporter base is clearly not right.
Excuse me for butting in, and I may be way off the mark, but it comes across that you want Poch to fail miserably, so you can say "I told you so".He asked me what I’m expecting next season and I said silverware because with the team we have we should be expecting that.
As I said before there is no hiding place left for Pochettino - the stadium excuses is gone, the spend excuse is no longer there. If he fails again next season I suspect manager more are going to start to wake up to this.
It’s the role of the manager to get them to perform, to implement the right formation and tactics, to give them the required mindset.
This is is level I have to contend with - absolutely no point in the thread have I said Poch out or talked about the Champions League Final.
It’s does make me laugh that when people claim the manager is not to blame for a poor performance it’s the players. It’s the role of the manager to get them to perform, to implement the right formation and tactics, to give them the required mindset.
We had been in free fall results once since February resulting in our worst run since 2008. But that had no bearing on the CL final of course and the manager isn't responsible for getting results he?