Should we sacrifice the PL for Europa League?

[Igula]

The thing is, we both agree that in some games this season we will need to see Kane and Son rested for Vinicius and Alli.
The difference between us is that you want stars rested in the 2nd leg of a K/O Europa League tie, while I want it in some of the easier games in the league.

No I want to wait and decide at the time of the games rather than make a general statement of making PL games less important now. It may be that at the time of the games I am willing to have them sit in the Palace game (for example) I am just not willing to say now that we should prioritize EL this early ahead of PL games.

 

[Trotter]

Yeh that's because they don't want to answer about when to drop the likes of kane & son as it doesn't look good for their argument. They are basically saying don't rest players but don't over play them. Which is a contradiction. Unless you believe the likes of kane can play 3 games in a week without it negatively affecting his performance. Then you have a point. But I disagree with that point. Kane & son etc need a rest & to be fresher for the big games. Son has looked knackered for a while now.
Also, the more you play the more chance of picking up a injury.

Bollocks

People have answered.

You rotate players as and when appropriate, just like you should in any normal circumstance.

You certainly don't drop both Kane and Son and others for 5 pre-selected matches at the same time like the OP said, and basically throw any chance of qualifying for Europe through a league position which we still have a good 30% chance of gaining, just to potentially give us a slightly marginal better chance of winning a competition we have maybe 10% chance in


Who the fuck do we think we are ?

 

[Nikesh]

What a stupid poll this is. Every time this European B league is taken seriously the premiership league is already shot to bits; forget about ever winning the PL in a season that we’re in the europa, and the way things are going qualifying for this second best competition guarantees only one thing- that we’ll be back in the europa next season too.

Do I spy a vicious circle?

Europa or no Europa, we arent winning the league. And top 4 has not been affected by it. We have just been crap. So far no one good faced in the EL

We should focus on both!

 

[Donki]

It worked for him at United, but fuck sake if we finish 10th, blow the LC Final and then the EL final it will be as depressing as fuck and would set us back a good bit.

 

[Pzabbythethird]

Can’t believe 41% would be happy to not win anything when an EL trophy gives us CL football anyway

You're assuming we can win if we just "focus" on it. That's a tall tall order, especially with our current form.

 

[To Dare Is To Do.]

No I want to wait and decide at the time of the games rather than make a general statement of making PL games less important now.

You rotate players as and when appropriate, just like you should in any normal circumstance.

Wait and decide based on what?
What is appropriate and normal circumstances?

Vague rhetoric. We can't make Son/ Kane go through 5 games in 14 days without serious fatigue and injury risk.
So at some point they will have to be rested. I've suggested some suitable games, but if you disagree, let me know when you think is better.

The problem with the 'wait and see' approach is that the best games to rest players are right at the start of the busy period (check schedule, OP). So if we just take each game at a time and put out our strongest team until they're fatigued, we'll be fucked for 2nd leg of EL.

You certainly don't drop both Kane and Son and others for 5 pre-selected matches at the same time like the OP said

I said already I'm happy with starting one of Kane and Son for all the 5 pre-selected matches, but then substituting them for each other at half time.

 

[To Dare Is To Do.]

I remember Klopp doing it when Liverpool were runners up in the CL 2018, and not in contention for PL title. They would alternate between resting Mane and Sarah for Origi in the game before a K/O CL tie in latter stages.

 

[DTM]

Europa or no Europa, we arent winning the league. And top 4 has not been affected by it. We have just been crap. So far no one good faced in the EL

We should focus on both!

Look at the history in this competition not just this season but every time we’ve been in it. Also what did Liverpool go and achieve the season they successfully said bollocks to the Europa competition. The competition is a hindrance!

 

[Igula]

Wait and decide based on what?
What is appropriate and normal circumstances?

Vague rhetoric. We can't make Son/ Kane go through 5 games in 14 days without serious fatigue and injury risk.
So at some point they will have to be rested. I've suggested some suitable games, but if you disagree, let me know when you think is better.

The problem with the 'wait and see' approach is that the best games to rest players are right at the start of the busy period (check schedule, OP). So if we just take each game at a time and put out our strongest team until they're fatigued, we'll be fucked for 2nd leg of EL.



I said already I'm happy with starting one of Kane and Son for all the 5 pre-selected matches, but then substituting them for each other at half time.

Its not vague rhetoric.

As I have said wait and see who we get in EL, wait and see the results of the first legs, wait and see what happens in our PL games from now until the later games, wait and see our form and health around those times.

An example is if Bale and Alli show that they can continue their recent form and transfer it to the PL that changes a lot. It makes our team more flexible and perhaps using Alli instead of Ndombele/GLC in the EL makes sense. Likewise if Kane or Son has to miss the next 2 weeks, perhaps playing him 5 games is not as big a deal or it would be a bigger deal if they are dealing with a nagging issue.

We could lose all our game before Palace and be looking at little to no chance of even getting 6th, we could win all our games with all other teams dropping points having us right up close to top 4.

I think it is highly doubtful but if we are say a point out of 4th and then lose to Newcastle 1-0 with Kane, Son and Ndombele on the bench that sure will be frustrating, especially when we then go out 3-0 on aggregate to AC Milan with a full strength squad in the SF.

There is zero benefit to saying "we are prioritizing EL over PL."

 

[Igula]

Look at the history in this competition not just this season but every time we’ve been in it. Also what did Liverpool go and achieve the season they successfully said bollocks to the Europa competition. The competition is a hindrance!

Leicester and United are 2 and 3 in the league are arguably having better seasons that anyone would have expected with EL this season.

Liverpool destroyed the league with European football last year, City are running away with the league and somehow managing to get by in Europe as well.

I would love to hear your nonsense evidence that we have been hurt this year by Europa. There is no evidence at all that it has had an effect on us at all this season. In fact during the hectic time that everyone was crying about we were on our best run of the season.

 

[DTM]

Its not vague rhetoric.

As I have said wait and see who we get in EL, wait and see the results of the first legs, wait and see what happens in our PL games from now until the later games, wait and see our form and health around those times.

An example is if Bale and Alli show that they can continue their recent form and transfer it to the PL that changes a lot. It makes our team more flexible and perhaps using Alli instead of Ndombele/GLC in the EL makes sense. Likewise if Kane or Son has to miss the next 2 weeks, perhaps playing him 5 games is not as big a deal or it would be a bigger deal if they are dealing with a nagging issue.

We could lose all our game before Palace and be looking at little to no chance of even getting 6th, we could win all our games with all other teams dropping points having us right up close to top 4.

I think it is highly doubtful but if we are say a point out of 4th and then lose to Newcastle 1-0 with Kane, Son and Ndombele on the bench that sure will be frustrating, especially when we then go out 3-0 on aggregate to AC Milan with a full strength squad in the SF.

There is zero benefit to saying "we are prioritizing EL over PL."

That’s one hell of a lot of wait and see’s and if’s and but’s. If the euro B league was the preferred route to championship league by winning it we may as well have focused solely on that and perhaps been content with finishing 12th in the premier league -NOT!

Anyone that voted focus on Europe in the B league over the premier league top four spot is a cunt!

 

[Igula]

That’s one hell of a lot of wait and see’s and if’s and but’s. If the euro B league was the preferred route to championship league by winning it we may as well have focused solely on that and perhaps been content with finishing 12th in the premier league -NOT!

Anyone that voted focus on Europe in the B league over the premier league top four spot is a cunt!

Of course it is ifs and buts we are talking about the future, not sure about you but I am unable to predict the future so if's and but's are all we have. That is why I am saying we should wait until those if's are not if's any more before making any decision.

But we don't have to finish 12th to focus on the Europa. The idea that you can only do well in one or the other is nonsense. We can have success in the Europa and still be competitive in the PL.

 

[scott]

Leicester and United are 2 and 3 in the league are arguably having better seasons that anyone would have expected with EL this season.

Liverpool destroyed the league with European football last year, City are running away with the league and somehow managing to get by in Europe as well.

I would love to hear your nonsense evidence that we have been hurt this year by Europa. There is no evidence at all that it has had an effect on us at all this season. In fact during the hectic time that everyone was crying about we were on our best run of the season.

Can't blame Europa this season. We have simply been poor.

 

[Trotter]

I remember Klopp doing it when Liverpool were runners up in the CL 2018, and not in contention for PL title. They would alternate between resting Mane and Sarah for Origi in the game before a K/O CL tie in latter stages.

Klopp rotates his front 3 all the time.
None of them usually play more than 30 league games a season.
Was nothing specific he did then to his usual, and they had already secured CL qualification.

What you are basically proposing to do is give up any chance of European qualification we have (and we are still better than 30% to be Top 6) and gamble it all on a competition we have much less chance of securing Europe in.

Oh and by the way, one of the proposed games you say Son should be rested for is first game back after International break (in which South Korea are not playing, so he won't have played for 2 weeks anyway)

 

[To Dare Is To Do.]

Its not vague rhetoric.

As I have said wait and see who we get in EL, wait and see the results of the first legs, wait and see what happens in our PL games from now until the later games, wait and see our form and health around those times.

An example is if Bale and Alli show that they can continue their recent form and transfer it to the PL that changes a lot. It makes our team more flexible and perhaps using Alli instead of Ndombele/GLC in the EL makes sense. Likewise if Kane or Son has to miss the next 2 weeks, perhaps playing him 5 games is not as big a deal or it would be a bigger deal if they are dealing with a nagging issue.

We could lose all our game before Palace and be looking at little to no chance of even getting 6th, we could win all our games with all other teams dropping points having us right up close to top 4.

I think it is highly doubtful but if we are say a point out of 4th and then lose to Newcastle 1-0 with Kane, Son and Ndombele on the bench that sure will be frustrating, especially when we then go out 3-0 on aggregate to AC Milan with a full strength squad in the SF.

There is zero benefit to saying "we are prioritizing EL over PL."

These are all fair points, re injuries, form, draw etc.. Some of your scenarios are likely, some unlikely; but I agree that these are all factors to take into account during team selection.

Another factor to take into account is which tournament we prioritise. It's undeniable.
Perhaps this thread is premature, but I think it's a reasonable assumption that our PL prospects won't change massively in the next few weeks. We're in contention for EL spot, but not for top 4. So unlikely I'll change my mind about prioritising EL.

 

[To Dare Is To Do.]

Oh and by the way, one of the proposed games you say Son should be rested for is first game back after International break (in which South Korea are not playing, so he won't have played for 2 weeks anyway)

I didn't know South Korea wouldn't be playing in that international break, cheers for info.

In that case, for the Newcastle game, as long as we're still in the Europa we should start Son and bench Kane. Bring Kane on for Son around the hour mark.

 

[Trotter]

Perhaps this thread is premature

I think we can have consensus on that.

Personally I think it is a good month premature, but could become a bit more valid after International break, by which time we will have played 5 more league games, and have much better picture where we stand and chances of getting a European place through League position, and will know our route to Europa League Final (as QF to Final all drawn at same time), if we are even still in that competition at that time.

 

[To Dare Is To Do.]

I think we can have consensus on that

You didn't quote rest of that sentence though.
I want key players rested against Palace. That's 3 games away. I think it's exceptionally unlikely that our PL prospects are gonna change within the next 2 games.

When people on summer transfer thread say 'we need a new CB', presumably you don't call them premature because technically it's not impossible that Davinson Sanchez and Dier could rejuvenate themselves and become world class by June.
Reasonable assumptions, rather than 100% certainty, are fine in the context of football forum discussions.

 

[Igula]

You didn't quote rest of that sentence though.
I want key players rested against Palace. That's 3 games away. I think it's exceptionally unlikely that our PL prospects are gonna change within the next 2 games.

When people on summer transfer thread say 'we need a new CB', presumably you don't call them premature because technically it's not impossible that Davinson Sanchez and Dier could rejuvenate themselves and become world class by June.
Reasonable assumptions, rather than 100% certainty, are fine in the context of football forum discussions.

Again we don't know who the draw is yet, that is a major factor.

If we get the winner of Dynamo Zagreb-Krasnodar do you really think we need to sit guys against Palace? Why not wait to see who we draw and what happens in the games between then.

You still have not given a single reason why that decision should be made now and not a fews days before Palace.

 

[Eli]

Does that really mean anything though?

I can name 3 clubs straight off the bat that are clearly better than us

We have to play really hard teams because according to some getting to the carabao cup final doesn’t really count cos we played poop teams got a by in one round and fluked the chavs......