I think thats the point though isn't it. We're not as big in terms of reputation, competitions or wages as those other teams, whereas 3-4 seasons ago we were actually in with a shout of getting players over Liverpool etc. Now all we do is hope to sign Mousthacio and get someone else instead , Schneiderlin and get whoever else instead, we cant get our first choices. From memory even Erkisen and Lamela were second choices to someone else (although I still hope they will prove they were a better choice).
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Reality Check
- Thread starter ArcspacE
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I think thats the point though isn't it. We're not as big in terms of reputation, competitions or wages as those other teams, whereas 3-4 seasons ago we were actually in with a shout of getting players over Liverpool etc. Now all we do is hope to sign Mousthacio and get someone else instead , Schneiderlin and get whoever else instead, we cant get our first choices. From memory even Erkisen and Lamela were second choices to someone else (although I still hope they will prove they were a better choice).
I fully expected we'd lose. We'd scraped a lucky win against the Spammers, looked ordinary against Limassol away and beaten up a Championship level outfit in QPR. Then we decided to play a high pressing game against the best counter-attacking team in the league (y'know, like AVB did when they gubbed us last year) and hey presto... defeat.
New / replacement players won't solve the issue that if you leave a lot of space behind your midfielders then your defence won't hold a formation. Barcelona got away with it because, well Barcelona. We'll get away with it plenty of times this season because we'll play teams who can't counter attack effectively.
It's too early to make any kind of call on Poch or this Spurs team but I've been banging the drum for the last two weeks that some fans/journo's are seeing a false dawn off the back of some iffy performances and jumping the gun on Poch's 'improvements'. This game reinforced that while progress seems to be happening, calling a 'result' on the Poch era now is like calling the result of a Premier league game after the first 3 minutes.
New / replacement players won't solve the issue that if you leave a lot of space behind your midfielders then your defence won't hold a formation. Barcelona got away with it because, well Barcelona. We'll get away with it plenty of times this season because we'll play teams who can't counter attack effectively.
It's too early to make any kind of call on Poch or this Spurs team but I've been banging the drum for the last two weeks that some fans/journo's are seeing a false dawn off the back of some iffy performances and jumping the gun on Poch's 'improvements'. This game reinforced that while progress seems to be happening, calling a 'result' on the Poch era now is like calling the result of a Premier league game after the first 3 minutes.
But that is because Liverpool were finishing 7th. I think the examples you have mentioned are not the best. Schneiderlin wasn't allowed to leave and Mousthacio has a very complicated owenership agreement.
Why do you think we are not getting our first choices if that is a problem?
Because we are finishing 6th
ochfacepalm: or at least the general opinion is that we are not as good as the top 5 teams. Typically if theres a good player looking to come to the PL he will have a choice of at least one other top PL club or even top CL teams abroad. We're simply at the bottom of the pile choice wise. I do think the difference now (to where we were before) is that because we had a lot of players were up and coming and had a knack for signing and developing them. Now we just seem to sign average shit for expensive prices. I dont think the footballing price inflation helps either, you really do have to pay ridiculous prices now and I think the top teams have much bigger squads than they used to which makes it worse.
But that goes both ways. I didnt see anyone saying that all our problems had gone away, just that we were playing with more direction and intent. Thats an improvement.
The performances were not iffy. We had 10 men for 70 minutes against West Ham, away, on opening day against a team whos only goal in life is to finish higher than us.
We trounced Limassol in the end, and spanked QPR.
It feels like people are pretty quick to dismiss wins as "lucky/dodgy" and giving us no real indication of anything, but are as quick to say a defeat tells us a great deal.
Under AVB, for many, it wasnt the results (before around November at least), it was the "style" of play.
Most people were happy to see Sherwood open up our play from the rigid shite.
Poch has taken it a step further, and once he finalizes and implements his first team, then we can get more of a picture, and that goes both ways, win, lose or draw.
The Liverpool game doesnt tell us any more than the QPR game right now.
Honestly I think I do need a reality check, 12 years ago I would have never expected to beat Liverpool, Chelsea, etc Now whenever the game comes up I find myself not quite 'expecting' a win but certainly finding more pain in defeat. I remember watching us vs Utd around 2008 and getting beat 3-0 but playing fairly well and I took much less pain from that. I kind of just accepted that they were a better team and we had played well despite the scoreline. Now every time we suffer a more than 1 goal defeat I flip out!
So we both are essentially making the same pointBecause we are finishing 6th
I do think the difference now (to where we were before) is that because we had a lot of players were up and coming and had a knack for signing and developing them. Now we just seem to sign average shit for expensive prices. I dont think the footballing price inflation helps either, you really do have to pay ridiculous prices now and I think the top teams have much bigger squads than they used to which makes it worse.
Because we have gone backwards it even harder for us to compete in the market with Liverpool, Chelsea, City. So we have to settle for 'players with potential' or simply just not top quality
Yes, though I think the reason we managed to get into a position above Liverpool and into the top 4 was partially down to the 'young potential' players we signed. Now I think we just sign players pretending to have potential. Will have to wait and see with Eriksen and Lamela, if they don't fulfil their potential I think we are really going to be in serious shit this season and next season.
Sometimes you find a gem. Sometimes you find shit. Thats the risk of buying potential. Just ask Alex Ferg about that. They have brought so many duds in there time but like at what they did get. Vidic being a good example.
What were your targets at the start of the season? Do you expect CL, top 4? Or would you accept a top 7 finish? I peoples view on the current issues will depend on there own expectations. I hated every second of last season because I expected greatness. This season I have sat back and (in my opinion) been more realistic. With the money, squad, change in manager etc I think we should be expecting a top 7-5 finish.
West Ham were the better team before we had a man sent off and on the balance of chances should have put us to bed. It was a good performance after the sending off, but overall West Ham will have felt somewhat robbed.
In the end, yeah. But Limassol more than held their own until midway through the 2nd half in the first leg and could have easily gone a couple of goals up before we hit back. QPR was much better from us but against a very poor QPR team who were fortunate to get promotion last season.
Funnily enough, thats what I said before the match. Sunderland away will probably tell us more about whether the team is actually moving in the right direction. The main difference between Poch and AVB that I can see is an emphasis on speed of ball when we do get possession, which is very welcome. AVB's side took so long getting the ball into a dangerous area that defences were comfortably able to organise and neutralise any threat.
True they have signed a lot of shite, you could argue they are paying the price for that also now and even the mega bucks aren't saving them.
I think 5th or 6th for me, Man U look a lot more shocking than I expected, I could ambitiously hope for 5th above Utd. I really think we should finish above Everton whatever the case. Aside from that play better football (so many games last season were just a dire watch because of how bad we were) and stop getting thumped by the big teams is a must.
I would be happy with 5th as realistically it is where we belong. I just want to be able to go to the lane, have a couple of beers and enjoy the football I am watching. We all need to remember that where we are today is a million miles from the mid-90's dark ages
ne fucking game, three league games in. Against a team that finished second last season.
Some teams and tactics just don't work well against others. This is a write off.
Id already moved on by half time.
Some teams and tactics just don't work well against others. This is a write off.
Id already moved on by half time.
This thread is so shit. The expert thread starter was telling me why I was wrong to suggest that Rose would be targeted again by Liverpool before the game. Where was he for the opening goal cross? Only ade and eriksen were further forward. Our centerback Jan was covering for Rose. Then mouth breathers like the op wonder why Kaboul is being pressured so hard.
Poch just made the same mistakes as 6 previous managers before him. Ignored the soft streak of piss that are our flanks. Will he learn? He has to because our soft frailties cost nearly every previous prem manager his job.
We don't need signings. We just need to shuffle so our previous NEON GLOWING WEAKNESS THAT ARE OUR WINGERS AND WINGBACKS ARE ERADICATED FROM TBE CLUB.
Townsend, Rose, Naughton and Lennon out of the squad. Not just the starting g 11, but COMPLETELY OUT OF THE SQUAD is what Poch needs to do.
And before arseface bleats about me hating wingers, and brings up Bale etc: I don't hate wingers. I just don't rate our particular dumbass wingers.
Dumb, soft, selfish and arrogant and worth about 10 prem goals and assists a season COMBINED so what's the fucking point?
Walker is the only one worth a damn and he should be converted to a rightback because he can't cross, shoot or pick a lock either but he's a damn good defender when he's not over stretched due to our wingydingz losing the ball time and time again resulting in a foot race.
You drop these players, and everything else will improve off the ball.
Poch just made the same mistakes as 6 previous managers before him. Ignored the soft streak of piss that are our flanks. Will he learn? He has to because our soft frailties cost nearly every previous prem manager his job.
We don't need signings. We just need to shuffle so our previous NEON GLOWING WEAKNESS THAT ARE OUR WINGERS AND WINGBACKS ARE ERADICATED FROM TBE CLUB.
Townsend, Rose, Naughton and Lennon out of the squad. Not just the starting g 11, but COMPLETELY OUT OF THE SQUAD is what Poch needs to do.
And before arseface bleats about me hating wingers, and brings up Bale etc: I don't hate wingers. I just don't rate our particular dumbass wingers.
Dumb, soft, selfish and arrogant and worth about 10 prem goals and assists a season COMBINED so what's the fucking point?
Walker is the only one worth a damn and he should be converted to a rightback because he can't cross, shoot or pick a lock either but he's a damn good defender when he's not over stretched due to our wingydingz losing the ball time and time again resulting in a foot race.
You drop these players, and everything else will improve off the ball.
Pressing against the best counter attacking team in the prem and maybe after Real Madrid anywhere is always a risky strategy. Would be harder for Liverpool maybe to play west ham or stoke as they sit back and allow no room behind.
Also get a feeling the technical aspects of pochs ideas might take 3-6 months to fully ingrain themselves within the players, plus with fazio hopefully replacing Kaboul we can cut down on weaker areas that is if fazio is as good as they say he is.
Agreed with most of the above
Most important thing for Dear Poch is to learn from his mistakes - just like David Brent did and almost won the PL last season following a dross first year
COYS
We have a squad that can get 4th. If we hamstring ourselves with wingers that can't score or create and wingbacks that can't defend it's a miracle we competed in the first place.
We almost did get 4th, twice. You take these soft, unproductive unintelligent players out of the team and we can only get better.
Defoe, Ade, Soldado, Kane etc all had droughts with Townsend, Rose, Naughton, Walker and Lennon turning our wings into the stupidest shankfest I've ever witnessed. And we STILL almost made 4th.
Liverpool was a blip against a team that are genuinely better than us. We still had the tradmarks of a Pochettino gameplan in that we were trying to press them high up the field and play possession football. It didnt work, they were better than us and all we have to do is have faith and move on.
Reality check, yes, but one result doesn't undo our good work so far this season.
Onwards. Upwards.
Reality check, yes, but one result doesn't undo our good work so far this season.
Onwards. Upwards.
I thought most people fully accepted top 4 was out of reach this year ?