Short Goal Kicks

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Rodger

Supporter
Looking down on Woolich again
Can someone explain to me the benefit of taking a short goal kick to a team mate in your own box? All I ever see is teams putting themselves under pressure, near to their goal. If I were a manger I would tell my goalie to go long, every time.

To a great extent, the same applies to short or backwards free kicks in your own half, in my opinion. Can anyone tell me why they're a good idea, when the alternative of lumping a ball upfield often results in the opposition being under pressure in their defensive third of the pitch.
 
Can someone explain to me the benefit of taking a short goal kick to a team mate in your own box? All I ever see is teams putting themselves under pressure, near to their goal. If I were a manger I would tell my goalie to go long, every time.

To a great extent, the same applies to short or backwards free kicks in your own half, in my opinion. Can anyone tell me why they're a good idea, when the alternative of lumping a ball upfield often results in the opposition being under pressure in their defensive third of the pitch.
The aim is to play through the press and open up space in the final third. Our problem is we have been crap at that under Mourinio so it resorted to hoof ball quickly.

It draws players on to you and invites pressure so you need to be technically sound and good at passing to make it work.
 

Rodger

Supporter
Looking down on Woolich again
The aim is to play through the press and open up space in the final third. Our problem is we have been crap at that under Mourinio so it resorted to hoof ball quickly.

It draws players on to you and invites pressure so you need to be technically sound and good at passing to make it work.
Thanks. I noticed Pickford had a go at it early on in Sunday's game, but pretty soon decided just to hoof it upfield - much less worrying for me!
 

Mrs Perryman

Supporter
I'm a Cockney Malteser ๐Ÿ‘‘
Can someone explain to me the benefit of taking a short goal kick to a team mate in your own box? All I ever see is teams putting themselves under pressure, near to their goal. If I were a manger I would tell my goalie to go long, every time.

To a great extent, the same applies to short or backwards free kicks in your own half, in my opinion. Can anyone tell me why they're a good idea, when the alternative of lumping a ball upfield often results in the opposition being under pressure in their defensive third of the pitch.
I'm with you - get it as far as you can away from our goal (especially with our current players!)
 
It makes the pitch bigger for the attacking side.

Unfortunately, you need a good attacking side (from the CBs all the way to the Striker) for it to work and most teams trying it don't have that.
 

Rodger

Supporter
Looking down on Woolich again
It makes the pitch bigger for the attacking side.

Unfortunately, you need a good attacking side (from the CBs all the way to the Striker) for it to work and most teams trying it don't have that.
I get that as a theory, but in reality, what's the point in making the pitch bigger when the ball is in your penalty box and you're being pressed by half a dozen opposition players when, at the worst, you could be picking up a second ball from a long kick into the opponents' half of the pitch?
 
I get that as a theory, but in reality, what's the point in making the pitch bigger when the ball is in your penalty box and you're being pressed by half a dozen opposition players when, at the worst, you could be picking up a second ball from a long kick into the opponents' half of the pitch?
I completely agree, never liked it.
 
I get that as a theory, but in reality, what's the point in making the pitch bigger when the ball is in your penalty box and you're being pressed by half a dozen opposition players when, at the worst, you could be picking up a second ball from a long kick into the opponents' half of the pitch?

Because you are just as likely to give the ball to your opponent or having to break down a block of 11 in their own half.

As said earlier, itโ€™s to spread players and bring your opponent higher up the pitch to give space to attack in to.

To do it effectively though you need players that can hold the ball and play through your opponents press.
 

Rodger

Supporter
Looking down on Woolich again
Because you are just as likely to give the ball to your opponent or having to break down a block of 11 in their own half.

As said earlier, itโ€™s to spread players and bring your opponent higher up the pitch to give space to attack in to.

To do it effectively though you need players that can hold the ball and play through your opponents press.
Thanks.

Hardly ever works though, does it? But often leads to further pressure on the goal.
 

Rodger

Supporter
Looking down on Woolich again
It doesn't specifically answer your question about goal kicks but the answer for the action to play short from deep and from the keeper is exactly the same.....


Thanks Guido ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ Guido ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ . I understand the theory, which is the same whether it's a goal kick or not. I've yet to see evidence that it's better than playing a long ball, unless you're a superior team already.

If someone can show me stats that prove it, for Spurs for example, I'll happily accept it.
 
Thanks Guido ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ Guido ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ . I understand the theory, which is the same whether it's a goal kick or not. I've yet to see evidence that it's better than playing a long ball, unless you're a superior team already.

If someone can show me stats that prove it, for Spurs for example, I'll happily accept it.
Will have to hunt around, not hopeful I could find anything though.

But you have to think back to what happens over a period of an entire 90mins, during this time a team who dose it will consistently attempt doing it, it's their default, so allow me to pull a figure out of the air, let's say they play out 40 times (20 times each half), how many times does the oppo score from pressing that team-high and winning the ball back to actually scoring a goal as a consequence? It's not that common that this scenario happens - YES it happens of course but it's a lot less than it "feels".

I can think of an example: CL Inter vs Spurs 2-1 Inter pressed us high throughout the first half as we attempted to pass out. Their press was reasonably successful, in so far as our passing wasn't very good, the lads were pressured into some poor passing.

BUT did Inter gain an advantage from it? The answer is an emphatic NO! They barely had a decent shot, limited to speculative ones from long range and absolutely NOTHING as a direct result of winning the ball whilst we attempted to play through their press.

However, the limited chances we created every single one of our opportunities, bar one - a FK from Eriksen came as a direct result of us playing through their press. Whilst we didn't do this as often as we had done under Peak Poch, it still demonstrates the risk and reward for doing it. (Kane missed a couple of absolute sitters as well).

The feeling however in post-match discussions was that Inter were brilliant first half, the perception was they were better because they were pressing high and we couldn't get our passing together to play through them (even though all the chances created were by us and as a result of playing through them), the feeling makes fans nervous and uncomfortable and this feeling dominates and over-rides the statistic that they created fuck all from pressing us high whilst we played out and created our chances doing exactly that.

TDLR: When it's obvious that when a team attempting to do it isn't as good at it as Man City at doing it, the "feeling" overrides what is still actually happening in many cases. The fans (and the commentators) are all more nervous than the players in most cases.
 

Rodger

Supporter
Looking down on Woolich again
Will have to hunt around, not hopeful I could find anything though.

But you have to think back to what happens over a period of an entire 90mins, during this time a team who dose it will consistently attempt doing it, it's their default, so allow me to pull a figure out of the air, let's say they play out 40 times (20 times each half), how many times does the oppo score from pressing that team-high and winning the ball back to actually scoring a goal as a consequence? It's not that common that this scenario happens - YES it happens of course but it's a lot less than it "feels".

I can think of an example: CL Inter vs Spurs 2-1 Inter pressed us high throughout the first half as we attempted to pass out. Their press was reasonably successful, in so far as our passing wasn't very good, the lads were pressured into some poor passing.

BUT did Inter gain an advantage from it? The answer is an emphatic NO! They barely had a decent shot, limited to speculative ones from long range and absolutely NOTHING as a direct result of winning the ball whilst we attempted to play through their press.

However, the limited chances we created every single one of our opportunities, bar one - a FK from Eriksen came as a direct result of us playing through their press. Whilst we didn't do this as often as we had done under Peak Poch, it still demonstrates the risk and reward for doing it. (Kane missed a couple of absolute sitters as well).

The feeling however in post-match discussions was that Inter were brilliant first half, the perception was they were better because they were pressing high and we couldn't get our passing together to play through them (even though all the chances created were by us and as a result of playing through them), the feeling makes fans nervous and uncomfortable and this feeling dominates and over-rides the statistic that they created fuck all from pressing us high whilst we played out and created our chances doing exactly that.

TDLR: When it's obvious that when a team attempting to do it isn't as good at it as Man City at doing it, the "feeling" overrides what is still actually happening in many cases. The fans (and the commentators) are all more nervous than the players in most cases.
Thanks. To back up your theory, I know I felt a lot less nervous the other day when Pickford resorted to punting goal kicks upfield. Hope he does it again tonight!
 
Thanks. To back up your theory, I know I felt a lot less nervous the other day when Pickford resorted to punting goal kicks upfield. Hope he does it again tonight!
The thing I would say in responce to this is, follow that booted ball out by Pickford, see who it falls to, odds are it isn't an England player, and if the oppo have anything about them the chances are that we are out of position as defenders pushed up to follow the ball booted out, a good team will exploit this. Or at the very least they've regained possession and build on yet another spell of possession and control of the game.
 

Rodger

Supporter
Looking down on Woolich again
The thing I would say in responce to this is, follow that booted ball out by Pickford, see who it falls to, odds are it isn't an England player, and if the oppo have anything about them the chances are that we are out of position as defenders pushed up to follow the ball booted out, a good team will exploit this. Or at the very least they've regained possession and build on yet another spell of possession and control of the game.
I think I may do a chart!
 
I think whats annoying is when the keeper plays short to defender who then returns to keeper who launches it long. I can understand the pass out mightnt be on butwhen this happens 5 or 6 times in a row can be frustrating
 
I think whats annoying is when the keeper plays short to defender who then returns to keeper who launches it long. I can understand the pass out mightnt be on butwhen this happens 5 or 6 times in a row can be frustrating
But sometimes that may also be the plan. That they've drawn enough players onto them, which may have created the space for a forward (assuming that's where space has appeared) and the 'keeper launches it to that space.

or

They've gone long in consecutive phases which might create a feeling that they'll go long on the next one so the oppo press isn't as aggressive or only done by 1 player instead of three, so they've manufactured some surprise with the oppo and they can therefore go short and because they've caught them out they are able to play out through a less aggressive press.

???
 
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