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First off Y7, thanks for a thoughtful post, raising many good points., Quite a few I will now disagree with
I don't carried away with UEFA rankings, I ask you in your turn to please not get carried away with disregarding them
They're not a very rough indicator of a team's achievements, they're much better than that, indeed they're a fairly good indicator of a team's achievements in the recent past.
I agree that some stats may be better for current status than the UEFA ones, but some may not be. Bookie's odds for example when it comes to Europe are often a poor indicator, because many British punters know very little about continental teams and the odds tend to be unrealistically poor on English teams
I bet Toon were favourites to beat Metalist last night for example.
the question about how we'd do in the French lge is completely hypothetical and for me invalid - if we were in the French lge we wouldn't have the Prem money so there's no guarantee at all we'd be going as well or better than Lyon
I don't think we have CL in the bag ATM, do you?
We're not in a worse position than last year if you compare results to the same games last year, as so often with stats it depends which ones you use, I could you show you a few stats including the one I've quoted to show we're doing better than last season
I don't think you're being more realistic than me, in fact I think I'm being more realistic than you, if we're going to play that game
How long have you followed Spurs, I've been a supporter for well over 50 years, (I'm a fair bit over 60 so have known about Spurs for even longer) so I'm well entitled to the 'when you've been following Spurs as long as I have line' ..I'm not sure what you mean about Euroland, but if you mean do I think we have a good chance of winning it, I say yes(the bookies odds will probably be unreallistically short BTW)do i think we will win it,i say, no, because they are some good/very good teams in the competition including Lyon and Inter, so probably we'll stumble somewhere.If we do make CL next season we may see a drastic change in transfer policy, then again ....we didn't last time IIRC.On ENIC's track record we're more likely to splurge if in relegation trouble, because they can't afford to lose the cash cow that is the Prem.
Since ENIC took control we haven't had any relegation trouble, if you are talking about the Ramos fiasco, then you can hardly call being at the bottom of the table in October a relegation fight, and even then the net transfer spend was only about 19/20 million. ENIC have never had a problem with spending money, rather, having problems with patience towards managers.
What I was referring to regarding transfer policy, is that I think that this year more than any they will have hopefully of learnt their lesson regarding strengthening in the right areas, so that once/if CL qualification is achieved, we will be in a better position to compete.
In answer to your question about length of time supporting, my first season taking an interest was 1972/73, not quite in your league when it comes to longevity, but long enough to know the peaks and troughs (mostly troughs) of being a Spurs fan. COYS.
Thanks for the replies, again we're not going to agree
Simply true, I'm not cherry picking results, I'll say the same to to you, you can't cherry pick results.
I see your logic, but it doesn't work like that either, we all know our form fell away last season, there'sno reason to think it will this year.
Your comparison was Lyon was invalid and still is IMHO regarding how we'd do in France.
With regard to UEFA rankings there are plenty of French team who don't play CL football regularly like Lyon, they're one of the best teams in the league so they do. also they don't have Prem TV money so can't afford the type of squad we have at our disposal.
Your point about odds is wrong - punters money sways odds - so my point was relevant not irrelevant.
quite a few of last night's results show UEFA rankings are a good indicator, as I've already shown.
I am talking about that, so you're wrong on that one. We spent a lot of money in that January window to ensure we didn''t go down.
As I thought I've been supporting Spurs longer than you, and have an even better idea of our peaks and troughs. You're wrong about it mainly being troughs, we've done remarkably well over the years, being in the top ten of the country's best teams over the period I've been supporting them and also in your period too
so that's far better than average, let alone talking about troughs.
During the premiership era for example, we've been about the 6th best team in the country overall. In that time there's been 100+ profesional clubs in the country and something like 40 have played in the Prem, so we're very much in the top 50%, though not in the elite top 4/5
That's your opinion, fair enough. The board clearly were worried about the prospect, hence they spent a lot of money, and of course Harry talked about relegation a lot that season.
Also for sure (as H might say) the odds at the time we reached our 8 games 2 points nadir would have have indicated it was from certain that we'd stay up, indeed they would have indicated it was quite likely we would have been relegated. I was certainly fearful of relegation after we reached 2 points from 8.
West Ham fans were famously booking relegation parties, but of course they are such charming chappies
I think the point Greaves made still stands. We weren't even in the Europa League at this stage of last season. Furthermore, if you take our current PL form (last 6 games) we are averaging 2 points per game, whereas this stage of last season our form was 1.3 points per game and it only went down further in the run-in.
The last time we got Champions League football (09-10 season), it was our form in the second half of the season that got us it. So while you may take the view that we are not doing better than last season as the season has not finished yet, you cannot also say we are doing any worse at all.
Expecting us to hit the relegation form that we did last year (0.66 points per game) is, objectively speaking over the past 3 seasons, more unrealistic than expecting us to continue our overall form this season of 1.846 points per game (which is currently higher than last season's overall form of 1.816 points per game).
tl;dr: depends which stats you use, and I should be out right now.
Well said, it depends what stats you use. As you say and I've said it's Y7 who's dishing up unrealistic stats.
ATM we're on target to hit 70 pts, last season we got 69
They are not my unrealistic stats, I didn't make them up, they are fact.
Your comment above about on target for 70 points, is in fact a projected target, not a bonefide stat that has already been attained.
This time last year we were on 53 points, today we are on 48 points having played the same amount of games. That's all I've ever said, forget about where the points were won and lost, the fact remains, this years total (thus far) is not as good as last years, in my book that total is not as good as the total we had this time last year, factual stat.
The only stat that we have for between now and the end of the season is the amount of games left to play, that's it, unless of course you have the ability to see into the future, so given that info, all we can do is Hope that we don't capitulate again, as we did last year. Onwards and upwards.
Fair enough.
That's your opinion, fair enough. The board clearly were worried about the prospect, hence they spent a lot of money, and of course Harry talked about relegation a lot that season.
Also for sure (as H might say) the odds at the time we reached our 8 games 2 points nadir would have have indicated it was from certain that we'd stay up, indeed they would have indicated it was quite likely we would have been relegated. I was certainly fearful of relegation after we reached 2 points from 8.
West Ham fans were famously booking relegation parties, but of course they are such charming chappies
look at the squad we had that season and compare it to the squad we have now and you will notice that most of the key figures then are still at the club now. I don't think anyone was considering that we may get relegated when we only had 2 points from 8 games. Teams sometimes have bad starts, Everton (apart from this season) would consider 2 points from 8 games a good start. It's not usually until the 10th game where people start to have an indication on what sort of season a team will have.
West Ham were booking relegation parties, but I'm sure deep down they knew we would stay up. We would do the same thing I reckon if W****ich only had 2 points from 8 games
Hi BC, fair enough. But as I say, I was considering relegation. Publicly so was Harry, I guarantee the bookies odds were, and clearly the board were by the amount of money they spent that January.
Regarding Everton, I'm afraid that's simply wrong. now way ever in the last 50 years, and probaly the last 100 have they ever considered 2 points from 8 as a good start. Please check your stats on this one
Regarding the squad I'd have to go back and look at the details, but during that two points spell we had Gomes going through a nightmare spell, unfairly forced upon him by playing through injury, so the gulf between that and Lloris is massive. Similarly it wasn't working for Bale at the time, the gulf between Bale then and now is again massive.
I'm not inclined to go through player after player, but if you want to put up the teams from those infamous 8 games I'll happily do so, but just regarding our two best players now they are nothing like the comparable two players then.
Also just the quickest of comparisons reveals that we didn't have Walker JV Naughton Caulker Friedel Lloris Dembele Sandro Parker Ade Dempsey or Holtby, so the team is massively different now.
Da fuq?