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Whilst mildly amusing, it’s not getting to an answer is it? No club has a squad of top class players that are all in form. Ever.At the moment I'd settle for one of these :
This that appear to be our weakest links / scapegoats at present are Davies, Dele and Winks. All experienced internationals, two HG and all capable of great performances. Just not getting that out of them just now. To have these three as our weakest links right now is remarkable. Even a year ago, they’d have been playing in every match.
This is a squad game and these guys are more than good enough for our squad.
Utility players?
Jan was a starter for Belgium when they were consistently a top 5 team in the world and one of the top CB's in the PL. Not really a utility player.
Fernandinho was arguably the best DM in the world for the past 5-8 years.
Fernandiho was a key starter for a Liverpool team that won the PL and CL.
These aren't utility guys filling in because they have no position they are examples of how players can have skillsets that fit in multiple positions and that teams routinely have guys who can play in more than one position start in a position that isn't their primary role.
It isn't any superior knowledge on my part it is fairly common knowledge that is often talked about that Davies can play CB. It was a shock to nobody that he started there because it makes sense. Are you not surprised that you are the only person talking about Ben supposedly playing out of position? Don't you think it would be a bigger deal if that were the case?
So do you still reckon he is good enough then?
I agree but when you talk about a replacement for Dele my frivolous pic of a bollard was an attempt to illustrate that in his current form anything could take his place. The point has also been raised in here whether or not the lad actually has it in him to up his game to the next level this squad and its ambitions demand ? I tend to think not based on recent performances.
Dele is not 'out of form', he's been under performing for quite some time, even going back to Poch's tenure. It's a problem that needs addressing and until the window re-opens the solution would appear to be not to consider him for selection.
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I think you can debate the level of ability he has until the cows come home. But I think it's clear to see from the hard work and effort other players such as kane and son are putting in that he clearly isn't giving 100% and Jose won't tolerate that.
You've quoted three players. What about the 1000s of others that play in the position they were brought up to play in? Beckenbauer made the transition from world class midfielder to world class centre back but Nobby Stiles (commiserations to his family) didn't. Some make the transition, most don't.
"fairly common knowledge" ... not to me. I've only known Davies as a LB/LWB. He played at CB for us once last season and had a good game. He started not "because it made sense" but because we had injury problems. As I said, that does not make him a good CB.
Yes I would be very surprised if I was the only one talking about Davies playing out of position - because he was.
I don't have the inclinitation to explain what a utility player is. However Ben Davies isn't one!
"We all" don't actually know this. Just because you are reaching this new reality doesn't mean some of us haven't been here for some time. If there was a 'player' in there a player would be able to adapt. There is no club above us in profile or performance that will want this player. There was one this summer but for a derisive loan offer of 1.5M. There is a reason for that and it's not because his game or potential "remain(s) at a high level". In fact it is the very opposite. And beyond that so few teams play with a 10 and fewer still with an inefficient/incompetent 10 that loses possession 11x in 1 half.
Not at present for the first 11 but that is partly because we have brought in players that are better and the system is changed and does not suit him. He did create a chance for Vinny which Son or Kane may have converted. If he gets another chance he must try and play adventurous rather than safe unless he plays deep. None of them were good in either half.
I would keep Winks ocer Dele at the moment.
He is like a cancer at this point. I would put him with the u 23s. Get some game time and lend him out to PGS in Jan.
Sarr at Watford ?
I would spend the money on a CH and hope that Bale starts playing.
We are clearly hoping that Phillips fancies a move
I chose those 3 because they are 3 prominent players that have done a similar thing to what Davies has done, not because they are the only 3 guys. Toby has played FB in his career, Dier has played FB and DM in his career, Foyth played both FB and CB, Tanganga has played FB and CB.
I am not sure why you keep promoting your ignorance of Ben Davies history as some sort of strength in your argument. His ability to play both CB and LB is a well known part of his game that has been talked about repeatedly by fans, the media, himself and his managers.
And again he was not playing out of position, he can play both CB and LB. Both are positions he is experienced in, both are positions that he is competent in. He did not play out of position.
I don't really give a shit what your view of a utility player is because it has no relevance to this discussion at all.
The fact is, and all that matters. is Ben Davies did not play out of position. Players are more than capable of having more than one position that they are competent to play.
Why do they have to be as experienced? I don't think we are lacking experience in the squad.
As for a HG player that is a better squad player- Skipp is the obvious answer but don't want to bring him back. I think White offers as much as Dele does at this point, but really neither should be starting for our B team anyways so the difference between them isn't much.
Phillips would be a dream add to the team, but he didn't want to leave Leeds when they were in the Championship so not likely he moves now.
A guy like Eze that moved in the summer would be a better option for us.
David Brooks was a guy rumoured in the summer but he is Welsh so not sure if we have the same issues we do with Davies although he did spend time in United as a youth so that may change things.
Jarred Bowen would have been a nice addition but is not likely to leave West Ham now,
I would take Todd Cantwell off Norwich ahead of Dele.
Not that he would have likely come here but Bellingham would have been a great addition.
Would probably have to look into it deeper to get a real list but these are some guys that either recently moved or would likely be available so there are clearly options out there to fill his spot if we need a new HG MF to replace him.
See? This is one of those time Benzema is needed to straighten things out.
Hold on, I got this one. Do I get a lifeline or phone a friend? If so I would like
Guido 🇺🇦
or
Blanchflower
to give us a hand. I'm gonna go with "nutmegs in Macedonia". No no, I'm gonna go with "losses of possession", final answer.
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Sorry, they will have a preferred position which I'm sure in Davies' case is LB/LWB. Of course you can play anyone, anywhere but you won't win anything.
You say that Davies is well known as a CB - not to me. He was bought by us as a LB/LWB which he has played for us 99% of the time. He's not a CB.
By the way Doherty played for ROI as a CB in his last international (and by all accounts was very good). Maybe he is our new CB?
Foyth and Tanganga are CBs that were also played LB/LWBs. Foyth is on loan and in all probability will never play for us again because we insisted on playing him as a RB/RWB when he's a CB (I don't care where Argentina play him). Tanganga is going through the same thing. He should be played as a CB not as a full back.
You seem to think that players and positions are interchangeable - they really aren't in the real world - maybe FIFA!
The thing is this season a team is going to have to rotate, there was barely a pre-season and with the lockdown and re-start that preceded that everything is out of kilter. Many, if not all managers have grave concerns of players health and possible injury that can occur this season. Already I believe there have been more hamstring injuries recorded than ever before at this stage of the season.
As for Kane's ankles, it's his ligaments, not muscle that is damaged, so rest/rotation doesn't address a reoccurrence of an injury to his ankles. The damage he has sustained is permanent, he plays every game with a weaker ankles than prior to them being injured, they are weaker because the ligament stretches and remains stretched. Those that ruptured are no longer there but will have significant scaring (unless nowadays there's a magic way of addressing this that I'm unaware of), this scaring can cause some irritation and inhibit flexibility but usually, those ligaments that are stretched might mean he can roll his anckle with ease now unless they are strapped up. Resting/rotating him will benefit the health of his muscle fatigue and hopefully avoid an injury to a hammy/calf/groin etc..
For me the bottom line is the team that was put out has enough experience and quality to beat Antwerp but they do need some idea of what they are supposed to do. It looked to me like they had none, it certainly wasn't a form issue as many of those players were in good form going into the game.
You seem to think I back Dele for his numbers. If that were the case then you haven't read a single thing about why I rate him.Hold on, I got this one. Do I get a lifeline or phone a friend? If so I would like
I'm gonna go with "nutmegs in Macedonia". No no, I'm gonna go with "losses of possession", final answer.
I don’t get why this is so hard.
We’ve already established that you are clueless when it comes to Davies history you don’t need to keep repeating it as some sort of badge of honour. There is a reason nobody else is talking about it because Davies playing as a CB makes sense, it is t him playing out of position.
You can keep whining about FIFA but it still makes no sense.
Davies is a CB/LB so playing him at CB makes sense. It is t randomly throwing someone into a position, it is playing someone in a position they are very comfortable to play in. It makes perfect sense.
Well after some checking, this is Davies' playing career with Spurs: PL starts.
He's obviously a CB!
This isn't FIFA. Play players in their natural position that they've learnt over the years.
| PL Starts | |||
| CB | LB | LWB | |
| 20/21 | 0 | 5 | 0 |
| 19/20 | 0 | 17 | 1 |
| 18/19 | 2 | 25 | 0 |
| 17/18 | 0 | 24 | 5 |
| 16/17 | 1 | 16 | 6 |
| 15/16 | 0 | 17 | 0 |
Give it up mate, he's spouting shite. Davies is a LB capable of the odd game at CB or more preferably on the left of a back three. He's never been known as a CB.