Serge Aurier

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I could almost........almost deal with his inadequacies in the attack, if his defense wasn’t so suspect. (Red cards, PK’s). Middle third he’s brilliant.
:mourthumb:
 
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I'm left wondering who/where are all of these mystical, mysterious, magical, incredible "crossers of the ball" I keep reading about on this forum?

There are only 2 fullbacks in the Premier League with more assists than Serge.

I'm super confused because it's "common sense" that Serge is "fucking shite" at crosses... but... he has more assists than everyone save TAA & Robertson...
 
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I'm left wondering who/where are all of these mystical, mysterious, magical, incredible "crossers of the ball" I keep reading about on this forum?

There are only 2 fullbacks in the Premier League with more assists than Serge.

I'm super confused because it's "common sense" that Serge is "fucking shite" at crosses... but... he has more assists than everyone save TAA & Robertson...
Its almost like assists are not a direct correlation to how good a crosser of the ball you are.

You can keep trying to harp on this meaningless stat but all it does is reinforce how little it tells us about a players ability as Aurier is garbage at crossing the ball and garbage offensively as well.
 
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Its almost like assists are not a direct correlation to how good a crosser of the ball you are.

You can keep trying to harp on this meaningless stat but all it does is reinforce how little it tells us about a players ability as Aurier is garbage at crossing the ball and garbage offensively as well.
I see.

So, how does one determine what a good cross is?
What is a direct correlation for determining how good of a crosser a player is?

It's conceivable that I don't understand what a good cross is... perhaps you could provide an example or two of a "good crosser of the ball"... shouldn't be difficult as you seem to think that there are at least 15 better RBs in the PL .

What are the metrics you use to determine who is and who isn't "garbage offensively"?
 
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I see.

So, how does one determine what a good cross is?
What is a direct correlation for determining how good of a crosser a player is?

It's conceivable that I don't understand what a good cross is... perhaps you could provide an example or two of a "good crosser of the ball"... shouldn't be difficult as you seem to think that there are at least 15 better RBs in the PL .

What are the metrics you use to determine who is and who isn't "garbage offensively"?
Don’t you know? It is his eyes. He decided based on what he feeeeels
 
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Don’t you know? It is his eyes. He decided based on what he feeeeels
I don't have the heart to tell him/her/they that the best teams don't cross the ball very often as crossing is "not only a decidedly inefficient way to create scoring chances, but that crosses have such a profoundly negative impact on goal scoring that leading teams should abandon the tactic altogether."

From the Wall Street Journal:

Are Outdated Soccer Tactics a Cross to Bear? Possession is the Way to Goal
Stats Suggest Crossing the Ball May be the Most Imprecise and Inefficient Tactic in Today's Game

Striker Andy Carroll didn't make the England squad as modern soccer tactics change.
GETTY IMAGES
By
Jonathan Clegg
Updated June 5, 2014 8:21 pm ET

You don't need a psychic octopus to tell you that England probably won't win the 2014 World Cup.
The Three Lions have a fiendishly difficult group, an inexperienced pair of center backs and a chronic aversion to penalty shootouts.
But according to a growing school of thought in soccer circles, there may be a more fundamental reason why England's World Cup campaign is doomed before it has even begun: They cross the ball too much.
In a sport that has long been ridiculed for its lack of scoring, the notion that directing the ball toward the goal could be detrimental to a team's chances this summer may sound absurd. Crossing from the left or right to a teammate stationed inside the penalty area is one of the oldest and, supposedly, simplest ways to score in soccer.

But for a number of reasons, this age-old tactic is at the center of a nascent debate about how the modern game should be played.
While coaches and players remain committed to crossing as a means of creating scoring opportunities, statisticians and academics suggest the cross may be the most imprecise, inefficient and thoroughly ill-advised tactic in today's game.
"It's been one of the big talking points of the season," said Robbie Fowler, a former England national-team player. "Teams are getting smarter about how they attack and there's this idea that crossing has become a bit old-fashioned."
It is hardly a secret that crossing from out wide is a relatively low-percentage strategy. There are few tasks on a soccer field as formidable as attempting to deliver a high ball to a teammate in a crowded penalty area—all from a distance of some 30 yards while moving at full speed.
Only recently, however, has serious attention been paid to the minuscule odds involved in actually scoring from a cross and its broader implications on team strategy.
In 2010, a group of leading European coaches published a tactical analysis of the UEFA Champions League that questioned the effectiveness of crossing as a viable tactic in the modern game.
The report noted that while crosses accounted for about 16% of all goals scored in the tournament, only one of every 92 crosses actually produced a goal, making it an extremely inefficient use of possession. "Crossing and finishing is not quite the fertile source of goals it was a few seasons ago," the report read.
Some academics have gone further. Jan Vercer, a finance professor at the Frankfurt School of Finance and Management, published a paper last year that analyzed crossing data from the English Premier League for the past five seasons.
His findings suggest that not only is crossing a decidedly inefficient way to create scoring chances, but that crosses have such a profoundly negative impact on goal scoring that leading teams should abandon the tactic altogether.

According to Vercer's study, the odds of scoring from a cross are so slim that the average team surrenders possession 73 times for every one cross that yields a goal. The cumulative impact of those lost possessions is so detrimental that he estimates the average team would score an additional 0.57 goals a game if they ditched crosses and simply elected to start their attack all over again.
"It sounds a little bit bizarre, but each cross is costly," Vercer said. "Most of them result in a loss of possession, so the team has to fight to win back the ball, they lose time and consequently they lose scoring opportunities. It's a suboptimal play."
As radical as that suggestion may seem, Vercer's findings are in keeping with other developments in today's game.
Thanks to everything from a sustained crackdown on reckless tackling to the quality of contemporary soccer pitches, modern teams are able to retain possession better than ever before. In 2008, Spain won the European Championship while completing a tournament-high 450 passes a game, on average. By Euro 2012, 15 of the 16 countries averaged more than 450 passes a game.
The possession-oriented style of play that predominates in today's game has changed the way goals are scored, with a greater number coming on attacks down the middle. In their report into the 2010 World Cup, FIFA's technical committee noted that "balls played in behind the defense from the center" accounted for the highest proportion of goals and shots in the tournament.
Those numbers will make for alarming reading for teams like England, whose attacking approach has long-hinged on wing play and frequent crossing from wide areas. Among the 32 teams headed for Brazil, England attempted the fourth-highest number of crosses in qualifying, with an average of 18 a game—although it may be hard for them to change their ways as each of the last six goals scored at a major tournament has come from a cross.
No one outside the academic realm has given serious consideration to cutting out crosses entirely. But there are signs that the leading teams in world soccer have started to wise up to the weaknesses of crossing as a tactic.

Argentina dominated South American qualifying for the 2014 tournament, losing just twice in 16 games in a campaign notable for their distinct reluctance to cross from out wide. La Albiceleste attempted an average of just 8.25 crosses a game, according to Opta Sports, the lowest rate of any World Cup participant.
They're not the only team to dial back on their delivery from wide areas. Germany, Italy and the Netherlands all qualified for Brazil while attempting fewer crosses than they had during qualification four years earlier, though no team appears as clued up about the drawbacks involved in crossing as Spain.
During the Spanish team's run of three consecutive major-tournament triumphs, the average number of crosses attempted by La Roja has steadily dropped, from 12.17 a game at Euro 2008 to 9.17 a game at Euro 2012, according to Pro Zone.
"I do suspect that some teams have started to realize that crossing may not be the best way to score," said Vercer. "If you look at Spain, they try to keep the ball on the ground and they are very reluctant to give up the ball by crossing."
 
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Its almost like assists are not a direct correlation to how good a crosser of the ball you are.

You can keep trying to harp on this meaningless stat but all it does is reinforce how little it tells us about a players ability as Aurier is garbage at crossing the ball and garbage offensively as well.
That's because they're not, one of his assists this season was a shite cross deflected in for an OG against Palace, one was a 10 yard forward pass which is not an assist unless Bergwijn carries the ball forwards 20 yards and smashes it in.

This guy actually posted that Aurier was MoTM on whoscored (lol) after we got beaten 1-0 by Southampton as some sort of measure of his performance.
 
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That's because they're not, one of his assists this season was a shite cross deflected in for an OG against Palace, one was a 10 yard forward pass which is not an assist unless Bergwijn carries the ball forwards 20 yards and smashs it in.

This guy actually posted that Aurier was MoTM on whoscored (lol) after we got beaten 1-0 by Southampton as some sort of measure of his performance.
Take away those two assists and Serge is still tied for #7 among PL defenders.


FWIW, Aurier was the highest rated Spurs player today per WhoScored.
I agree that NDombele was our best player at Norwich.

I thought Aurier was one of our better players today but everyone was pants.
Incidentally his player rating for the Southampton loss went up to an 8.0.

***Ratings are based on a unique, comprehensive statistical algorithm, calculated live during the game. There are over 200 raw statistics included in the calculation of a player's/team’s rating, weighted according to their influence within the game. Every event of importance is taken into account, with a positive or negative effect on ratings weighted in relation to its area on the pitch and its outcome.
The scoring system for the ratings is out of 10, starting from 6.0, with 10 being the highest score. The ratings are updated live every 30 seconds during the game. Our data providers Opta will update and adjust statistics where necessary 5 minutes after the final whistle. The statistics, and therefore ratings, are also subject to change at anytime after the game, due to any further corrections that need to be made to the statistics.
 
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Take away those two assists and Serge is still tied for #7 among PL defenders.




Incidentally his player rating for the Southampton loss went up to an 8.0.

***Ratings are based on a unique, comprehensive statistical algorithm, calculated live during the game. There are over 200 raw statistics included in the calculation of a player's/team’s rating, weighted according to their influence within the game. Every event of importance is taken into account, with a positive or negative effect on ratings weighted in relation to its area on the pitch and its outcome.
The scoring system for the ratings is out of 10, starting from 6.0, with 10 being the highest score. The ratings are updated live every 30 seconds during the game. Our data providers Opta will update and adjust statistics where necessary 5 minutes after the final whistle. The statistics, and therefore ratings, are also subject to change at anytime after the game, due to any further corrections that need to be made to the statistics.
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Do yourself a favour and never post anything from whoscored again. Clown.
 
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It has occurred to me that there are many people on this planet that don't understand maths. Looking at statistics would be boring, confusing or frustrating for said people.
It's now fucking comical.

I mean just reading some of the comments now about his crossing when it's him and Doherty who are the most prolific defenders in the entire league this season, yet still, say "he can't cross". (Yes TAA is miles ahead in actual numbers but his assists have come from dead-ball, corners and free kicks). What do they think of all the others fullbacks in the league then? Is the comparison benchmark made against Lahm or Alves? Is that what they see, nah can't been they all want Aarons.

I see comments saying his crosses were crap against West Ham. What!!? He put TWO on a plate for Kane, first at the near post that Kane skillfully flicked and pulled out a good stop from Fabianski at the near post, the other in the second half was about 1cm from Kane sliding boot. Crosses ARE low percentage opportunities, they are for every team/every player, by definition of "low" it means more will not find the intended player than will. But we are looking at a FB along with Doherty as players that find more than any other in the entire league!

It's literally no different to rival fans saying Kane is shit whilst staring at his numbers making him the most prolific forward in the PL ever!!! Imagine actually having the neck trying to make that one stick.

To compound the comparison only a small fraction of Tripps assists were from crosses, I'd say (an educated guess) that of the 8 no more than 3 were. His most effective ball was an early ball played around the corner to an attacker running in-to-out behind the oppo LB (loved this ball from him).

It's Sissoko all over again I'm afraid.
 
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Perhaps this is more your vibe?
Ok, let's talk about Whoscored and the Southampton match then.

Aurier had one key pass (a pass leading to a chance), it was a 1 yard 'pass' to Kane near the edge of the D. (1:09 in the highlights). He had the 4th most touches on the pitch and that was the only chance he created. If only Harry had scored you could be talking about another assist.
He competed 1 cross out of 5 and never from past the 18 yard line (didn't get behind them).
He competed 7 dribbles - the most on the pitch, I think this stat may have skewed his rating through their excellent algorithm...he also had acres of space as he often does through the way Jose sets us up.
He made 3 tackles, Lucas Moura made more in the match, maybe he should play right back?
He made 6 clearances, including the overhead one that went straight to a Southampton player for their first chance via Redmond in the highlights.
He made one foul and was booked for it.

You can even see him not sprinting back when Ings is up against Toby and gets completely done by some great skill for their goal

We lose 1-0, 8/10 Tottenham's Man of the Match.
Use your eyes as well as the fucking numbers tbh.
 
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Ok, let's talk about Whoscored and the Southampton match then.

Aurier had one key pass (a pass leading to a chance), it was a 1 yard 'pass' to Kane near the edge of the D. (1:09 in the highlights). He had the 4th most touches on the pitch and that was the only chance he created. If only Harry had scored you could be talking about another assist.
He competed 1 cross out of 5 and never from past the 18 yard line (didn't get behind them).
He competed 7 dribbles - the most on the pitch, I think this stat may have skewed his rating through their excellent algorithm...he also had acres of space as he often does through the way Jose sets us up.
He made 3 tackles, Lucas Moura made more in the match, maybe he should play right back?
He made 6 clearances, including the overhead one that went straight to a Southampton player for their first chance via Redmond in the highlights.
He made one foul and was booked for it.

You can even see him not sprinting back when Ings is up against Toby and gets completely done by some great skill for their goal

We lose 1-0, 8/10 Tottenham's Man of the Match.
Use your eyes as well as the fucking numbers tbh.
I agree that NDombele was our best player at Norwich.

I thought Aurier was one of our better players today but everyone was pants.
 
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I don't have a problem with Aurier going forward because while he can be reckless at times with his shooting/crossing he can also put in great deliveries and overall he is a fairly decent threat.

The issue has always been defensively. He is okay on one on one duels when he is set in position but too often this is not the case. He also always has at least one brain fart in every game in possession which leads to a dangerous moment for the opposition.

This usually occurs late on when we are holding on to a lead from his trying to dribble out of defence or playing a risky ball. I think it is an issue of concentration as the game wears on and if he could be the same attacking threat for 70 mins and then close up shop and be solid for the last 20 he would be much improved. Hopefully Mourinho can improve that aspect of his game but ultimately he needs competition/cover anyway so a RB signing is the second priority for me after a CDM this summer.
 
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I see.

So, how does one determine what a good cross is?
What is a direct correlation for determining how good of a crosser a player is?

It's conceivable that I don't understand what a good cross is... perhaps you could provide an example or two of a "good crosser of the ball"... shouldn't be difficult as you seem to think that there are at least 15 better RBs in the PL .

What are the metrics you use to determine who is and who isn't "garbage offensively"?
A good cross into the opposition box generally finds one of our players and clears the defences first man

Aurier's usually doesn’t
 
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Airfixx

Eroding the true defnition of glory since 1976...
It's now fucking comical.

I mean just reading some of the comments now about his crossing when it's him and Doherty who are the most prolific defenders in the entire league this season, yet still, say "he can't cross". (Yes TAA is miles ahead in actual numbers but his assists have come from dead-ball, corners and free kicks). What do they think of all the others fullbacks in the league then? Is the comparison benchmark made against Lahm or Alves? Is that what they see, nah can't been they all want Aarons.

I see comments saying his crosses were crap against West Ham. What!!? He put TWO on a plate for Kane, first at the near post that Kane skillfully flicked and pulled out a good stop from Fabianski at the near post, the other in the second half was about 1cm from Kane sliding boot. Crosses ARE low percentage opportunities, they are for every team/every player, by definition of "low" it means more will not find the intended player than will. But we are looking at a FB along with Doherty as players that find more than any other in the entire league!

It's literally no different to rival fans saying Kane is shit whilst staring at his numbers making him the most prolific forward in the PL ever!!! Imagine actually having the neck trying to make that one stick.

To compound the comparison only a small fraction of Tripps assists were from crosses, I'd say (an educated guess) that of the 8 no more than 3 were. His most effective ball was an early ball played around the corner to an attacker running in-to-out behind the oppo LB (loved this ball from him).

It's Sissoko all over again I'm afraid.
Trippier used to cross:

- Whether there was a cross on or not.
- As a means of getting rid of the ball cos he refused to try and beat a man.
- The majority of the time early from deep where it would get calmly gobbled up by the two CBs sat by default in the D on the edge of the box.
 
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